v Huddersfield Town (h) - 5/11/22

[Atko's Engine]

10 hours ago, Blue blood said:

It's a fair point they do have time to develop. And I hope they do surprise us. Bereton certainly did after 2 years of showing nothing coming good, so it's possible but it's more the exception than the rule. Maybe we should pack them both off to South America. 

That said it didn't take too much to clock those other guys weren't good, and the signs have been that both these chaps are pretty poor. I think I'd feel more comfortable not naming them so if I saw a definable quality in them, some potential. But I can't think of one thing they are showing which is decent or promising, a strength or an asset if you like. They aren't fast, they don't have presence, they don't strike me as that quick nor predatory or good in the air. Maybe it's a bit early to judge but the early signs imo are very discouraging. And Hirst certainly doesn't look anywhere near worth spending 4 million on. 

Well I guess we'll see more of what they're about tonight because they're almost certain to start, injuries permitting.

I could agree that their initial performances have been a little underwhelming, but I wouldn't go further than that at this stage on such a small sample size. Looking back through their careers, they both know generally where the back of the net is, Hirst has size on his side (plus a dad who knew a thing or 2 about scoring), and Vale has shown good awareness and link-up play IMO. Of course, for both of them it's mainly about goals, like all forwards, so let's give them more opportunities to convert chances & see what that does to their confidence. 

[oldjamfan1]

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

How do you know that he had his salary doubled?

I am not arguing for the sake of it, but I am not having that the club gave him a deal due to loyalty. At that point in time, he was recovering from injury but was on the cusp of first team football but had 6 months (18 including an option) which would have meant that assuming he did recover, that a fantastic player at this level would potentially leave for free as soon as he got fit. It was a calculated gamble that somewhat backfired when he then did his other knee.

He doesn't owe us anything and we don't owe him anything.

We are going round in circles here so I’ll make this my last word on the Dack situation. Nobody is arguing that he got his new deal solely ‘due to loyalty’ but it is undeniable that the club was loyal to him in the unfortunate circumstances he found himself in. It’s arguable that he was ‘on the cusp of first team football’ in any meaningful way when the deal was struck as he had literally only had half an hour in a kids’ game under his belt at that point, but the second injury makes that a moot point now.  The only reason I got involved in this discussion at all is because a poster suggested that "other players would look at the way he has been treated and think twice before signing/re-signing for the Rovers", which I fundamentally disagree with. The only gripe he has is that the manager isn’t picking him often enough. Plenty of other players the world over will have the same complaint.

Edited November 9, 2022 by oldjamfan1

[chaddyrovers]

11 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Kinda disappointed you didn't acknowledge or engage with any of my points 😟 Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you have to agree with me, but some acknowledgement of the points In made would be nice. It feels like you have totally ignored everything I said! 

For example I gave 3 reasons why people are still going on about Dack. Fair enough dispute those reasons and their validity - MB is all about debate - but it doesn't help any discussion to ignore what the other person says. Likewise I say why I think the different natural positions  doesn't prevent a comparison. Again, that's totally ignored. Disagree, sure but at least engage with the points I've made, in what I hope is a respectful manner. 

To clarify I don't want everyone to agree with me (well not much anyway 😉) but to engage with what's actually posted. 

We can debate the Dack issue all day long and we aren't going to agree. I read all your points Blue Blood as always you make a logical and fair case for your viewpoint. I can't argue again your opinion even tho I have a different opinion. 

From my own perspective, I want to move on from debating the Dack issue now myself. 

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

How do you know that he had his salary doubled?

Because when he first signed for us, he wasn't one of top earners like Mulgrew and Graham but given he has signed new contract during his time here and been reported he is one of our biggest earners along Ayala and Kaminski. 

[rigger]

3 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

Well I guess we'll see more of what they're about tonight because they're almost certain to start, injuries permitting.

I could agree that their initial performances have been a little underwhelming, but I wouldn't go further than that at this stage on such a small sample size. Looking back through their careers, they both know generally where the back of the net is, Hirst has size on his side (plus a dad who knew a thing or 2 about scoring), and Vale has shown good awareness and link-up play IMO. Of course, for both of them it's mainly about goals, like all forwards, so let's give them more opportunities to convert chances & see what that does to their confidence. 

For me the stand-out thing that is letting Hirst down, is the fact that he seems to be scared of going in for a challenge. This means he is not involved in any part of the game.

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

We can debate the Dack issue all day long and we aren't going to agree. I read all your points Blue Blood as always you make a logical and fair case for your viewpoint. I can't argue again your opinion even tho I have a different opinion. 

From my own perspective, I want to move on from debating the Dack issue now myself. 

Because when he first signed for us, he wasn't one of top earners like Mulgrew and Graham but given he has signed new contract during his time here and been reported he is one of our biggest earners along Ayala and Kaminski. 

Dack also got a new deal after we regained Championship status. Talk of doubling his wage is purely speculative.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Dack also got a new deal after we regained Championship status. Talk of doubling his wage is purely speculative.

Why is purely speculative? 

[Mattyblue]

Because you haven’t seen his contract, ergo you are speculating.

[chaddyrovers]

reported by 3 or 4 different sources that he is one of our highest earners. 

 

[Mattyblue]

‘Sources’, you haven’t seen them, it’s not a public record, so it’s speculation.

[chaddyrovers]

all sources reporting the same thing would suggest it true. The LT wouldn't report anything that would upset the club and their access to them

[Mattyblue]

‘Suggest it’s true’, there you go!

[roversfan99]

He might be one of our highest earners, but even if he is, it doesn't mean that his wage was doubled.

Edited November 9, 2022 by roversfan99

[DeeCee]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

He might be one of our highest earners, but even if he is, it doesn't mean that his wage was doubled.

You maybe better off using capital letters? 😁