January Transfer Window.

[J*B]

5 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

It should worry you that he continues to try it then.  A good manager adapts to the players he has.

You talk like we will be waltzing in and around the promotion/play offs for the coming seasons regardless.....for me, we need to push the button whilst 4th and with BBD at the club.  JDT lacks balls and wants a nice easy 3 years here without much pressure.

They only adapt if they think they need immediate success. Said it before, I’ll say it again… I’m convinced this season is an entire write off, the only aim is GB and JDT  work out who they want to get rid of. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 minutes ago, J*B said:

They only adapt if they think they need immediate success. Said it before, I’ll say it again… I’m convinced this season is an entire write off, the only aim is GB and JDT  work out who they want to get rid of. 

Let me know when they decide to go for it.

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, J*B said:

They only adapt if they think they need immediate success. Said it before, I’ll say it again… I’m convinced this season is an entire write off, the only aim is GB and JDT  work out who they want to get rid of. 

All about opinions but do you personally think its wise to write off a whole season, not least one in which we started well for such a reason? Why do we need to write it off to show we have or supposedly have a longer term plan? And has our business this season (Brereton running his deal down, use of loanees and game time for younger lads etc) been consistent with this plan?

[J*B]

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

All about opinions but do you personally think its wise to write off a whole season, not least one in which we started well for such a reason? Why do we need to write it off to show we have or supposedly have a longer term plan? And has our business this season (Brereton running his deal down, use of loanees and game time for younger lads etc) been consistent with this plan?

I’ve sort of put all my eggs in one basket. 

I don’t rate Waggott - at all. I don’t think he has the best interests of the club at heart and think he’s more interested in ticking boxes than ambition. So I’ve long called for change, especially on the footballing side so I was happy when Broughton was brought in.

I didn’t rate Mowbray. I thought he was an eternal loser, that was stuck in his own ways, consistently unhappy and blamed others for his own errors. So I was happy to see him leave - about 3 years too late in my opinion. 

Gregg Broughton has at least has been consistent about ‘the project’ and whilst it’s different, at least he clearly has a plan and props to him for sticking to it. His messaging hasn’t ever changed.

Broughton has signed his own manager, JDT, who clearly is aligned to ‘the project’ and has his own thoughts of how we should play football. JDT has had more success than any of our previous managers both as a player and a manager, he’s forgotten more about football than I’ll ever know.

So if I start mobbing against GB and JDT now, I’m a hypocrite! They are - in principle - exactly what I’ve asked for. So I’ll judge them after a few years if that’s the benchmark they’re being judged against.

Unlike many on here I don’t think this squad is anywhere near the level required. When the first 11 are all on form they’re a decent side, but as soon as a couple are injured or out of form we’re a lower mid table team. 

[Exiled in Toronto Mk2]

24 minutes ago, J*B said:

They only adapt if they think they need immediate success. Said it before, I’ll say it again… I’m convinced this season is an entire write off, the only aim is GB and JDT  work out who they want to get rid of. 

Exactly how I see it. It could be argued a principled manager doesn’t junk his way of playing just to make Sam Gallagher look a bit less shit.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 minutes ago, J*B said:

I’ve sort of put all my eggs in one basket. 

I don’t rate Waggott - at all. I don’t think he has the best interests of the club at heart and think he’s more interested in ticking boxes than ambition. So I’ve long called for change, especially on the footballing side so I was happy when Broughton was brought in.

I didn’t rate Mowbray. I thought he was an eternal loser, that was stuck in his own ways, consistently unhappy and blamed others for his own errors. So I was happy to see him leave - about 3 years too late in my opinion. 

Gregg Broughton has at least has been consistent about ‘the project’ and whilst it’s different, at least he clearly has a plan and props to him for sticking to it. His messaging hasn’t ever changed.

Broughton has signed his own manager, JDT, who clearly is aligned to ‘the project’ and has his own thoughts of how we should play football. JDT has had more success than any of our previous managers both as a player and a manager, he’s forgotten more about football than I’ll ever know.

So if I start mobbing against GB and JDT now, I’m a hypocrite! They are - in principle - exactly what I’ve asked for. So I’ll judge them after a few years if that’s the benchmark they’re being judged against.

Unlike many on here I don’t think this squad is anywhere near the level required. When the first 11 are all on form they’re a decent side, but as soon as a couple are injured or out of form we’re a lower mid table team. 

The trouble with this “ journey “ and “ project “ talk is that the players buy into it. All of a sudden next weeks match isn’t all that important anymore. We’re on a journey so there’ll be another game after this one and another after that one. If we score first we’ll give it a go, if we don’t - well there’s always next week.

The long time football mantra of not looking beyond doing everything in your power to win the next game has been stood on it’s head.

[Mattyblue]

Our next league fixture is in February, so not a million miles from the ‘business end of the season’ and we are currently sitting 4th.

But an ITK-er believes that those at Ewood see this season as a ‘write off’. What a very strange football club.

[roversfan99]

24 minutes ago, J*B said:

I’ve sort of put all my eggs in one basket. 

I don’t rate Waggott - at all. I don’t think he has the best interests of the club at heart and think he’s more interested in ticking boxes than ambition. So I’ve long called for change, especially on the footballing side so I was happy when Broughton was brought in.

I didn’t rate Mowbray. I thought he was an eternal loser, that was stuck in his own ways, consistently unhappy and blamed others for his own errors. So I was happy to see him leave - about 3 years too late in my opinion. 

Gregg Broughton has at least has been consistent about ‘the project’ and whilst it’s different, at least he clearly has a plan and props to him for sticking to it. His messaging hasn’t ever changed.

Broughton has signed his own manager, JDT, who clearly is aligned to ‘the project’ and has his own thoughts of how we should play football. JDT has had more success than any of our previous managers both as a player and a manager, he’s forgotten more about football than I’ll ever know.

So if I start mobbing against GB and JDT now, I’m a hypocrite! They are - in principle - exactly what I’ve asked for. So I’ll judge them after a few years if that’s the benchmark they’re being judged against.

Unlike many on here I don’t think this squad is anywhere near the level required. When the first 11 are all on form they’re a decent side, but as soon as a couple are injured or out of form we’re a lower mid table team. 

Venkys are the main problem, but you dont have to be unconditionally for or against anyone and wouldnt be a hypocrite for being behind the current staff yet seeing fault for certain things.

The idea of writing off seasons is insane. You can think long term as well as short term without having to treat it like a total system reset and a total lack of accountability for a whole season in such a bang average league. We finished 8th last season and people exaggerate as to the "state" that we were in last summer. We lost 3 peemanently contracted players who were regulars and all 3 were replaced by selected players of decent experience, that would have been less had the owners not interfered with Rothwell and not allowed a sale and replacement but forgetting that. A start again policy was not necessary.

How we have gone about our season goes massively against the assumption that this season is just a stepping stone ahead of next season and beyond, no one has put it that implicitly anyway so it is a logic leap to assume that.

The correct way of going about things in general is always to weigh up each decision individually, short v long term. Brereton should have been sold in the summer as a longer term decision regardless of any project/season write off bollocks but wasnt, that doesnt fit this narrative. Decisions should be made on each individual young player without targets of x number of minutes for graduates, if they are good enough now involve them, if not loan them out. Ash Phillips rarely features baring an injury crisis, and Adam Wharton also misses out on the 18 more often than not. Neither of those things happen if this season is more about the future than the present. Vale often features but I suspect that is massively due to the terrible signing of Hirst and the subsequent lack of options.

Loan deals should also have been dismissed if this season is about the future. Morton plays week in week out regardless of performances in an area where our other options are all young or youngish and on long term deals, that doesnt scream long term project. I dont agree with the idea of a season write off so I dont have a problem with using loans if they improve us, I am just frustrated that our use of that market so far has been very poor and miles worse than the loans we got under Mowbray.

I dont think we have gone in with a policy of writing off this season to look towards next, there are far too many inconsistencies to such an assumption that has been assumed so much it has become almost factual.

Edited January 21, 2023 by roversfan99

[Exiled_Rover]

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Venkys are the main problem, but you dont have to be unconditionally for or against anyone and wouldnt be a hypocrite for being behind the current staff yet seeing fault for certain things.

The idea of writing off seasons is insane. You can think long term as well as short term without having to treat it like a total system reset and a total lack of accountability for a whole season in such a bang average league. We finished 8th last season and people exaggerate as to the "state" that we were in last summer. We lost 3 peemanently contracted players who were regulars and all 3 were replaced by selected players of decent experience, that would have been less had the owners not interfered with Rothwell and not allowed a sale and replacement but forgetting that. A start again policy was not necessary.

How we have gone about our season goes massively against the assumption that this season is just a stepping stone ahead of next season and beyond, no one has put it that implicitly anyway so it is a logic leap to assume that.

The correct way of going about things in general is always to weigh up each decision individually, short v long term. Brereton should have been sold in the summer as a longer term decision regardless of any project/season write off bollocks but wasnt, that doesnt fit this narrative. Decisions should be made on each individual young player without targets of x number of minutes for graduates, if they are good enough now involve them, if not loan them out. Ash Phillips rarely features baring an injury crisis, and Adam Wharton also misses out on the 18 more often than not. Neither of those things happen if this season is more about the future than the present. Vale often features but I suspect that is massively due to the terrible signing of Hirst and the subsequent lack of options.

Loan deals should also have been dismissed if this season is about the future. Morton plays week in week out regardless of performances in an area where our other options are all young or youngish and on long term deals, that doesnt scream long term project. I dont agree with the idea of a season write off so I dont have a problem with using loans if they improve us, I am just frustrated that our use of that market so far has been very poor and miles worse than the loans we got under Mowbray.

I dont think we have gone in with a policy of writing off this season to look towards next, there are far too many inconsistencies to such an assumption that has been assumed so much it has become almost factual.

There's a difference between writing the season off and begging for relegation.

They're slowly bringing their players into the club and slowly bringing along our top Academy prospects - all the while installing the style of play they want to play.

I keep mentioning it, but you don't put 3 at the back and employ the low block for 20 mins against relegation threatened Cardiff at home if you're not being pragmatic - we've ground out quite a few games that way this year.

We find ourselves in a very surprising position, but they're not going to go hell for leather chasing a playoff spot... hence being linked to two permanent long-term options in supposed positions of strength and pragmatically trying to bring in a goal scorer on loan.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

It should worry you that he continues to try it then.  A good manager adapts to the players he has.

You talk like we will be waltzing in and around the promotion/play offs for the coming seasons regardless.....for me, we need to push the button whilst 4th and with BBD at the club.  JDT lacks balls and wants a nice easy 3 years here without much pressure.

He walked away from a much more pressured job because he wanted a bigger challenge, so I'm not sure where the idea that he's here for an easy ride comes from.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Exiled_Rover said:

There's a difference between writing the season off and begging for relegation.

They're slowly bringing their players into the club and slowly bringing along our top Academy prospects - all the while installing the style of play they want to play.

I keep mentioning it, but you don't put 3 at the back and employ the low block for 20 mins against relegation threatened Cardiff at home if you're not being pragmatic - we've ground out quite a few games that way this year.

We find ourselves in a very surprising position, but they're not going to go hell for leather chasing a playoff spot... hence being linked to two permanent long-term options in supposed positions of strength and pragmatically trying to bring in a goal scorer on loan.

I dont think they are writing off the season, I believe that is a few peoples interpretations that I wouldnt agree with either in terms of that I dont think that is the actual truth based on how we have operated and also it would be a stupid idea anyway.

Equally, I have never suggested that they should go hell for leather either. My suggestion would have been to sell Brereton and reinvest which does in particular benefit the long term from next season and beyond. But equally it seems that we want to be active agan in the loan market, I agree that we should try and improve specifically to push for the top 6 (I dont think we will get there but we have to try) and that could be a responsible and cheap way to add some quality only for this season. But again that doesnt fit this IMO misguided assumption that the focus is on next season.

The key is always to have an eye on both this season and the future simultaneously. A radical approach to either write a season off or conversely to go "hell for leather" (which IMO is what we have done with Brereton and that will restrict us going forward) only looks at one of these which would be crazy.

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

It should worry you that he continues to try it then.  A good manager adapts to the players he has.

You talk like we will be waltzing in and around the promotion/play offs for the coming seasons regardless.....for me, we need to push the button whilst 4th and with BBD at the club.  JDT lacks balls and wants a nice easy 3 years here without much pressure.

Name one top manager who changes his style of play to suit the players….Ferguson? Mourinho? Guardiola? Klopp? Arteta? Conte? Ten Haag!!?? Not a chance!!!

Every top manager has a way of doing it and you either fit in or fuck off.

JDT is a winner. He was as a player and he has been as a manager. My guess is that if the club don’t pull their finger out and back him, he’ll walk away. 

[Upside Down]

12 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yep, keeping Kean on after relegation was a bigger mistake than sacking Sam was. Indeed keeping Kean on after he very nearly relegated us the first time around was a bigger mistake than sacking Sam. It was downhill all the way once Kean was allowed to waste the parachute payments.

None of that was a mistake though, it was all deliberate. 

[Sparks Rover]

4 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

 

JDT is a winner. 

I don't see one.  His team reflect him in the big games.  We will see.

Mourinhos Man U didn't play like Mourinhos Chelsea did they? And Klopp is looking a dick now he doesn't have the same players to do his heavy metal football....Not sure you're right here mate.

Let's await the coin spent then on all these top players...🤣

Edited January 21, 2023 by Sparks Rover

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Name one top manager who changes his style of play to suit the players….Ferguson? Mourinho? Guardiola? Klopp? Arteta? Conte? Ten Haag!!?? Not a chance!!!

Every top manager has a way of doing it and you either fit in or fuck off.

JDT is a winner. He was as a player and he has been as a manager. My guess is that if the club don’t pull their finger out and back him, he’ll walk away. 

All of those managers could get the cheque book out and buy players to fit their way of playing. We can’t.

[Exiled_Rover]

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont think they are writing off the season, I believe that is a few peoples interpretations that I wouldnt agree with either in terms of that I dont think that is the actual truth based on how we have operated and also it would be a stupid idea anyway.

Equally, I have never suggested that they should go hell for leather either. My suggestion would have been to sell Brereton and reinvest which does in particular benefit the long term from next season and beyond. But equally it seems that we want to be active agan in the loan market, I agree that we should try and improve specifically to push for the top 6 (I dont think we will get there but we have to try) and that could be a responsible and cheap way to add some quality only for this season. But again that doesnt fit this IMO misguided assumption that the focus is on next season.

The key is always to have an eye on both this season and the future simultaneously. A radical approach to either write a season off or conversely to go "hell for leather" (which IMO is what we have done with Brereton and that will restrict us going forward) only looks at one of these which would be crazy.

It's been said multiple times that BBD is still here cos the owners have a valuation for him (which is baffling because they know nothing about football!) and won't sell him unless it's met. I'm sure Broughton and JDT would love to have that money for a bloke that hasn't scored for nearly 10 games.

My only real complaints about JDT so far is that he's slow to make subs (but he clearly doesn't trust the bench) and he's never dropped Morton for his poor play (but that might be part of the loan deal.

[SuperBrfc]

47 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The trouble with this “ journey “ and “ project “ talk is that the players buy into it. All of a sudden next weeks match isn’t all that important anymore. We’re on a journey so there’ll be another game after this one and another after that one. If we score first we’ll give it a go, if we don’t - well there’s always next week.

The long time football mantra of not looking beyond doing everything in your power to win the next game has been stood on it’s head.

Exactly that. What makes it worse is that they have been hearing the same thing for the past five years. "It's alright lads, we go again next week", then they hear their manager constantly telling the press about it being a "young side, these results are going to happen, ups and downs". Both managers seemingly shrugging off defeats. That's bound to have an impact on the players.

It's a deeply ingrained losing culture with a softly softly approach all round. A recipe for disaster. This provides the perfect environment for players who don't fancy it on a particular day and only serves to keep the losing cycle going. The capitulations over the past couple of years and the lack of fight in games this season show the effects of such an approach.

[Upside Down]

3 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Name one top manager who changes his style of play to suit the players….Ferguson? Mourinho? Guardiola? Klopp? Arteta? Conte? Ten Haag!!?? Not a chance!!!

Every top manager has a way of doing it and you either fit in or fuck off.

JDT is a winner. He was as a player and he has been as a manager. My guess is that if the club don’t pull their finger out and back him, he’ll walk away. 

Ferguson changed tactics all the time to suit the players he had and the opposition they were playing. 

Ancelotti, who has won every major league title in Europe doesn't have any philosophy or set style. He just uses what he has the best way he can. I was hoping JDT would have had this approach given the time spent playing for him but unfortunately he has been stricken with the Dutch disease. 

 

Also, all of those managers have had huge budgets with which to build the teams they want.

[Upside Down]

2 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

Exactly that. What makes it worse is that they have been hearing the same thing for the past five years. "It's alright lads, we go again next week", then they hear their manager constantly telling the press about it being a "young side, these results are going to happen, ups and downs". Both managers seemingly shrugging off defeats. That's bound to have an impact on the players.

It's a deeply ingrained losing culture with a softly softly approach all round. A recipe for disaster. This provides the perfect environment for players who don't fancy it on a particular day and only serves to keep the losing cycle going. The capitulations over the past couple of years and the lack of fight in games this season show the effects of such an approach.

100% this is it.

[Exiled_Rover]

3 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

Exactly that. What makes it worse is that they have been hearing the same thing for the past five years. "It's alright lads, we go again next week", then they hear their manager constantly telling the press about it being a "young side, these results are going to happen, ups and downs". Both managers seemingly shrugging off defeats. That's bound to have an impact on the players.

It's a deeply ingrained losing culture with a softly softly approach all round. A recipe for disaster. This provides the perfect environment for players who don't fancy it on a particular day and only serves to keep the losing cycle going. The capitulations over the past couple of years and the lack of fight in games this season show the effects of such an approach.

You can't take what a manager says in press conferences seriously - it's all positive.

The fact he's dropped players for poor performances this season tells me he's ruthless behind the scenes. Buckley was dropped for months, Dack had to earn his way into the side, Markanday is having to learn to track back right now - he's not soft on them.

It's never been a lack of fight this season, it's a lack of ability to put the ball in the back of the net (with maybe one semi-decent attacking player on the bench to bring on to change things).

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

Exactly that. What makes it worse is that they have been hearing the same thing for the past five years. "It's alright lads, we go again next week", then they hear their manager constantly telling the press about it being a "young side, these results are going to happen, ups and downs". Both managers seemingly shrugging off defeats. That's bound to have an impact on the players.

It's a deeply ingrained losing culture with a softly softly approach all round. A recipe for disaster. This provides the perfect environment for players who don't fancy it on a particular day and only serves to keep the losing cycle going. The capitulations over the past couple of years and the lack of fight in games this season show the effects of such an approach.

I used to know the chief exec at my local rugby league club. He said “ Never give the buggers a reason for losing. Never give them an excuse for not performing ! “

[martonrover]

54 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The trouble with this “ journey “ and “ project “ talk is that the players buy into it. All of a sudden next weeks match isn’t all that important anymore. We’re on a journey so there’ll be another game after this one and another after that one. If we score first we’ll give it a go, if we don’t - well there’s always next week.

The long time football mantra of not looking beyond doing everything in your power to win the next game has been stood on its head.

……picking players to “add to their value”, rather than because they are good enough and likely to finish on the winning side.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Exiled in Toronto Mk2 said:

Exactly how I see it. It could be argued a principled manager doesn’t junk his way of playing just to make Sam Gallagher look a bit less shit.

I'm trying to think what that style of play is given his lack of technique and instincts. I assume playing balls into the channels and watching him lash 9/10 of them into the stands?

He certainly can't play with his back to goal, nor does he win many attacking headers in their box.

[LDRover]

10 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

Ferguson changed tactics all the time to suit the players he had and the opposition they were playing. 

Ancelotti, who has won every major league title in Europe doesn't have any philosophy or set style. He just uses what he has the best way he can. I was hoping JDT would have had this approach given the time spent playing for him but unfortunately he has been stricken with the Dutch disease. 

 

Also, all of those managers have had huge budgets with which to build the teams they want.

Ferguson was one of the biggest advocates of changes in philosophy throughout his career. From 4-4-2 with 2 wingers early on to Cantona as a '10' to 4-3-3 later on to occasionally playing Park as a man marker. 

[Theaxe15]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

I’ve sort of put all my eggs in one basket. 

I don’t rate Waggott - at all. I don’t think he has the best interests of the club at heart and think he’s more interested in ticking boxes than ambition. So I’ve long called for change, especially on the footballing side so I was happy when Broughton was brought in.

I didn’t rate Mowbray. I thought he was an eternal loser, that was stuck in his own ways, consistently unhappy and blamed others for his own errors. So I was happy to see him leave - about 3 years too late in my opinion. 

Gregg Broughton has at least has been consistent about ‘the project’ and whilst it’s different, at least he clearly has a plan and props to him for sticking to it. His messaging hasn’t ever changed.

Broughton has signed his own manager, JDT, who clearly is aligned to ‘the project’ and has his own thoughts of how we should play football. JDT has had more success than any of our previous managers both as a player and a manager, he’s forgotten more about football than I’ll ever know.

So if I start mobbing against GB and JDT now, I’m a hypocrite! They are - in principle - exactly what I’ve asked for. So I’ll judge them after a few years if that’s the benchmark they’re being judged against.

Unlike many on here I don’t think this squad is anywhere near the level required. When the first 11 are all on form they’re a decent side, but as soon as a couple are injured or out of form we’re a lower mid table team. 

How dare you be realistic