January Transfer Window.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

3 questions

1) Why is it that their crowds are so much higher than ours? They weren't before

2) How much per year do you think they make from those extra fans? Enough to spend millions and millions on new signings every window?

3) How much of that extra money is already eaten up by a higher wage bill and bigger spending over the last few years?

As I've referenced many times before, there's no evidence Rovers are doing anything to combat FFP - one look in the club shop proves that - which suggests to me it either isn't an issue or is a convenient excuse to hide behind

All 3 of those points are fantastic debating points but all 3 show exactly why we can't compete with them. On point two, they also have healthy sales of players, including £18million in summer.

They're a better run club than us, turn over more money, commercially more sound and have a better owner. Nobody is going to doubt that.

What me and others are saying is that in the current circumstances listed above, we simply can not compete financially with them. Surely you understand that? Money in = money out. No money in = no money out. It's not rocket science when it comes to FFP. We should be talking about creating better revenue streams, not talking about spending money we simply do not have.

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, BRFC_Polky said:

Quick look on Twitter and it seems Rotherham might be the club looking at him.

If that's true then hopefully they play him on Saturday.

Job done 😂😂

[Sweaty Gussets]

6 minutes ago, DE. said:

The players running down their contracts is irrelevant as any worthwhile plan will factor contract length into account and ensure arrangements are made to either renew well ahead of time or sell if there's little hope of a renewal and only a year or eighteen months left.

You can't force contracted players out. So it's hardly irrelevant. 

 

7 minutes ago, DE. said:

There will be cases when for whatever reason the player can't be sold or refuses to leave, but we already know that wasn't the case with Rothwell or BBD, and there have been bids in for Lenihan in the past so I am sure we'd have gotten something for him if we'd made him available.

There were rumours of bids for both Nyambe and Lenihan (Sheff Utd) 2/3 years ago, but how do we know at that point the players wanted to leave? And how do we know the bids reflected market value? We don't, so a lot of assumptions are being made. 

What complicates the Rothwell bid is that we were 2nd at the time of the apparent bid by B'mouth and if we had sold him there would have been uproar, especially if we couldn't replace him adequately due to the wage demands of those we were interested in replacing him with. 

With BBD, Venky's set a price in the summer and it wasn't met. Whether that price was realistic, and whether clubs actually bid the £8.6m that was rumoured, we don't know. BBD holds all the cards, he knows running down his contract means he can potentially pick up a bigger wage if no transfer fee is involved. The trouble with BBD is he wasn't worth offering a new contract to until 18 months ago, then he became a global star overnight. I can imagine what the advice was off his agent, and I bet it wasn't sign the Rovers contract!

Since GB/JDT rocked up the club appears to be making a concerted effort to implement the 'sustainable' plan. Players like Buckley, Phillips and Batty signing up long-term is a huge boost. It's been amateur hour at Ewood for 12 long years. I hope we now have a plan in place and the right people in place to implement it. We shall see. 

 

 

[Sweaty Gussets]

4 minutes ago, BRFC_Polky said:

Quick look on Twitter and it seems Rotherham might be the club looking at him.

Yeah, I think their manager has said he wants 4 new players in before they play us.

[arbitro]

I keep seeing FFP mentioned as a reason we can't sign players.

Does it mean Fuckwits From Pune?

[DE.]

1 minute ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

It's been amateur hour at Ewood for 12 long years. I hope we now have a plan in place and the right people in place to implement it. We shall see. 

Irrespective of where we differ in terms of our opinions, this much we can both agree on. Let's hope the JDT/GB duo can finally give us something worthwhile to invest in.

[DE.]

In regards to replacing BBD being a supposedly impossible task, players who have scored more or the same as him this season so far:

Chuba Akpom - bought for £2.75m

Viktor Gyökeres - Undisclosed but considering he was bought by Coventry it couldn't have been much at the time

Óscar Estupiñán - free transfer

Carlton Morris - bought for £2.8m 

Zian Flemming - bought for £1.7m

Iliman Ndiaye - bought for £200k

Ross Stewart - bought for £350k

Jay Rodriguez - youth team graduate

Josh Sargent - bought for £9m

Will Keane - free transfer

Jerry Yates - bought for £200k

Oli McBurnie - bought for £17.5m

Scott Hogan - bought for £2.8m

Wages probably not eye-watering for most of those either (Rodriguez, Sargent and McBurnie aside). So no, I don't buy the idea that BBD is irreplaceable unless we spend a fortune. He actually has the lowest goal conversion of all of the players who have scored or or the same as him at just 17%. To replace him would of course require some decent scouting and recruitment, but that is exactly what Greg is being paid for. He would have known the BBD contract situation as soon as he arrived, so no excuse at this point not to be on top of it. Sourcing a replacement, presuming he will leave either this month or the summer, should have been #1 priority. 

Edited January 9, 2023 by DE.

[superniko]

3 minutes ago, arbitro said:

The re emergence of Rankin-Costello surely negates the need for a new right back. Edun is adequate cover at left back so as far as the full back positions are concerned I think we we are covered. Ditto centre halves. We need a midfield enforcer as I believe Travis is spent and a striker or two.

Exactly this, those two positions are essential.

Prio 1 - CM enforcer. Prio 2 - Striker. Anything after this is a bonus.

Most importantly, they have to be starters, none of this 'filling the squad', 'back up' nonsense. That's not what the January window is about when you're 3rd in the league. I don't care if they're permanent, or loans, as long as they improve the starting 11.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

All 3 of those points are fantastic debating points but all 3 show exactly why we can't compete with them. On point two, they also have healthy sales of players, including £18million in summer.

They're a better run club than us, turn over more money, commercially more sound and have a better owner. Nobody is going to doubt that.

What me and others are saying is that in the current circumstances listed above, we simply can not compete financially with them. Surely you understand that? Money in = money out. No money in = no money out. It's not rocket science when it comes to FFP. We should be talking about creating better revenue streams, not talking about spending money we simply do not have.

@JHRover

For more context, Middlesbrough's latest accounts show a revenue of £26.9million.

Our latest ones showed us at a revenue of £17.1million. So best part of £10million and they're getting even more fans this year than last. And obviously over the cycle of FFP, gives them £40million more wiggle room than us.

EDIT: Sorry tagged wrong person initially

Edited January 9, 2023 by Mellor Rover

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, DE. said:

In regards to replacing BBD being a supposedly impossible task, players who have scored more or the same as him this season so far:

Chuba Akpom - bought for £2.75m

Viktor Gyökeres - Undisclosed but considering he was bought by Coventry it couldn't have been much at the time

Óscar Estupiñán - free transfer

Carlton Morris - bought for £2.8m 

Zian Flemming - bought for £1.7m

Iliman Ndiaye - bought for £200k

Ross Stewart - bought for £350k

Jay Rodriguez - youth team graduate

Josh Sargent - bought for £9m

Will Keane - free transfer

Jerry Yates - bought for £200k

Oli McBurnie - bought for £17.5m

Scott Hogan - bought for £2.8m

Wages probably not eye-watering for most of those either (Rodriguez, Sargent and McBurnie aside). So no, I don't buy the idea that BBD is irreplaceable unless we spend a fortune. He actually has the lowest goal conversion of all of the players who have scored or or the same as him at just 17%. To replace him would of course require some decent scouting and recruitment, but that is exactly what Greg is being paid for. He would have known the BBD contract situation as soon as he arrived, so no excuse at this point not to be on top of it. Sourcing a replacement, presuming he will leave either this month or the summer, should have been #1 priority. 

All of those signings we're gambles though. None had scored goals at this level. Are you saying selling BBD and signing a £350k striker from Scotland who scored 15 goals in 60 games would constitute good business for you? Whilst we're third in the league?

[DE.]

2 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

All of those signings we're gambles though. None had scored goals at this level. Are you saying selling BBD and signing a £350k striker from Scotland who scored 15 goals in 60 games would constitute good business for you? Whilst we're third in the league?

That's exactly what this model demands - it doesn't work if you sell a player for decent money and then spend a fortune replacing him as well. How is that sustainable? You have to take gambles in order to make it work. You can obviously reduce the risk by having a good scouting team in place who understand what to look for. 

Would I do it now, whilst we're 3rd and BBD only has six months left in his contract? No, that's obviously a failure of the supposed model because these decisions should be made well in advance, but BBD can be replaced in a sustainable way - it's just a case of whether our current structure is capable of doing so. 

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Alan Nixon saying we want Cover striker. Cover defender. Somebody like Ebiowei would have been a great wide option too.

 

Down playing how much money we actually to spend. Smart tactic from him. 

care to elaborate? 

I agree with BBD point and that's be my point that selling him would give us less chance of a playoff place 

You would need to sign 2 players to replace him

Venkys won't put any money in whilst we are in a good position.  Like last January.  Now is the time to strengthen.  Its clear they don't want promotion 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Alan Nixon saying we want Cover striker. Cover defender. Somebody like Ebiowei would have been a great wide option too.

 

Down playing how much money we actually to spend. Smart tactic from him. 

care to elaborate? 

I agree with BBD point and that's be my point that selling him would give us less chance of a playoff place 

You would need to sign 2 players to replace him

Lets hope he is talking out of his arse again, we don't need cover, we need to improve the first team.

Same as last winter, in a great place, let the assets run down and sign a few bodies to make up the numbers. Who will be Zeefuik MK2?

Lots of pleading poverty and moaning about money. Little wonder when we piss money down the drain on letting players run their contracts down.

15 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

You can't force contracted players out. So it's hardly irrelevant. 

 

There were rumours of bids for both Nyambe and Lenihan (Sheff Utd) 2/3 years ago, but how do we know at that point the players wanted to leave? And how do we know the bids reflected market value? We don't, so a lot of assumptions are being made. 

What complicates the Rothwell bid is that we were 2nd at the time of the apparent bid by B'mouth and if we had sold him there would have been uproar, especially if we couldn't replace him adequately due to the wage demands of those we were interested in replacing him with. 

With BBD, Venky's set a price in the summer and it wasn't met. Whether that price was realistic, and whether clubs actually bid the £8.6m that was rumoured, we don't know. BBD holds all the cards, he knows running down his contract means he can potentially pick up a bigger wage if no transfer fee is involved. The trouble with BBD is he wasn't worth offering a new contract to until 18 months ago, then he became a global star overnight. I can imagine what the advice was off his agent, and I bet it wasn't sign the Rovers contract!

Since GB/JDT rocked up the club appears to be making a concerted effort to implement the 'sustainable' plan. Players like Buckley, Phillips and Batty signing up long-term is a huge boost. It's been amateur hour at Ewood for 12 long years. I hope we now have a plan in place and the right people in place to implement it. We shall see. 

 

 

Prior to his Chile cap, Brereton had a much improved season where he settled into a regular spot, considering he cost as much as he did, his new deal should have been sorted then, there is no excuse.

Loads of players signed new deals even under Mowbray, and even within his final 12 months. The biggest issue is Venkys and they have cost us over £12m on 2 players.

[J*B]

1 minute ago, roverandout said:

Venkys won't put any money in whilst we are in a good position.  Like last January.  Now is the time to strengthen.  Its clear they don't want promotion 

Someone do the FFP chat again, I can’t do it again. 

[J*B]

11 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

All of those signings we're gambles though. None had scored goals at this level. Are you saying selling BBD and signing a £350k striker from Scotland who scored 15 goals in 60 games would constitute good business for you? Whilst we're third in the league?

If that 350K striker is Ross Stewart 2.0… YES!

[roversfan99]

An excuse that doesn't wash when you actively choose to overrule managers to allow assets to run down.

[Exiled_Rover]

15 minutes ago, superniko said:

Exactly this, those two positions are essential.

Prio 1 - CM enforcer. Prio 2 - Striker. Anything after this is a bonus.

Most importantly, they have to be starters, none of this 'filling the squad', 'back up' nonsense. That's not what the January window is about when you're 3rd in the league. I don't care if they're permanent, or loans, as long as they improve the starting 11.

What is this obsession with a midfield enforcer? We need someone in there that can pass the ball - the reason why the 'playing out from the back' style is so maligned by a good portion of our fanbase is because our CMs don't consistently give the CBs an option. 

We literally need a Tugay. 

[Exiled_Rover]

6 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Venkys won't put any money in whilst we are in a good position.  Like last January.  Now is the time to strengthen.  Its clear they don't want promotion 

They shouldn't have to put money in - honestly the only way this is going to work is if Broughton / JDT / Waggot (gags) generate their own transfer / salary funds through player sales (and perhaps cup runs) and tell the Venkys to keep their hands off. 

Otherwise you're literally at the whim of a bunch of nutters in India. 

[Dreams of 1995]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

An excuse that doesn't wash when you actively choose to overrule managers to allow assets to run down.

It isn't an excuse, it is a fact, as the finances dictate

Okay this is a fault of Venkys making, but we simply do not have the financial wiggle room to spend any substantial amounts of money in January. Not without selling a player

We should have sold BBD and Rothwell last summer, but one could argue that was Rovers gambling they would be the players to bring us promotion

It was Mowbray's death spiral that meant that gamble didn't pay off

Edited January 9, 2023 by Dreams of 1995

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, DE. said:

That's exactly what this model demands - it doesn't work if you sell a player for decent money and then spend a fortune replacing him as well. How is that sustainable? You have to take gambles in order to make it work. You can obviously reduce the risk by having a good scouting team in place who understand what to look for. 

Would I do it now, whilst we're 3rd and BBD only has six months left in his contract? No, that's obviously a failure of the supposed model because these decisions should be made well in advance, but BBD can be replaced in a sustainable way - it's just a case of whether our current structure is capable of doing so. 

I'd agree with that. But right now, it doesn't make sense to sell.

[RoversClitheroe]

The Re-emergence of JRC is mental, he actually looks quite good now.

What a difference a good coach can make.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 minute ago, RoversClitheroe said:

The Re-emergence of JRC is mental, he actually looks quite good now.

What a difference a good coach can make.

As I said in the Norwich game chat, quite a few of our players have come on leaps and bounds under JDT and Remy Reijnierse.

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

It isn't an excuse, it is a fact, as the finances dictate

Okay this is a fault of Venkys making, but we simply do not have the financial wiggle room to spend any substantial amounts of money in January. Not without selling a player

We should have sold BBD and Rothwell last summer, but one could argue that was Rovers gambling they would be the players to bring us promotion

It was Mowbray's death spiral that meant that gamble didn't pay off

The constant underpinning issue is how Venkys run the club though, that removes basically any scope to bring players in.

[DE.]

Just now, Mellor Rover said:

I'd agree with that. But right now, it doesn't make sense to sell.

Probably not. The only way it would make sense to sell is if we received a crazy bid (£15m+) and could invest at least 50% of that in the fee/wages of the replacement, who would have at this point needed to have been scouted and analysed to a point where we'd be confident of a quick sale and immediate impact.

Chances of the above happening, however, are close to zero you'd think, so at this point we might as well keep BBD. For the future though we simply can't let situations like this keep happening if we want to have a sustainable long-term transfer model.

[TheRevAshton]

Edited January 9, 2023 by TheRevAshton