January Transfer Window.

[Armchair supporter supremo]

One transfer we've missed out on! https://www.malaymail.com/news/sports/2023/01/20/wilcox-joins-southampton-as-director-of-football/51300

Im not knocking Broughton but surely having someone running the club with the connection here that Wilcox has/had would have been better. 

Looks like his role at Southampton covers exactly the same roles our dof does here. 

[Sweaty Gussets]

18 minutes ago, superniko said:

Just the position we needed to fill as a priority with our first signing. Personally I'm really excited to see what he can offer in the League Cup next year.

That's the spirit!

[Gav]

25 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Mowbray made a complete balls up of the Raya situation. Then he followed it up by signing Walton.

We have a better keep in Kaminski and we pocketed a few quid, that is why owners loved Mowbray!

[islander200]

10 minutes ago, Gav said:

We have a better keep in Kaminski and we pocketed a few quid, that is why owners loved Mowbray!

Kaminski is not a better goalkeeper than Raya.

One plays in the premier league and has Chelsea, Manchester United and Spurs chasing him aswell as being in the Spanish squad , the other recently signed a new contract with us a Championship club and Is 4th or 5th choice for Belgium 

[Atko's Engine]

On 18/01/2023 at 18:01, RevidgeBlue said:

They're welcome ......... at the right price. Really isn't a patch on Raya imo.

Whether your opinion is correct or not (I think TK is as good a keeper as any in this division) how on earth does it make sense to sell Kaminski just because he isn't Raya?  We're not going to get Raya back so we should only be considering selling TK if we can identify a better replacement.

Let's not compound one decision by making another unnecessarily. 

[tomphil]

5 minutes ago, Gav said:

We have a better keep in Kaminski and we pocketed a few quid, that is why owners loved Mowbray!

Loved him so much they shut the purse strings 2 years ago, ignored him and let his deal run to an end without even holding a phone call ?

Jog on 🤣

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, Gav said:

We have a better keep in Kaminski and we pocketed a few quid, that is why owners loved Mowbray!

How is he better ? Raya is in the Spain squad. Kaminski can’t get in the Belgium squad. Is Kaminski worth £20 -25 million ? You must be in a minority of one thinking that.

[Sweaty Gussets]

Who is Nikita Haikin? Former Chelsea & Portsmouth youth goalkeeper linked with Blackburn Rovers - LancsLive

Write up on Nikita....I feel an Elton John sing coming on. 

 

[Exiled_Rover]

14 minutes ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

One transfer we've missed out on! https://www.malaymail.com/news/sports/2023/01/20/wilcox-joins-southampton-as-director-of-football/51300

Im not knocking Broughton but surely having someone running the club with the connection here that Wilcox has/had would have been better. 

Looks like his role at Southampton covers exactly the same roles our dof does here. 

Sadly that's a bigger role.

[Miller11]

2 hours ago, RoverInverness said:

I am getting tired of this B.S. it’s not the 1970s and we can’t just sell a player who doesn’t want to be sold. 
 

If a player wants to run his contract down he can run his contract down - he can’t have a sale forced on him as a punishment. Can you wake up and smell the coffee please?

The only strategy a club could possibly take is to force a player to play in the reserves if they are choosing to run their contract down. That’s a different argument and absolutely filled with pitfalls and potential negative, if not disastrous, consequences. If you want the club to take that strategy then argue for it, but please stop pretending we can just sell players who don’t want to be sold. They’re not fucking slaves who are personally owned by the club, however much they may earn. They sign contracts and they pick and choose which ones to sign.

Ahh, coffee smells good!

 

Why is it suddenly becoming the narrative that Brereton did/would refuse a move? If we’d have accepted a bid in the summer from a team in a top division who’d have multiplied his wage at least tenfold I doubt he’d have turned his nose up at the move.

[Guest]

Kaminski is better for us than Raya was for us, surely nobody can doubt that? Which I think is what Gav was saying.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Why is it suddenly becoming the narrative that Brereton did/would refuse a move? If we’d have accepted a bid in the summer from a team in a top division who’d have multiplied his wage at least tenfold I doubt he’d have turned his nose up at the move.

Depends who was in for him. Why settle for one club when it 12 months you could (in his agents mind) have a pick of 5/6/7 clubs and make more money off it from a signing on fee?

[Leonard Venkhater]

21 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Kaminski is better for us than Raya was for us, surely nobody can doubt that? Which I think is what Gav was saying.

In my own ever so 'umble opinion..Raya, as a young keeper, certainly made a number of crucial howlers-ones that really cost us- and there were times-e.g. Brentford away, when it left me absolutely sick.

However, I think the professionals at the club should have seen his potential. At any rate, the 'keepers, who replaced him were worse than shite.......until TK!

Raya certainly did not wish to sign a new contract. I don't know whether this was because he thought there were better opportunities or whether he felt aggrieved at the way he was handled here.

It does rankle that a player that was developed at Rovers over so many years should make  such a huge profit for another club. I am hoping that the sell -on clause is significant and that alongside that payment for Brentford's promotion, it will net Rovers at least £10 million.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

In my own ever so 'umble opinion..Raya, as a young keeper, certainly made a number of crucial howlers-ones that really cost us- and there were times-e.g. Brentford away, when it left me absolutely sick.

However, I think the professionals at the club should have seen his potential. At any rate, the 'keepers, who replaced him were worse than shite.......until TK!

Raya certainly did not wish to sign a new contract. I don't know whether this was because he thought there were better opportunities or whether he felt aggrieved at the way he was handled here.

It does rankle that a player that was developed at Rovers over so many years should make  such a huge profit for another club. I am hoping that the sell -on clause is significant and that alongside that payment for Brentford's promotion, it will net Rovers at least £10 million.

Won't argue with any of that. Was never going to reach his current level under Ben Benson and Mowbray.

[Miller11]

46 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Depends who was in for him. Why settle for one club when it 12 months you could (in his agents mind) have a pick of 5/6/7 clubs and make more money off it from a signing on fee?

Agents aren’t exactly known for their patience. I doubt many would be pushing him to sit on 300k per year when he could be earning £3 million. He’d still be getting a signing on fee whenever he went.

It’s a massive jump to presume that a player would refuse a move, especially a hugely lucrative one to a top league. It’s a massively flawed argument been treated as fact by people trying to defend the clubs dreadful handling of the situation.

[Sweaty Gussets]

Just now, Miller11 said:

Agents aren’t exactly known for their patience. I doubt many would be pushing him to sit on 300k per year when he could be earning £3 million. He’d still be getting a signing on fee whenever he went.

It’s a massive jump to presume that a player would refuse a move, especially a hugely lucrative one to a top league. It’s a massively flawed argument been treated as fact by people trying to defend the clubs dreadful handling of the situation.

It's also a massive jump to presume BBD wanted to move to the clubs that bid for him last summer. 

And if a club doesn't have to pay a fee, some of that money ends up in the pocket of the player. Pretty standard practice, so it benefits BBD to leave on a free. 

[Miller11]

2 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

It's also a massive jump to presume BBD wanted to move to the clubs that bid for him last summer. 

And if a club doesn't have to pay a fee, some of that money ends up in the pocket of the player. Pretty standard practice, so it benefits BBD to leave on a free. 

No it isn’t. 

Anyway, if we’d encouraged or accepted bids then maybe it would be a valid discussion rather than an illogical assumption.

[Sweaty Gussets]

2 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

No it isn’t. 

Anyway, if we’d encouraged or accepted bids then maybe it would be a valid discussion rather than an illogical assumption.

Unless you know what he was offered, and you know what his thought process was, you really don't have an argument. 

And please stop with the 'defending the club at all costs' nonsense, some people just have a different viewpoint to you. 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Sweaty Gussets

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

Why is it suddenly becoming the narrative that Brereton did/would refuse a move? If we’d have accepted a bid in the summer from a team in a top division who’d have multiplied his wage at least tenfold I doubt he’d have turned his nose up at the move.

I think the point being made, and correctly so. Is that this incessant whinging about players leaving on a free is irritating. People somehow think that we have these players under lock and key and can tell them what to do…we can’t - it’s a simple supply and demand scenario….

Rovers have offered every one of those leavers a contract over the last 2+ years. The players have rejected the contracts because the demand for their services is sufficiently high enough for them to realise they can get a better deal elsewhere. Others have signed contracts, because it’s suited THEM. The likes of A Wharton and Phillips signed because they see a pathway to first team football. Make no bones about it, should they both kick on as is expected then neither will be rushing to sign a new £20k per week contract in 3yrs when their agents being told they can get £120k!!

This ‘let them rot in the ressies’ crap is boring too! Who even says that, these days? Why would you let your best assets rot when they could be winning you games!? It’s archaic.

Where we can and must be better is in long term planning and looking to engineer moves for players who indicate they won’t sign extensions in good time (2yrs)….but if they won’t sign, and won’t move then you’re stuck. There’s nothing you can do!

This regime will be judged on that planning over the next 12-24 months. With the extensions they’ve secured, I’d say they’ve made a decent start.

[Mattyblue]

I don’t think its ‘irritating’ at all. This is a Rovers forum and a key fall down of the club this past two years has been poor contract planning and the resulting loss of transfer fees as a result, a big issue for a club with well documented FFP issues, so it is well worth a discussion.

On the flipside we now have a new broom, and I’ve already seen plenty of posts discussing how GB will rectify/is already rectifying this going forward (such posts certainly add more than ‘boring’, ‘negative’!)
 

[Miller11]

17 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Unless you know what he was offered, and you know what his thought process was, you really don't have an argument. 

And please stop with the 'defending the club at all costs' nonsense, some people just have a different viewpoint to you. 

So why is it acceptable to presume he didn’t want to leave?

[JHRover]

8 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I think the point being made, and correctly so. Is that this incessant whinging about players leaving on a free is irritating. People somehow think that we have these players under lock and key and can tell them what to do…we can’t - it’s a simple supply and demand scenario….

Rovers have offered every one of those leavers a contract over the last 2+ years. The players have rejected the contracts because the demand for their services is sufficiently high enough for them to realise they can get a better deal elsewhere. Others have signed contracts, because it’s suited THEM. The likes of A Wharton and Phillips signed because they see a pathway to first team football. Make no bones about it, should they both kick on as is expected then neither will be rushing to sign a new £20k per week contract in 3yrs when their agents being told they can get £120k!!

This ‘let them rot in the ressies’ crap is boring too! Who even says that, these days? Why would you let your best assets rot when they could be winning you games!? It’s archaic.

Where we can and must be better is in long term planning and looking to engineer moves for players who indicate they won’t sign extensions in good time (2yrs)….but if they won’t sign, and won’t move then you’re stuck. There’s nothing you can do!

This regime will be judged on that planning over the next 12-24 months. With the extensions they’ve secured, I’d say they’ve made a decent start.

a few bits to add.

a lot of the frustration and anger, certainly on my part, is the clubs those players have and will go to. Only Diaz looks like taking a major step up. Lenihan (Middlesbrough), Nyambe (Wigan), Rothwell (Bournemouth) and Raya (Brentford) are have not left here to go to bigger or better clubs or indeed clubs that should be able to offer them considerably more than us. Whatever the truth is it doesn't reflect well on Rovers.

You might be right - we've 'done all we can' and nothing more can be expected. If so aren't you just a little bit alarmed that those players would rather move to such clubs than stay at Rovers? I know I am.

Rather than shrug shoulders, convince ourselves that's just the way it is and nothing more can be said or done let's just accept it and move on the best way of preventing it happening again in future is to identify what has gone wrong and deal with it - including removing those responsible from positions of power (Pasha, Waggott). The fact they are still on the gravy train albeit with an added cushion between themselves and accountability (Broughton) concerns me.

I think we all know you can't force players to sign new deals. But I think we are all entitled to feel a little bit concerned and aggrieved when so many are leaving, for so little, mainly to tin pot Championship rivals. You can hide behind the 'money' excuse in Bournemouths case but it really shouldn't be happening with the others.

I'm entitled to ask how this has happened and keep on bringing it up when I am being told my ticket prices need to be some of the most expensive in this league to boost income.

[Sweaty Gussets]

4 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

So why is it acceptable to presume he didn’t want to leave?

It's a logical assumption, rather than an illogical one, based on the fact he's running down his contract so he can move to a club he wants to go to. Otherwise, he may have kicked up a massive fuss when the club apparently turned down the Nice bid. But then we're assuming he's the type of guy who wpuld kick up a fuss. 

It's all assumptions, so criticising the club when none of us know the facts is as pointless as presuming he didn't want to leave. 

[Miller11]

14 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I think the point being made, and correctly so. Is that this incessant whinging about players leaving on a free is irritating. People somehow think that we have these players under lock and key and can tell them what to do…we can’t - it’s a simple supply and demand scenario….

Rovers have offered every one of those leavers a contract over the last 2+ years. The players have rejected the contracts because the demand for their services is sufficiently high enough for them to realise they can get a better deal elsewhere. Others have signed contracts, because it’s suited THEM. The likes of A Wharton and Phillips signed because they see a pathway to first team football. Make no bones about it, should they both kick on as is expected then neither will be rushing to sign a new £20k per week contract in 3yrs when their agents being told they can get £120k!!

This ‘let them rot in the ressies’ crap is boring too! Who even says that, these days? Why would you let your best assets rot when they could be winning you games!? It’s archaic.

Where we can and must be better is in long term planning and looking to engineer moves for players who indicate they won’t sign extensions in good time (2yrs)….but if they won’t sign, and won’t move then you’re stuck. There’s nothing you can do!

This regime will be judged on that planning over the next 12-24 months. With the extensions they’ve secured, I’d say they’ve made a decent start.

That’s not the argument here at all.

We have turned down bids for at least 2 of the players who have/looked like they will walk away for nothing. There was definitely something we could’ve done in those situations. For whatever reason we didn’t accept the bids. I don’t understand why people assume that the players would’ve dug their heels in and stayed. It wouldn’t be a logical decision, but if they did then it’s an entirely different discussion. Can anyone offer up any examples of one of our players refusing to be sold?

I’ve never advocated the “let them rot” line. Rovers do enough cutting off their nose to spite their face. It’s not a scenario that’s relevant very often as usually players are sold to further their career and earnings. In a lot of ways I’m glad Brereton is still here - Saturday showed things look pretty bleak without him! As you say the problem is our short-termism.

Players walking away for nothing is a huge issue for us. The fact it is happening again is far more irritating to me than the “incessant whingeing” about it. The model/project is not a new one. Mowbray went on for years about “polishing up” players and selling them on for a profit. When the model is repeatedly failing before our eyes there is obviously going to be complaints.

You are absolutely right about us needing to improve the strategy long term, and I absolutely agree with your 12-24 month timescale being a fair point to judge the new regime. I’m probably slightly less impressed with them than you on what they’ve done so far, and quite a lot less optimistic as the root cause of our issues remains Venky’s - you know my opinion on them. Fingers crossed though.

 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

So why is it acceptable to presume he didn’t want to leave?

It's not about acceptable, it's just a weird stance to slate the club and new DoF based on a hypothetical scenario.