January Transfer Window.

[Mattyblue]

Every manager I imagine will talk about ‘a project’ it’s just a synonym for ‘the job’, ‘the plan’, ‘the club’s ambition’.

Their ‘project’ was to get back to the PL as quickly as possible. Ours, well, we will probably be on to Microsoft Project schedule version 26 when JDT does a Lambert…

Edited February 8, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

22 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Difference being, his project was to win and win quickly. Some ambition from those above…

Something that’s a dream according to the man our dugout….

I’d be happy if I could see some style and a coherent way of playing emerging. As it is at the moment I can’t. This season has been really poor so far.

[Mercer]

12 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Pretty transparent attempt at trying to pretend it’s all rosy behind the scenes.

A picture paints a thousands words!

IMO, Waggott day dreaming and somewhere else, Pasha 'what am I doing here', Broughton thoroughly pissed-off, Benson 'can't believe my luck' and 'lights on but no one's home' Lowe.

[jim mk2]

3 hours ago, Gav said:

He talks about a project all the time.

Its also easy with over £30m at your disposal to bring players in, but you know that, you're on a fishing trip and hooked a couple, job done I suppose.

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/football/vincent-kompany-has-had-a-blast-piecing-together-his-project-at-burnley-3835423

 

"He talks about a project all the time" 

Kompany doesn't use the word "project" once in that article. Did you actually read it? "Project" is a figment of the Burnley Express headline writer's imagination

FYI  @longsiders and / or @sympatheticclaret said in response to my question some time back that as far as they could recall they didn't think Kompany (unlike our manager) ever talked about a multi-year "project"

He just came in, revamped the squad (and made money in the process) and got them flying at the top of the league in his first season

@Mercer referred to the fantasy world you live in during the Wigan match thread and he's right. 

 

 

[Gav]

20 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

"He talks about a project all the time" 

Kompany doesn't use the word "project" once in that article. Did you actually read it? "Project" is a figment of the Burnley Express headline writer's imagination

FYI  @longsiders and / or @sympatheticclaret said in response to my question some time back that as far as they could recall they didn't think Kompany (unlike our manager) ever talked about a multi-year "project"

He just came in, revamped the squad (and made money in the process) and got them flying at the top of the league in his first season

@Mercer referred to the fantasy world you live in during the Wigan match thread and he's right. 

Aligning yourself with the dingles is probably your last throw of the dice Jim 😂

Minis and Ferraris ring any bells? 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Gav

[booth]

29 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

"He talks about a project all the time" 

Kompany doesn't use the word "project" once in that article. Did you actually read it? "Project" is a figment of the Burnley Express headline writer's imagination

FYI  @longsiders and / or @sympatheticclaret said in response to my question some time back that as far as they could recall they didn't think Kompany (unlike our manager) ever talked about a multi-year "project"

He just came in, revamped the squad (and made money in the process) and got them flying at the top of the league in his first season

@Mercer referred to the fantasy world you live in during the Wigan match thread and he's right. 

 

 

His remit is to get the club promoted at first attempt.

JDTs isn’t. And it’s not his project, it’s the clubs. Blame them for wasting years on Mowbrays dawdling, and now spending even more years on building a squad,

[jim mk2]

17 minutes ago, Gav said:

Aligning yourself with the dingles is probably your last throw of the dice Jim 😂

Minis and Ferraris ring any bells? 

 

Not sure why I respond to this drivel but "aligning myself with the Dingles" (que?) and "last throw of what dice"?

Otherwise I agree, they're the Ferrari now and we're the Mini

[jim mk2]

11 minutes ago, booth said:

His remit is to get the club promoted at first attempt.

JDTs isn’t. And it’s not his project, it’s the clubs. Blame them for wasting years on Mowbrays dawdling, and now spending even more years on building a squad,

Was Kompany told that by the Burnley board? If that's the case he's doing a great job 

Tomasson has referred to "projects" several times. It looks like he's embraced the ethos. As fans we're tired of hearing it. 

[wilsdenrover]

23 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Was Kompany told that by the Burnley board? If that's the case he's doing a great job 

Tomasson has referred to "projects" several times. It looks like he's embraced the ethos. As fans we're tired of hearing it. 

If our ‘project’ was to get promoted as soon as possible I think more fans would put up with that term being used.

I think it’s the idea that there’s such a thing as being promoted ‘too soon’ which is the major problem with ours.

Why not try to go up ASAP, even if you think this means an immediate relegation would be almost guaranteed? - if this does happen, we’d (should) be in a position to launch a bid for a ‘more sustainable’ promotion. 

I’d say another problem (i didn’t say ‘the other’ because I’m sure there’s many more!) is what they say the project is bears no resemblance to their actions.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

19 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

If our ‘project’ was to get promoted as soon as possible I think more fans would put up with that term being used.

I think it’s the idea that there’s such a thing as being promoted ‘too soon’ which is the major problem with ours.

Why not try to go up ASAP, even if you think this means an immediate relegation would be almost guaranteed? - if this does happen, we’d (should) be in a position to launch a bid for a ‘more sustainable’ promotion. 

I’d say another problem (i didn’t say ‘the other’ because I’m sure there’s many more!) is what they say the project is bears no resemblance to their actions.

 

 

 

 

Projects are for clubs with A* senior management such as Brighton, Brentford, Fulham etc not for clubs like Rovers who basically have no senior management at all.

[RoverDom]

Do you think JDT would have gone to Burnley and said "this is a 3 year project". Perhaps it was a diplomatic way of saying "promotion? This year? With this squad and these owners? Are you joking?"

 

[Andy]

24 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

If our ‘project’ was to get promoted as soon as possible I think more fans would put up with that term being used.

I think it’s the idea that there’s such a thing as being promoted ‘too soon’ which is the major problem with ours.

Why not try to go up ASAP, even if you think this means an immediate relegation would be almost guaranteed? - if this does happen, we’d (should) be in a position to launch a bid for a ‘more sustainable’ promotion. 

I’d say another problem (i didn’t say ‘the other’ because I’m sure there’s many more!) is what they say the project is bears no resemblance to their actions.

 

 

 

 

Agree with this, even an initial season, with the financial benefits it brings, would be a big help to us long term.

Also, JDT is managing expectations; that is as clear as day,

Behind the scenes, promotion will of course be the aim this season and the ‘play poorly / win game’ instances this season show that he’s more interested in results than performances.

He’s a winner; settling isn’t in his DNA. Hence his anger at the recruitment fuck ups.

[wilsdenrover]

15 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Projects are for clubs with A* senior management such as Brighton, Brentford, Fulham etc not for clubs like Rovers who basically have no senior management at all.

I see what you’re saying but I see it more as:

A* senior management (as per your examples) = well thought out and well implemented projects

Our senior management = a poorly thought out and badly implemented project

I say all this as someone whose not keen on the term being used - although I do think it’s better than being on a journey!

[Gav]

14 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Projects are for clubs with A* senior management such as Brighton, Brentford, Fulham etc not for clubs like Rovers who basically have no senior management at all.

JDT came into the club saying he needs 4 transfer windows to stamp his mark on this side, that will now be 5 after the January shambles. I read that to mean he wants 4/5 quality additions and we maybe in a position to challenge if he’s backed.

When you have the likes of the dingles spending £30m+ on players this season alone, Sheff United calling on the likes of Sander Berge who they paid £22m for and Millwall paying bigger wages than we do, you know we’re up against it.

I don’t care about the rhetoric that comes from the manager, projects, plans or ambitions, I can see with my own eyes we are some way off challenging right now and it will take time to improve our squad and league position.

[wilsdenrover]

14 minutes ago, Andy said:

Agree with this, even an initial season, with the financial benefits it brings, would be a big help to us long term.

Also, JDT is managing expectations; that is as clear as day,

Behind the scenes, promotion will of course be the aim this season and the ‘play poorly / win game’ instances this season show that he’s more interested in results than performances.

He’s a winner; settling isn’t in his DNA. Hence his anger at the recruitment fuck ups.

I think you can manage expectations regarding how likely promotion is without giving the impression that this season would be too soon to go up.

Re: your behind the scenes comment, I expect you’re right regarding JDT, but I’m not sure those higher up the club agree (if they do they’ve a funny way of showing it!)

 

[Dreams of 1995]

Burnley also have the second highest paid squad in the division.

Literally google "Championship wages 2022/2023" and 99.99% of them have them as second

We will of course know the full truth shortly, as club accounts are released throughout the year. Not that many do, which irks when it is the same people who constantly deny the advantage FFP has given some clubs. Just read the expenditure of clubs and their performance and you can see the link

So there is absolutely no need to be delivering a project at Burnley, because they have five times as much money guaranteed to be paid to them over the next three years than 75% of Championship clubs

Their goal is to ensure it isn't wasted, a la Stoke City or Huddersfield

Their 'project' is to become a club that will compete in the Prem, but Kompany is going to be sorely disappointed if he thinks he will get the money to do that. Burnley's business model is clear - follow Norwich and Watford and yo-yo, ensuring good dividends over a 5 year period for shareholders whilst enjoying the advantage footballs financial rules give clubs in that yo-yo spell

And that is why they have retained the 2nd most expensive squad in the division and brought in a load of fee loans to deliver them a squad capable of achieving a promotion push

Contrast to Rovers - who sit around about 17th in the wage expenditure - and you can see the need for a project

We can all sit and ignore the financial consequences of Football, pretend it is irrelevant if you like, but the reality is that wage expenditure is directly related to promotion. And we simply do not have the financial firepower to compete with the likes of West Brom, Sheffield Utd, Norwich, Watford, Stoke City or Middlesborough

And any manager will have to realise this 'project' at a club like ours. They will need time because we cannot throw money at it and generate a load of real skilled players into a squad with depth. That's a fact

You can hate it, but criticising JDT for it is stupid. He's just seeing what you aren't. And so is Broughton.

[wilsdenrover]

1 minute ago, Gav said:

JDT came into the club saying he needs 4 transfer windows to stamp his mark on this side, that will now be 5 after the January shambles. I read that to mean he wants 4/5 quality additions and we maybe in a position to challenge if he’s backed.

When you have the likes of the dingles spending £30m+ on players this season alone, Sheff United calling on the likes of Sander Berge who they paid £22m for and Millwall paying bigger wages than we do, you know we’re up against it.

I don’t care about the rhetoric that comes from the manager, projects, plans or ambitions, I can see with my own eyes we are some way off challenging right now and it will take time to improve our squad and league position.

 Notwithstanding what he has to deal with, would you have expected to see any improvements yet (and have you seen any)?

 

 

[booth]

7 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Burnley also have the second highest paid squad in the division.

Literally google "Championship wages 2022/2023" and 99.99% of them have them as second

We will of course know the full truth shortly, as club accounts are released throughout the year. Not that many do, which irks when it is the same people who constantly deny the advantage FFP has given some clubs. Just read the expenditure of clubs and their performance and you can see the link

So there is absolutely no need to be delivering a project at Burnley, because they have five times as much money guaranteed to be paid to them over the next three years than 75% of Championship clubs

Their goal is to ensure it isn't wasted, a la Stoke City or Huddersfield

Their 'project' is to become a club that will compete in the Prem, but Kompany is going to be sorely disappointed if he thinks he will get the money to do that. Burnley's business model is clear - follow Norwich and Watford and yo-yo, ensuring good dividends over a 5 year period for shareholders whilst enjoying the advantage footballs financial rules give clubs in that yo-yo spell

And that is why they have retained the 2nd most expensive squad in the division and brought in a load of fee loans to deliver them a squad capable of achieving a promotion push

Contrast to Rovers - who sit around about 17th in the wage expenditure - and you can see the need for a project

We can all sit and ignore the financial consequences of Football, pretend it is irrelevant if you like, but the reality is that wage expenditure is directly related to promotion. And we simply do not have the financial firepower to compete with the likes of West Brom, Sheffield Utd, Norwich, Watford, Stoke City or Middlesborough

And any manager will have to realise this 'project' at a club like ours. They will need time because we cannot throw money at it and generate a load of real skilled players into a squad with depth. That's a fact

You can hate it, but criticising JDT for it is stupid. He's just seeing what you aren't. And so is Broughton.

Very good post!

[wilsdenrover]

2 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Burnley also have the second highest paid squad in the division.

Literally google "Championship wages 2022/2023" and 99.99% of them have them as second

We will of course know the full truth shortly, as club accounts are released throughout the year. Not that many do, which irks when it is the same people who constantly deny the advantage FFP has given some clubs. Just read the expenditure of clubs and their performance and you can see the link

So there is absolutely no need to be delivering a project at Burnley, because they have five times as much money guaranteed to be paid to them over the next three years than 75% of Championship clubs

Their goal is to ensure it isn't wasted, a la Stoke City or Huddersfield

Their 'project' is to become a club that will compete in the Prem, but Kompany is going to be sorely disappointed if he thinks he will get the money to do that. Burnley's business model is clear - follow Norwich and Watford and yo-yo, ensuring good dividends over a 5 year period for shareholders whilst enjoying the advantage footballs financial rules give clubs in that yo-yo spell

And that is why they have retained the 2nd most expensive squad in the division and brought in a load of fee loans to deliver them a squad capable of achieving a promotion push

Contrast to Rovers - who sit around about 17th in the wage expenditure - and you can see the need for a project

We can all sit and ignore the financial consequences of Football, pretend it is irrelevant if you like, but the reality is that wage expenditure is directly related to promotion. And we simply do not have the financial firepower to compete with the likes of West Brom, Sheffield Utd, Norwich, Watford, Stoke City or Middlesborough

And any manager will have to realise this 'project' at a club like ours. They will need time because we cannot throw money at it and generate a load of real skilled players into a squad with depth. That's a fact

You can hate it, but criticising JDT for it is stupid. He's just seeing what you aren't. And so is Broughton.

Excluding the top two - we’re one point behind a couple of teams you mentioned, and above the others.

Doesn’t this suggest that a couple of astute signings may (not would) have been enough? 

I guess we’ll never know because O’Brien has almost certainly fallen through and we didn’t manage to sign a forward.

 

 

[booth]

8 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

 Notwithstanding what he has to deal with, would you have expected to see any improvements yet (and have you seen any)?

 

 

I didn’t expect much of an improvement on the pitch this season, but I did expect an improvement in terms of recruitment, and with it I hoped we’d see signs of an improvement on Mowbray and his “journey”. With a view to things improving in a big way next season. Something to build on, a bit of hope.

I expected that because the appointment of JDT and fanfare on his arrival suggested so.

What a wally I was.

[wilsdenrover]

3 minutes ago, booth said:

I didn’t expect much of an improvement on the pitch this season, but I did expect an improvement in terms of recruitment, and with it I hoped we’d see signs of an improvement on Mowbray and his “journey”. With a view to things improving in a big way next season. Something to build on, a bit of hope.

I expected that because the appointment of JDT and fanfare on his arrival suggested so.

What a wally I was.

Do you think there’s been an improvement in identifying shortfalls within the squad? 

Not that it matters if you can’t get the deals across the line (or do the paperwork properly when you have done!)

[Dreams of 1995]

1 minute ago, wilsdenrover said:

Excluding the top two - we’re one point behind a couple of teams you mentioned, and above the others.

Doesn’t this suggest that a couple of astute signings may (not would) have been enough? 

I guess we’ll never know because O’Brien has almost certainly fallen through and we didn’t manage to sign a forward.

I agree totally.

And for the last two seasons we have competed at a level above any one with a similar expenditure.

We rival the likes of PNE, Milwall, Hull, QPR, Middlesborough for wages. Although Boro's at the high end of 'rival'

And teams like Blues, Bristol City, Swansea, Norwich, Stoke, WBA, Sheffield Utd etc all spend way more than us but we've been better

In our time in the Championship we've had to compete with the likes of Watford, Fulham, A Villa, Leeds, Norwich and Bournemouth (now Burnley) who blow us out of the water financially

Yet over the past two seasons we have been comfortably a top table side. It has been a remarked difference from what came before - a few seasons treading water mid table before relegation and then a few 15th place finishes. This 'project' is showing progress, year on year progress

Brentford managed their project much better because they were much better managed at board level. It is just a reality. But the football side of things at Rovers is improving imo.

[Gav]

24 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

 Notwithstanding what he has to deal with, would you have expected to see any improvements yet (and have you seen any)?

Not really no.

I'm surprised our league position is as good as it is after the players we lost at the back end of last season, we certainly haven't replaced like for like which would usually result in regression. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Gav

[Miller11]

Everything about our “project” is massively flawed.

It’s like an off the shelf plan that isn’t fit for purpose.

- Employ a director of football. Ignoring the fact that the club is dysfunctional from top to bottom and expecting him to change this

- Play out from the back. So basically try and do what everyone else is trying to do. Not only is it causing all sorts of short term issues with results, even if we do it well, there will be teams that do it better because they can afford better players. The only way to buck the trend of the monied teams being the best teams is to do something different effectively, not doing what everyone else does averagely.

- Develop players. In theory, as soon as our players become good enough to get in the Premier league we sell them. Hardly conducive to long term on pitch success. In practice we are hamstrung by poor negotiations, a limited and unswerving wage structure, and owners with unrealistic ideas who don’t care but like interfering.

On top of this it’s also now being used to dampen hopes and expectations and shrug off failings. The journey went nowhere for 5 years. The project will be the same.

[RoverDom]

And to say JDT doesn't want promotion is farcical. If he got this squad out of the division at the first time of asking that would be amazing for his CV. His CV will be all he cares about and promotion is good for that