January Transfer Window.

[Sweaty Gussets]

1 minute ago, jim mk2 said:

Bolton are averaging more than 18,000 this season - bigger town but that's with United and City next door

So as a club what are they doing right that we're doing wrong? 

Season Ticket prices.

[BankEnd Rover]

[Sweaty Gussets]

Just now, BankEnd Rover said:

I doubt we can compete with Watford on wages. 

[Mattyblue]

Just now, Sweaty Gussets said:

I doubt we can compete with Watford on wages. 

‘Siri, sum up the Venky reign in a sentence’.

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Rovers have signed quite  few of their 'assets' to long term contracts since GB/JDT came into the club. Surely that's something to be applauded. 

BBD was never going to sign a contract here. He's been offered one and turned it down.

If the club had sold him last January then there would have been uproar on here and elsewhere that we were selling our only goalscorer when we were 2nd in the league. 

Let's hope JDT/GB are now looking 1 or 2 years ahead and making sure when we do sell someone for a lot of money we have already identified replacements.

And Venky's need to leave them to it and let the football people decide the transfer strategy. I'm hoping that is what has now changed with the appointment of a DoF.  

Quite a few assets have been signed on long term contracts even before Broughton and Tomasson. The likes of Kaminski, Travis, Dolan, Scott Wharton, Dack, Gallagher, Rankin Costello etc all signed deals in the last year or two, just as Buckley, Adam Wharton and Phillips have more recently.

Also, the "fans would have been in uproar" line is a load of rubbish. A club shouldn't be operating like that, whenever a big player leaves there will be sadness but so what?

He didn't even need to be sold in January, Rothwell did and should have been, especially when the manager had plans on reinvesting that but Brereton could have gone in that summer window for close to 8 figures. The timing would have been great to really help with the supposed start of the rebuild ahead of a new era.

[BankEnd Rover]

3 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

I doubt we can compete with Watford on wages. 

I would say say we’re probably 4th on his list of choice.

Not really going to loose too much sleep as for finishing off this season well, we need ST & CM positions filled….CD isn’t really priority. We have summer to sort that.

Edited January 18, 2023 by BankEnd Rover

[martonrover]

3 minutes ago, BankEnd Rover said:

Not sure how four clubs can all be, “in a strong position”, to sign one player.

Still, I’m sure Gregg’s PowerPoint presentation about “the project” will win him over 😐

[Sweaty Gussets]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Quite a few assets have been signed on long term contracts even before Broughton and Tomasson. The likes of Kaminski, Travis, Dolan, Scott Wharton, Dack, Gallagher, Rankin Costello etc all signed deals in the last year or two, just as Buckley, Adam Wharton and Phillips have more recently.

Also, the "fans would have been in uproar" line is a load of rubbish. A club shouldn't be operating like that, whenever a big player leaves there will be sadness but so what?

He didn't even need to be sold in January, Rothwell did and should have been, especially when the manager had plans on reinvesting that but Brereton could have gone in that summer window for close to 8 figures. The timing would have been great to really help with the supposed start of the rebuild ahead of a new era.

So you accept we've been pro-active in signing players up to long term contracts in recent years? 

Yeah, there would have just been 'sadness' if BBD had been sold last Jan when we were in the running for promotion. FFS! Utter horseshit and you know it. There would have been a meltdown. 

BBD could have gone in the summer if BBD wanted to go. BBD is now in a much stronger position to pick his favoured club. 

You see things in black and white, in absolutes, and ignore things that don't fit what you're trying to argue. 

[Mattyblue]

Too right there would have been uproar. But it ultimately doesn’t matter if fans are upset over a sale. If that’s the model, that’s the model.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Sweaty Gussets]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Too right there would have been uproar. But it ultimately doesn’t matter if fans are upset. If that’s the model, that’s the model.

But it's a simplistic view of the 'model'. 

'Don't sell your only goalscorer for £8m when without him there's no chance of getting to the Prem and collecting £150m just for getting dicked every week' should be on page 1 of the 'model' handbook. 

[Mattyblue]

Would I have sold him last January? No, though a half arsed Rothwell should have been let go, ridiculous meddling from the owners that one. But if a deal could’ve been done in the summer (all parties including BBD himself willing), then it should have been done.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Wheelton Blue]

The supposed model is all about effective succession planning.

Buy low, sell high, and replace ad infinitum.

We're light years away from this.

 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Sweaty Gussets said:

So you accept we've been pro-active in signing players up to long term contracts in recent years? 

Yeah, there would have just been 'sadness' if BBD had been sold last Jan when we were in the running for promotion. FFS! Utter horseshit and you know it. There would have been a meltdown. 

BBD could have gone in the summer if BBD wanted to go. BBD is now in a much stronger position to pick his favoured club. 

You see things in black and white, in absolutes, and ignore things that don't fit what you're trying to argue. 

We have signed a lot of players on new contracts, it has been implied that the likes of Phillips/Buckley/Wharton proves a new dawn under Broughton and Tomasson, and that these Brereton/Rothwell issues will not be replicated. Nonsense. Until the owners stop intervening, they won't.

I have never once suggested that Brereton should have been sold in January, in fact I specifically said that the summer was the time. We rejected numerous bids for him including from Nice and Everton, that was the time to sell, to help really fund the start of the Tomasson era and at the last chance where we could have got a substantial sum. We turned down bids, rejected none so Brereton had little choice. Might he have talked to both teams and decided against either? Small chance I suppose, but very doubtful if presented with 2 decent pay rises and either a big French club in a European competition with some big name players or a Premier League club.

Rothwell should have been sold in January with all of the money reinvested, wouldn't have even had to cost Venkys to be able to give the manager a decent budget to improve us. Brereton should have gone in the summer. Had we accepted both bids for both players and neither had chosen to move, then the same argument wouldn't apply, but we turned down everything so the grievance IMO is more than a fair one.

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

But it's a simplistic view of the 'model'. 

'Don't sell your only goalscorer for £8m when without him there's no chance of getting to the Prem and collecting £150m just for getting dicked every week' should be on page 1 of the 'model' handbook. 

That £8m (the bid was reported at a bit more, but say £8m) is a very sizeable amount at this level to aid the current season and also the long term. For context, we spent maybe £4.5m in the summer, £0.5m last summer and £1m the summer before, so it is more than 3 seasons worth of budgets.

If there is no consideration of any reinvestment then that is an even bigger bad reflection on the owners. Buying, profiting, reinvesting should be a regular thing.

[Sweaty Gussets]

12 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Would I have sold him last January, no. But if a deal could’ve been done in the summer (all parties including BBD himself willing), then it should have been done.

Which is where the planning comes in. Hirst ('R Shit' anag) being No1 target suggests neither JDT/GB had a fucking clue who to sign who was any good. It was all a bit rushed. 

So, again it's not black and white, and without BBD's goals this season we could be at the other end of the table. 

We lost BBD when we didn't offer him a contract prior to him becoming a South American superstar. After that it was game over. 

 I'm hopeful that GB will not let assets like BBD slip away in future. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Sweaty Gussets

[Sweaty Gussets]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We have signed a lot of players on new contracts, it has been implied that the likes of Phillips/Buckley/Wharton proves a new dawn under Broughton and Tomasson, and that these Brereton/Rothwell issues will not be replicated. Nonsense. Until the owners stop intervening, they won't.

I've made the point repeatedly that GB has to be left in charge of transfer decisions if the model is to work. And you have no idea how that will pan out. So 'nonsense' right back at you. 

 

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

That £8m (the bid was reported at a bit more, but say £8m) is a very sizeable amount at this level to aid the current season and also the long term. For context, we spent maybe £4.5m in the summer, £0.5m last summer and £1m the summer before, so it is more than 3 seasons worth of budgets.

If there is no consideration of any reinvestment then that is an even bigger bad reflection on the owners. Buying, profiting, reinvesting should be a regular thing.

Again, you're ignoring the context. BBD said he was staying. You can't force someone out who is going to run down his contract and get a big deal elsewhere on a free. 

Stop seeing everything in black an white. 

[Mattyblue]

I’m giving GB the benefit of the doubt, good luck to him, but BBD has to be the last we see of the shambles of The Model mk1. Alas, with these unpredictable owners to report to then he’s going to need it.

 

[Sweaty Gussets]

3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I’m giving GB the benefit of the doubt, good luck to him, but BBD has to be the last we see of the shambles of The Model mk1. Alas, with these unpredictable owners to report to then he’s going to need it.

 

Agreed. 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

I've made the point repeatedly that GB has to be left in charge of transfer decisions if the model is to work. And you have no idea how that will pan out. So 'nonsense' right back at you. 

 

Again, you're ignoring the context. BBD said he was staying. You can't force someone out who is going to run down his contract and get a big deal elsewhere on a free. 

Stop seeing everything in black an white. 

He seems a decent guy and not someone who would kick up a fuss, but we didn't entertain the offers which I suspect he would have been very interested to at least hear out. Had we accepted bids and he had turned them down, then a different situation, but we priced everyone out with an unrealistic price that has left us to cut our nose off to spite our face.

The comments about people professing that the new deals are a sign of a new dawn and no more contractual mishaps was not aimed at you specifically. As you say, it is dependant on the owners staying away from the decision making. I can't see any reason to be optimistic that the owners will suddenly change.

[roverandout]

No one is blaming Broughton for this.  The blame lies with Mowbray for only thinking of lining his own pockets

[bluebruce]

38 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

That £8m (the bid was reported at a bit more, but say £8m) is a very sizeable amount at this level to aid the current season and also the long term. For context, we spent maybe £4.5m in the summer, £0.5m last summer and £1m the summer before, so it is more than 3 seasons worth of budgets.

If there is no consideration of any reinvestment then that is an even bigger bad reflection on the owners. Buying, profiting, reinvesting should be a regular thing.

It's probably only fair to point out that you're looking at transfer fees only. When wages, agent fees and signing on fees are added in, especially over contract length, an £8 million influx wouldn't pay for those 3 seasons worth of budgets. Brereton was reported to be on not all that much (the famous flex), so his lost wages won't cover too much more.

[JHRover]

People saying that Diaz would never have signed a new contract are wrong.

He joined the Club in 2018 as a teenager. By summer 2021 he was entering the final year of his original deal, albeit with the 'safety net' of an extra 12 months option in the Clubs' favour which has kept him here until summer 2023. 

In the summer of 2021 he was not the world famous Chilean international that he is now. If the club had been proactive it would have dealt with the situation then, as the end of his initial deal was within 12 months. 

It didn't, there's little evidence the Club did anything at all about new contracts for anyone around that time, which is why we ended up in a mess. The excuse of course will be 'covid'. Great excuse which covers pretty much everything but even if it is a genuine reason it doesn't actually change anything does it? 

The 12 month extension thing has Waggott's fingerprints all over it, and he probably thought he was the dogs bollocks inserting those clauses into their deals and activating them at the 11th hour, forcing those players to remain for an extra 12 months on the same terms. But as ever what seems clever at the time and saves a few quid in the short term has longer term damaging consequences. You only have to look at his approach to ticketing and attendances to see that.

Noses out of joint and quite rightly so for players who would have been happy to talk about staying long term, were shunned by the Club until the last minute, were compelled to stay through the year option and then whatever 'improved' offers came were far too late and at a point when other clubs were taking an interest and letting them know how much more they could make elsewhere.

Don't blame Diaz one bit, a move to Spain, 5 year deal, big money, he's sorted and good luck to him. 

Ultimately I don't blame any of the players - it's happened too often for any one player to be accused of being a problem or rogue element - as I've been saying for months the only logical conclusion to reach is that the problem is on the club's side.

So let's banish this suggestion that the Club could never have kept him. They could, if they looked beyond the next 12 months and were proactive in their approach. 

Of course it is encouraging and positive that quite a few of our current lot have recently signed new deals since Broughton arrived. But this needs to be put into some perspective. With due respect the sort of money going out on the likes of Ash Phillips, Dolan, Adam Wharton, even Travis and Buckley, will be much much less than the figures required for the Diaz, Rothwell, Lenihan deals. So whilst it suggests an element of being proactive and planning long term I'm not particularly confident it heralds a new approach on finances, and we could easily hit a similar issue with these players should rival clubs come a sniffing and we aren't willing or able to pay them the going rate for the Championship.

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, roverandout said:

No one is blaming Broughton for this.  The blame lies with Mowbray for only thinking of lining his own pockets

What utter rubbish. Just unfounded, agenda driven vitriol.

The blame lies in India.

2 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

It's probably only fair to point out that you're looking at transfer fees only. When wages, agent fees and signing on fees are added in, especially over contract length, an £8 million influx wouldn't pay for those 3 seasons worth of budgets. Brereton was reported to be on not all that much (the famous flex), so his lost wages won't cover too much more.

Agreed, but just to add context as to how the £12m we have missed out on is such a sizeable sum for us purely on transfer fees, and how it can't be dismissed as a wise choice.

With that £8m and with any big sale, there is no expectation for the whole sum to be reinvested, just a decent chunk, or even use the £8m and you keep the £4m you planned to invest to help with sustainability and covering unforeseen costs like you mention.

[rigger]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Bolton are averaging more than 18,000 this season - bigger town but that's with United and City next door

So as a club what are they doing right that we're doing wrong? 

everything

[Dolly blue]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Bolton are averaging more than 18,000 this season - bigger town but that's with United and City next door

So as a club what are they doing right that we're doing wrong? 

..A good friend is a life long Wanderers fan…he’s been through the mill in recent times but..now…whether that get promotion or not ..he says the place is rocking.

WHY …they sell season tickets at affordable prices, they are locally “ owned” , their board allow their fan base monthly imput, they are in regular contact with season ticket holders ( birthday cards etc ) …their playing staff play for the shirt …they are on peanuts of wages …… the supporters welcome the transparency and they are enjoying the ride …when did we at Ewood last say that ?

I despise our management…utter contempt is all I have ….

Edited January 18, 2023 by Dolly blue