January Transfer Window.

[CambridgeRover]

20 minutes ago, Andy said:

There is absolutely nothing more than sheer good thinking to suggest that this would happen.

Things could be a LOT worse than what they are for us, right now.

Blackpool and bolton seemed to have done fine. Bolton got 24k attendence at home recently. We will never under venkys. Would rather start again then keep these clowns in charge

[BankEnd Rover]

16 minutes ago, Boroblue said:

Mine geldhart in Gallagher out to Sunderland 

porteous in Ayala out spent half the time her injured whether true or not and I’m sick of his killer passes

vetlesen in Morton back to Liverpool he can get his education there rather than slowing our play down and not tackling. 

That would be dreamland.

[Boroblue]

To continue this have we now written off the Mowbray journey. Yet the end point is still the same promotion. So after 5 years of Mowbrays journey we need another 4 years. So in 5 years of Mowbray we have to all intents and purposes achieved nothing. What makes anyone thinks this journey is better than the last one because the football and results look surprisingly similar. 
We don’t need a project we need experienced players with talent. To shorten the project let’s say this window. I dont want deferred gratification I want it now

[Ewood Ace]

1 hour ago, briansol said:

Funny you mention Brentford. They spent 6 seasons in the Championship, improving year by year before getting promoted. The way they did it was with a strategy and "project". They put in place great scouting which was highly data-driven and bought young talent they could improve and sell-on. Which they did with a number of players being sold for 9m+ over the years like Mephan, Konsa, Gray, Hogan, Benharama and Watkins. They had a lot of turnover as they don't have an academy, and also bought quite of lot duds, but they were offset with the gems they uncovered.

Another success was that any manager they hired had to adapt to their structure and setup and not to another reboot of style and players. 

 

The Brentford model should sound a bit familiar to what we are trying to achieve here. With a sporting director, great academy and using player trading to up the level of the squad. It might take time, but probably the only long-term solution for the club. 

 

Brentford are a club owned by a very good intelligent businessman in Matthew Benham. During their 6 seasons in the Championship they made over £150 Million in player sales. This is our fifth season back in the Championship and we have made around £15 Million in player sales, with only Raya and Armstrong sold for substantial fees. Bretford were selling 2-3 first team players a season in order to reinvest and refresh their squad. Lenihan, Rothwell, Nyambe & Brereton would not have all walked away from Brentford for nothing. And you look at our squad that will be left in the summer there is nothing there that would net say £8-£10 Million, I'm not even sure there is anything there that would get fetch even £5 Million. 

Us and Brentford are no in no way comparable. A Premier League club we are comparable with is Everton a once proud club brought low by hopeless owners who have wasted hundreds of millions, hired dud after dud to occupy the dug out and are now only able to attract players who are either cheap free or on loan.

[Boroblue]

1 hour ago, den said:

How many championship clubs have owners who’ve put in around £250m over 13 years and are still doing it?

I doubt many but how many owners bought a self sustaining club at the upper end of the premiership and delivered them into division 1 in an astounding short period of time. They never needed to if they’d have managed the club professionally. I don’t thank them it’s all they deserve and I wish it was twice that amount. There is not a single good thing they have done for Rovers since they rocked up

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, callumrovers said:

Bang on the money.

This is the only solution for the club.

It would be......but then why does Morton play every minute of every game?

That would appear to be directly contrary to any notion of having a long term plan.

[JHRover]

I personally doubt that Venkys themselves - the Desai couple or the two brothers - have any plan or strategy. I doubt they'll have ever heard of a Director of Football, probably haven't even met or spoken to Broughton or JDT.

What we have now is 'layering' - in the past Kean, Bowyer, Mowbray were able to jump on a plane to Pune, go to the top table, talk them into releasing funds for players and on they went for another year. As the budget has been cut (nowt to do with FFP they just get bored of putting more than they need to into the club) they have become more distant. I also think as time has gone by they have either learned or become more willing to allow others to run the club for them e.g. Pasha within certain parameters.

I think the current structure is a brainchild of Pasha, probably due in some part to realisation that he and Waggott aren't up to the job but also to further muddy the waters and distance himself from any serious scrutiny. 

'Don't look at me, ask Gregg' who can now handle all media issues.

I think Pasha has just been told to get on with it and do the best he can with the relative crumbs they are prepared to release when a decent business case can be put forward to do so i.e. Hyam and Szmodics.

The telltale giveaway on this front is the way they have handled the Rothwell and Brereton sagas. Both situations arose because of the owners failing to ensure their contract situations were dealt with in good time, as a result it makes sense to sell before they go for nothing, but authority for such sales still rests in India, which cannot be secured. So for all the talk of sustainability, reinvestment, assets you have the ridiculous scenario where major assets wander off for nothing completely at odds with that.

[chaddyrovers]

15 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Maybe they should warn the fans that the season is a "free hit" before they want us to fork out for an above average priced season ticket.

It is unfounded anyway. If the first season is seen as the foundation setting of a new project, they would have sold Brereton. As it is, the reset button will need to be pressed again in the summer.

No club reach BBD's asking price. How many times do we need over this before you actually willing to accept the point? 

How will it be reset button in the summer again?

15 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Brentford were competitive at the top end of league for years before promotion by repeatedly needing to sell key assets and immediately replacing by reinvesting much of those fees. Had they missed out again, Toney would have been sold, theyd have bought someone else for a decent chunk and continued. No nonsense about free hits and no summers of austerity.

Brentford finished 5th in 14/15 season, 9th in 15/16 season, 10th in 16/17 season, 9th in 17/18 season, 11th in 18/19 season, 3rd in 19/20 season, 3rd in 20/21 season

15 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I will judge based on what happens, what happens in private is irrelevant to those judgements. So far, one at best average window, so the jury is still out.

so you are judge basing your judgements on transfers and not everything he is responsible for within the 6 departments, appointments to these positions, etc?

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

It wouldnt even take a big roll of the dice. Sell Brereton, buy a striker and a couple more with the proceeds and it benefits us short and long term. 

Project my arse.

All sounds very easy that to be honest but you haven't taking into account whether the wage budget can be increase?, what sort of quality can we sign? would they all be permanent signings?  

who paying Brereton asking price and does BBD want out or maybe he is signing a pre contract with Spanish club in the coming days/weeks? 

[Proudtobeblue&white]

If they are so rich and interested, money would be available for better players. They are rich, but not interested, so we are fucked.

[Bbrovers2288]

I’m not totally against the porteous interest/signing, he is head and shoulders above everyone in the hibs team however he is a massive gobshite, his mouth would get him into bother here 

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, briansol said:

Funny you mention Brentford. They spent 6 seasons in the Championship, improving year by year before getting promoted. The way they did it was with a strategy and "project". They put in place great scouting which was highly data-driven and bought young talent they could improve and sell-on. Which they did with a number of players being sold for 9m+ over the years like Mephan, Konsa, Gray, Hogan, Benharama and Watkins. They had a lot of turnover as they don't have an academy, and also bought quite of lot duds, but they were offset with the gems they uncovered.

Another success was that any manager they hired had to adapt to their structure and setup and not to another reboot of style and players. 

 

The Brentford model should sound a bit familiar to what we are trying to achieve here. With a sporting director, great academy and using player trading to up the level of the squad. It might take time, but probably the only long-term solution for the club. 

 

The comparisons completely fell apart at the 'player trading' bit.

[J*B]

3 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

I’m not totally against the porteous interest/signing, he is head and shoulders above everyone in the hibs team however he is a massive gobshite, his mouth would get him into bother here 

Good, someone needs to rock the boat. 

[davulsukur]

19 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It would be......but then why does Morton play every minute of every game?

That would appear to be directly contrary to any notion of having a long term plan.

Not trying to defend anything here but in that podcast with GB, he also stated that they wanted to have Wharton, Garrett and Phillips in a similar position to Morton by the end of the season. As in, they train with the first team and by the season ends, have made a handful or so number of appearances. This with the intention they play a bigger role next season. 
We had a few injuries at cb and they discussed the possibility of loaning in another one but JDT decided to play Phillips instead. By all accounts, all 3 are ahead of where they expected them to be by now. Morton was brought in as temporary player, he had more experience at first team level than Wharton and Garrett and was always brought in to play more games, as the other 2 are integrated into the team more.

assume the idea was Trav, Buckley and Morton would be the 3 main players in CM and the other 2 would be integrated over the course of the season. Injuries, form and suspension have pushed them a bit closer than expected though.

Morton goes back in the summer and we have 2 players ready to step up more next season, is the plan I guess.

[tomphil]

It isn't all about big money as this clearly shows, however even if you want to use it as the biggest factor...

When we've started games with BBD, Gally, Smodz. Hyam and Brittain you're looking at around 16 million worth of signings there. So we've every right to be competing for the top 6 imo.

[booth]

9 hours ago, Miller11 said:

We could have Wilcox and Ripley in their prime but they’d be useless with how we play currently. There is absolutely no point in crossing the ball when there is nobody in the box. The only crosses that will ever happen on the training ground will be corners. Our forwards have a tendency to run towards the ball rather than towards the goal because crossing isn’t on the agenda. The only thing this system needs is throwing in the bin.

I'd say that's as much of a problem with the quality of our forwards.

[whalleyrover]

3 hours ago, CambridgeRover said:

My great plan although no one asked.

Gelhardt in , vale out on loan
Porteous in ,  carter out on loan
Vetlesen in , a.wharton out on loan

Diaz will leave for free in summer no matter what.  So if possible we should be looking for a replacement but if one does not materialise I think this would improve the spine of the team a lot

So much for for everyone's plans! Any plans could not include letting 4 players leave for nothing out of contract.

The bottom line is that while the LUNES FROM PUNE own our club, we will go nowhere.

[booth]

7 minutes ago, tomphil said:

It isn't all about big money as this clearly shows, however even if you want to use it as the biggest factor...

When we've started games with BBD, Gally, Smodz. Hyam and Brittain you're looking at around 16 million worth of signings there. So we've every right to be competing for the top 6 imo.

Gallagher and Szmodics were massively over priced.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

3 hours ago, callumrovers said:

It’s not, not immediately. Once you develop the said 18/19/20 year olds. Then you stand a chance. 

Unless they leave for decent fees - which is the plan is it not?

[dingles staying down 4ever]

8 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

And he can’t jump either. Rarely wins a header. Thought he was back too his abysmal self yesterday.

Left with little or no protection with no Diaz back tracking....reminded me of the days when Armstrong was here playing wide

[47er]

58 minutes ago, Boroblue said:

I doubt many but how many owners bought a self sustaining club at the upper end of the premiership and delivered them into division 1 in an astounding short period of time. They never needed to if they’d have managed the club professionally. I don’t thank them it’s all they deserve and I wish it was twice that amount. There is not a single good thing they have done for Rovers since they rocked up

Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford----all in a lower division than us when Venkys took over. All with lower crowds.

None had owners richer than us. You could throw in Fulham as well---always had crowds lower than we did, now they are light years ahead of us.

Its not crowds and lack of money that have ruined Rovers.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Boroblue said:

To continue this have we now written off the Mowbray journey. Yet the end point is still the same promotion. So after 5 years of Mowbrays journey we need another 4 years. So in 5 years of Mowbray we have to all intents and purposes achieved nothing. What makes anyone thinks this journey is better than the last one because the football and results look surprisingly similar. 
We don’t need a project we need experienced players with talent. To shorten the project let’s say this window. I dont want deferred gratification I want it now

Mainly because Mowbray never built anything. He flooded the team with loans every season so every summer you had to completely rebuild the squad. 

You're punishing JDT and Broughton for Mowbray's sins. 

[Boroblue]

1 minute ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Mainly because Mowbray never built anything. He flooded the team with loans every season so every summer you had to completely rebuild the squad. 

You're punishing JDT and Broughton for Mowbray's sins. 

No it’s about organisational belief. Why should we believe in this incarnation more than the last when the titles are the same. Building/ projects/ value . The words are the same.

What about ambition/ competition/ promotion. If carlsberg did bullshit it would be  in blue and white halves

[Miller11]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

How will it be reset button in the summer again?

Because we will lose our most effective player and only source of regular goals.

This entire “project” is based around the idea of selling our best players as soon as they start to peak. If it happens as they intend it’ll be reset after reset.

Obviously selling our better players is better than losing them for nothing, but it’s hardly a blueprint for being successful on the pitch.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

It wouldnt even take a big roll of the dice. Sell Brereton, buy a striker and a couple more with the proceeds and it benefits us short and long term. 

Project my arse.

Sadly with 6 months left on his contract that's very difficult to do. He'll just sit it out and go for free to the club of his choice (with a massive signing on fee). 

[roversfan99]

55 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No club reach BBD's asking price. How many times do we need over this before you actually willing to accept the point? 

How will it be reset button in the summer again?

Brentford finished 5th in 14/15 season, 9th in 15/16 season, 10th in 16/17 season, 9th in 17/18 season, 11th in 18/19 season, 3rd in 19/20 season, 3rd in 20/21 season

so you are judge basing your judgements on transfers and not everything he is responsible for within the 6 departments, appointments to these positions, etc?

All sounds very easy that to be honest but you haven't taking into account whether the wage budget can be increase?, what sort of quality can we sign? would they all be permanent signings?  

who paying Brereton asking price and does BBD want out or maybe he is signing a pre contract with Spanish club in the coming days/weeks? 

Im not going to stop saying it or accept it. Over 8m is a lot more than zero which we will have this summer and is a hell of a lot relative to our general budgets, more than the last 2 summers combined.

Its also why I dont swallow this bollocks about projects and the first year being a development one or a few hit. Keeping him and signing 3 loanees, one of whom plays weekly regardless of performance is not in line with that. And now we want more loanees.

Ill judge Broughton mainly on transfers and ultimately what happens on the pitch as anything he is supposedly doing should lead to on field results.

Weve supposedly put together a new recruitment team, and now you are saying it isnt easy? Surely theyve been bloody appointed to make best use of resources available and sign as well as possible, otherwise what is the point? Its much easier replacing him with the best part of 8m than with nothing.