January Transfer Window.

[SBlue]

5 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Sharpe says D-Day is Thursday, today already out here

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/23293224.blackburn-rovers-make-submissions-efl-lewis-obrien-deal/

Nixon said Friday. 

Bet we get confused and miss the deadline.

[Bbrovers2288]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

Sorry I'm just gonna be blunt- I'm not missing the point, you don't have one that stands up. We can do early business whether there is or isn't a world cup break. We just don't.

That’s fine I will be blunt back, my bloody point is that we don’t do business early when we should be. Every year we are scrambling about waiting for loans, it’s a sad indication of where we are as a club.

the World Cup was merely mentioned as it was a freebie two weeks to get everyone working on recruitment , if your boss gives you an additional two weeks for a project you should probably produce better than previous otherwise you have been sitting with your thumb up your hoop when you should’ve been working 

[47er]

This shambles has exposed the chaos at the heart of our club like no single episode in the last few years. If we can't get even the clerical work right with the potential to wreck the Transfer Window and, indeed, the season, what chance have we got of ever being a viable club again?

This is down to Venkys. They own the club but apparently it leave to others they've appointed to carry out the day to day responsibilities but where is the accountability?

Make no mistake, heads should roll over this fiasco. There is simply no tenable excuse.

I'm not holding my breath, I wonder if Venkys will even know or care.

Utterly sickening, why do we bother?

[R0verb0y]

13 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Lol. Me too.

We used to go to Ireland regularly to see the in laws. My kids would all get up and leave the room, as soon as one of the relatives asked me about Rovers.

Think Michael Douglas in Falling Down!

Can't imagine that of you, Lennie!!😉

[Atko's Engine]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

No, you hang on, Im not going to post again on this, but you've completely changed the goalposts with your post above.

In your original post , you correctly pointed out how imperative it was to serve Court proceedings  in the manner prescribed by  regulations, then, essentially said (I'm paraphrasing slightly) that it looked as though an employee at the Club might have committed an administrative error therefore it didn't appear the Club were at fault.

When I pointed out that that was absolute nonsense you grudgingly agreed with me and admitted the Club were vicariously liable.

If someone at your firm cocked up the service of Court proceedings with the result a Client's claim was struck out you wouldn't dream of trying to make out it wasn't your firm's fault so I don't know why you're trying to make out it's not Rovers fault in this instance.

As for leaving dealings until the last minute, we can debate until the cows come home whether that's a desirable thing or not but no matter how late negotiations take place we know the regulations and the time deals have to be done by and should know exactly  what paperwork has to be filed for each different type of deal so failure to comply with that is either negligent or a deliberate omission.

Why on earth would I say that an error by a club employee is not the fault of the club on a vicarious basis?? That's not a legal concept, it's common sense. 

My point, which you can't seem to grasp, was that the last-minute nature of the deal was not the club's fault. There's been no shifting goalposts on my part. I really can't see what your difficulty is in accepting that when it's there in black and white on my post, other than it being a reluctance to accept that you misunderstood my post and refusal to accept that you went in at the deep end unnecessarily. 

Anyway, night, let's hope we get the news we want in a few hours time and not the news we fear.

[chaddyrovers]

45 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its pretty simple. We went into the window needing whatever you believed, how does that compare to what we have got? 

Only Sorba Thomas would be a terrible window. O'Brien would be a great addition in a position I felt was crucial but you didnt, but it seems that we have fucked up the deal anyway. If he joins, the window IMO goes from terrible to ok whilst missing a key priority, a striker.

Like I said yesterday in my post that 

"Simple not good enough if O'Brien didn't get done if these rumours are true. If we didn't a sign striker and O'Brien then it's not good enough and I would like to know why. 

I am concerned that we haven't got a striker in during this window. A proven number 9 striker is what we need if we to stay in the playoff hunt. I would like to know the reason why we didn't get a striker in and I will await the Gregg Broughton's interview and what actually happened as I want to know the fact behind it. We should have got one in no question asked"

45 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If we had a great window, you would never question if we were lucky, yet if we have a rubbish one you start defending it basee on external factors.

The fact that 2 clubs went back on deals we have agreed with them isn't Rovers fault which I believe 2 days you actually agreed now you change your opinion again. 

45 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If the O'Brien deal was fucked up, many will lose faith in Broughton and I wouldnt be the only one in questioning his role in our future. Would you lose confidence in him?

Reading from Nixon's article and Sharpe's article plus what a poster has said this seems an administrative problem which would be our club secretary Iain Slivester area to fill the correct paperwork so don't know how you blame Broughton for it which that stuff isn't his remit. 

Yes Broughton has the responsibility for the lack of striker signing but I would like to hear the full circumstances and what actually happened during the transfer window first before any sort of verdict

[Ghost7]

Venky’s won’t know a thing or when the next game is, or care.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

Why on earth would I say that an error by a club employee is not the fault of the club on a vicarious basis?? That's not a legal concept, it's common sense. 

My point, which you can't seem to grasp, was that the last-minute nature of the deal was not the club's fault. There's been no shifting goalposts on my part. I really can't see what your difficulty is in accepting that when it's there in black and white on my post, other than it being a reluctance to accept that you misunderstood my post and refusal to accept that you went in at the deep end unnecessarily. 

Anyway, night, let's hope we get the news we want in a few hours time and not the news we fear.

Blimey, it might not be the Club's fault that it isn't possible to start negotiations until a relatively late stage in any given case, but if they do make the decision to start those negotiations, they know the rules and that it is still incumbent on them to get the deal done in time with all the correct paperwork accompanying it.

[bluebruce]

28 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

That’s fine I will be blunt back, my bloody point is that we don’t do business early when we should be. Every year we are scrambling about waiting for loans, it’s a sad indication of where we are as a club.

the World Cup was merely mentioned as it was a freebie two weeks to get everyone working on recruitment , if your boss gives you an additional two weeks for a project you should probably produce better than previous otherwise you have been sitting with your thumb up your hoop when you should’ve been working 

It wasn't a freebie or additional two weeks. It was two weeks like any other two weeks. You keep raising this World Cup thing and acting like it made any difference whatsoever to our recruitment prospects. It didn't and you've been unable to remotely prove it did. And we both agree we should be more on the ball with doing our business and move faster. So on the first point, I can't be bothered with your pointless intransigence anymore, and on the second we agree, so we'll just end this discussion here.

[yankfan]

5 hours ago, Ghost7 said:

Venky’s won’t know a thing or when the next game is, or care.

Probably excited about the prospect of connan o Brian joining the side 

[yankfan]

5 hours ago, bluebruce said:

It wasn't a freebie or additional two weeks. It was two weeks like any other two weeks. You keep raising this World Cup thing and acting like it made any difference whatsoever to our recruitment prospects. It didn't and you've been unable to remotely prove it did. And we both agree we should be more on the ball with doing our business and move faster. So on the first point, I can't be bothered with your pointless intransigence anymore, and on the second we agree, so we'll just end this discussion here.

We need to face the facts that most of our business hinges on premier league clubs deciding players are excess. That often happens after they’ve Ben knocked out of various cups where minutes are no longer available to fringe players. 
 

It’s mental to think we can just loan any player when we’re ready. We’re not coming in with bids that make a premier side have to consider our offer. The only sides we can boss are league one or two, but those players are unproven. If we want the lower level premier players we have to wait for those clubs…then hope the player wants to step down a level…then find a way to cover their wage. 
 

Until we’re a premier league side again our business will always be late. Or in this case too late. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by yankfan

[Paul Mani]

7 hours ago, Miller11 said:

I’m late to this but…

considering what happened between 1992 and 2010, our hardcore number should’ve grown. And it did. In 99/00 and 00/01 we were nearly at a 20k average in the second tier. 

The hardcore aren’t the same individuals for the most part. Someone who attended their first match as a 10 year old in 1992, and caught the bug is 40 now. A 40 year old who was one of the 8,000 in the early 70s likely won’t be around.

If we accept a percentage of all attending fans will be fanatical, with a period of success, and consistently higher attendances throughout the 90s our fanbase should’ve grown to the point where the hardcore wasn’t slipping back to pre-Jack levels.

Venky’s are responsible for the absolute decimation of our crowds. The only thing comparable to the effect they have had is the drop off and widespread falling out with the club that occurred as a result of the 1960 cup final. That took nearly 30 years to turn around.

I worry that phrases like “natural level” or “core support” give a pass, or at least make it easier for Waggott and co. to shrug their shoulders and not bother trying to reverse the trend.

I think you’re mistaken. If you look across the board, fan attendance for any club is dependant on several factors. Including, primarily - population size, economic profile, fan/club culture and success.

The standard ‘8000’s’ in the 70’s & 80’s were artificially modified by Jack Walker in the 90’s through winning, creating aspiration and improved culture (I’m 41, it was without doubt the greatest time to be alive). 25-28k supporters at Ewood was Uncle Jack wringing every bit of feel good factor out of a working class town. Incidentally, the last time we had 25k+ at Ewood was final day of League 1 season we won promotion because that is our potential when things are going well.

It is true that Venkys have decimated that feel good factor but in truth the decline on attendances started long before they turned because it was unsustainable unless Jack kept pumping millions in and we kept winning!   Money and success is the magic sauce.

So it doesn’t surprise me that we’re down to 10-12k fans. Imo that is our base level based on the above. The job of Waggott and co is to inspire the area to want to watch us play. I think the clubs focus on the Youth lads and high profile work in engaging ethnic minorities is them trying to create a buzz and open up new markets because they have no money. The problem (aside from the money) is that leaders must inspire, they must be great orators and be trusted. Waggott is none of those things…

For me, the 10-12k is our base level including population growth since 70’s & 80’s. The biggest problem is that the leadership is poor and we haven’t been any good for 25+ years.

[OldEwoodBlue]

3 day Deadline Day.

At least we got our money's worth.

[Mattyblue]

30 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

 

It is true that Venkys have decimated that feel good factor but in truth the decline on attendances started long before they turned because it was unsustainable unless Jack kept pumping millions in and we kept winning!   Money and success is the magic sauce.

For me, the 10-12k is our base level including population growth since 70’s & 80’s. The biggest problem is that the leadership is poor and we haven’t been any good for 25+ years.

In decline long before they came? Totally wrong. They turned up here in 2010. In the 2009/2010 season we had 20,000 ST holders and an average crowd of 26,000.

No good for 25+ years?! We certainly were ‘good’ up to them turning up. Cup wins, multiple semi finals, top 6 finishes, European campaigns, quality footballers throughout the team. An established PL club was more than good enough for most fans of Blackburn Rovers.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Mattyblue

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

I think you’re mistaken. If you look across the board, fan attendance for any club is dependant on several factors. Including, primarily - population size, economic profile, fan/club culture and success.

The standard ‘8000’s’ in the 70’s & 80’s were artificially modified by Jack Walker in the 90’s through winning, creating aspiration and improved culture (I’m 41, it was without doubt the greatest time to be alive). 25-28k supporters at Ewood was Uncle Jack wringing every bit of feel good factor out of a working class town. Incidentally, the last time we had 25k+ at Ewood was final day of League 1 season we won promotion because that is our potential when things are going well.

It is true that Venkys have decimated that feel good factor but in truth the decline on attendances started long before they turned because it was unsustainable unless Jack kept pumping millions in and we kept winning!   Money and success is the magic sauce.

So it doesn’t surprise me that we’re down to 10-12k fans. Imo that is our base level based on the above. The job of Waggott and co is to inspire the area to want to watch us play. I think the clubs focus on the Youth lads and high profile work in engaging ethnic minorities is them trying to create a buzz and open up new markets because they have no money. The problem (aside from the money) is that leaders must inspire, they must be great orators and be trusted. Waggott is none of those things…

For me, the 10-12k is our base level including population growth since 70’s & 80’s. The biggest problem is that the leadership is poor and we haven’t been any good for 25+ years.

The part that gave a like for is the last paragraph.  Shitshow leadership 

[superniko]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

I think you’re mistaken. If you look across the board, fan attendance for any club is dependant on several factors. Including, primarily - population size, economic profile, fan/club culture and success.

The standard ‘8000’s’ in the 70’s & 80’s were artificially modified by Jack Walker in the 90’s through winning, creating aspiration and improved culture (I’m 41, it was without doubt the greatest time to be alive). 25-28k supporters at Ewood was Uncle Jack wringing every bit of feel good factor out of a working class town. Incidentally, the last time we had 25k+ at Ewood was final day of League 1 season we won promotion because that is our potential when things are going well.

It is true that Venkys have decimated that feel good factor but in truth the decline on attendances started long before they turned because it was unsustainable unless Jack kept pumping millions in and we kept winning!   Money and success is the magic sauce.

So it doesn’t surprise me that we’re down to 10-12k fans. Imo that is our base level based on the above. The job of Waggott and co is to inspire the area to want to watch us play. I think the clubs focus on the Youth lads and high profile work in engaging ethnic minorities is them trying to create a buzz and open up new markets because they have no money. The problem (aside from the money) is that leaders must inspire, they must be great orators and be trusted. Waggott is none of those things…

For me, the 10-12k is our base level including population growth since 70’s & 80’s. The biggest problem is that the leadership is poor and we haven’t been any good for 25+ years.

Over 25k average in 2010 under Alladyce finishing 15th, about 4k up on finishing 6th under Hughes 2006 and 2007

Common factor was the ‘Fortress Ewood’ campaign with £199 season tickets.

As you say about leadership - 10k-12k is only our ‘base level’ whilst we have our highest ever priced season tickets, have shambolic and embarrassing transfer windows, have uninterested owners, do nothing to improve it in community, local towns and local schools. 
But yeah, we should all be happy with that at little Blackburn Rovers. 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by superniko

[JHRover]

Why do people so often want to compare to the 80s and use that era as some sort of benchmark? Why not the 50s or 60s instead?

If you are happy to wind the clock back 30-40 years to a byegone era in football why not 50-60 years?

We've operated for almost 150 years. Seems odd that so many obsess about what gates we got in one decade of that time, which happens to have been the nadir in our history and English football.

Little wonder those at Ewood are the way they are if they adopt a similar attitude. 

[bigbrandjohn]

Well we broke 300 with all this excitement.  Looks like the surface is ripe for spin. We are going to need it today. Anyone for oranges? 

[Gav]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

 

For me, the 10-12k is our base level including population growth since 70’s & 80’s. The biggest problem is that the leadership is poor and we haven’t been any good for 25+ years.

I assume you were in a rush when you wrote that and added a 1 instead or a 2.

25yrs ago we were playing European football against Lyon under the stewardship of a future England manager and I could go on, but Matty has eloquently beaten me to it. 

[Atko's Engine]

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Blimey, it might not be the Club's fault that it isn't possible to start negotiations until a relatively late stage in any given case, but if they do make the decision to start those negotiations, they know the rules and that it is still incumbent on them to get the deal done in time with all the correct paperwork accompanying it.

Absolutely.  Sounds like this Sylvestor fella might have some awkward questions to answer.

[ben_the_beast]

Regardless of whether this does or does not go through, when the club finally decide to communicate we need a proper break down of exactly what has happened. 

I don't like hanging people out to dry but if GB wants to retain any respect, names are needed, exactly what they didn't do and some kind of evidence this will be learned from. I don't necessarily want to see heads roll, but accountability is the bare minimum. 

[BigBar]

8 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

Nixon said Friday. 

Bet we get confused and miss the deadline.

Ah Thursday, Friday, 11pm, 12am, all the one really...who is paying attention anyway, get to it when we get to it. Everyone just needs to relax, the boys have got it all under control 👍👌

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

In decline long before they came? Totally wrong. They turned up here in 2010. In the 2009/2010 season we had 20,000 ST holders and an average crowd of 26,000.

No good for 25+ years?! We certainly were ‘good’ up to them turning up. Cup wins, multiple semi finals, top 6 finishes, European campaigns, quality footballers throughout the team. An established PL club was more than good enough for most fans of Blackburn Rovers.

Just opinions, my point was that attendances were on a downward trajectory from peak (1995), albeit small drop offs, crowds were lessening.

In respect of being good I meant a top team. We’d had flashes of good teams (Early Souness and Hughes era) but most of the rest was average. From a fab attraction and entertainment pov we’ve been weak for 25+ years imo. Especially when considering the success of Northern teams during that period. 

[Paul Mani]

16 minutes ago, Gav said:

I assume you were in a rush when you wrote that and added a 1 instead or a 2.

25yrs ago we were playing European football against Lyon under the stewardship of a future England manager and I could go on, but Matty has eloquently beaten me to it. 

I’m talking from a fan attraction pov. Maybe the term should be…we haven’t been sexy enough for 25+ years! 

[superniko]

2 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Just opinions, my point was that attendances were on a downward trajectory from peak (1995), albeit small drop offs, crowds were lessening.

In respect of being good I meant a top team. We’d had flashes of good teams (Early Souness and Hughes era) but most of the rest was average. From a fab attraction and entertainment pov we’ve been weak for 25+ years imo. Especially when considering the success of Northern teams during that period. 

Absolutely baffling that you weren’t entertained when we

1) won promotion

2) won the league cup

3) finished 6th multiple times in the league and

4) played in multiple European competitions. 
 

That 25 years should be 15 years. We were entertaining in the 00s. From the Duff/Jansen/Dunn team to the Bentley, Bellamy, Santa Cruz, McCarthy team.