v The Dingles (a) - 13/11/2022

[J*B]

25 minutes ago, Mike E said:

The manner of the loss (not the loss itself, not even the scoreline, just the limpness) has made the PNE game must-win in my mind.

 

I’ve written this once, deleted it as I decided I was being dramatic, then rewritten it again. 

I’d lose every single game to Preston for the rest of my life to beat Burnley at Ewood. 

[booth]

28 minutes ago, longsiders1882 said:

Couple of things to bear in mind - Sheffield was our 7th game in 21 days, it was preceded by 2 late comebacks, we were tired and really looked it in the second half. We may have looked out for the count but we still won our next 2 games pretty easily.  Sheffield also had players who were able to capitalise on our frailties and brought some fight - you had neither fight nor the right players on the day. I’m hoping we repay Sheffield United on Easter Monday - perhaps you will repay us in March.

We had some tired legs out there. Brereton must be fatigued at this point. I won't say the game swung when Gallagher went off with a gashed leg as I always expected defeat when I saw the teamsheet, inverted fullbacks and no midfield, especially with Tomasson parking the bus for the first 45. But having no centre half on the pitch certainly gave Burnley the license to commit more players. We're still paying the price for not replacing Adam Armstrong in 2020 and if that's properly addressed in January it could mean the difference between getting into the play offs and not.

Is Barnes always that "physical"? Some of it was blatant, some clumsy, it's just a shame Kaminski made a meal of it as Barnes was digging his own grave. If he hadn't scored I think he may have chinned someone.

[Blue blood]

It's not the loss which hurts the most - although that's painful. 

It's not even the fact we put in an appalling performance - although that was a disgrace in itself. 

No what hurts the most is it was so sodding avoidable. We'd done this in so many other away games. The tippy tappy limpness hasn't worked 8 times before so it's no surprise it didn't work Vs Burnley. And if that wasn't a whopping big clue as to what style to play Sheff Utd and others gave us a blooming big hint as well. 

It was just so obvious that wouldn't work as it hasn't so many other times away from home. It required a millisecond of thought to know that this tippy tappy limpness wouldn't work, and yet we persist with it all game. 

The other two, painful as they are, might be excusable. Certainly losing was, and if the performance was a one off it would be spectacularly disappointing but perhaps a case of a bad day at the office or overawed by the occasion. But given all the warning signs and knowing what we needed to do and more importantly not do, to rock up with those tactics and that performance is criminal. 

[booth]

38 minutes ago, Mike E said:

The manner of the loss (not the loss itself, not even the scoreline, just the limpness) has made the PNE game must-win in my mind.

 

It was always a must win because a decent amount of their fans are the most deluded dicks in football. They say we live in the past but they've never forgiven us for having a promotion party at their place. What a fantastic Championship manager Souness was.

[longsiders1882]

30 minutes ago, booth said:

We had some tired legs out there. Brereton must be fatigued at this point. I won't say the game swung when Gallagher went off with a gashed leg as I always expected defeat when I saw the teamsheet, inverted fullbacks and no midfield, especially with Tomasson parking the bus for the first 45. But having no centre half on the pitch certainly gave Burnley the license to commit more players. We're still paying the price for not replacing Adam Armstrong in 2020 and if that's properly addressed in January it could mean the difference between getting into the play offs and not.

Is Barnes always that "physical"? Some of it was blatant, some clumsy, it's just a shame Kaminski made a meal of it as Barnes was digging his own grave. If he hadn't scored I think he may have chinned someone.

Barnes is very physical - but also better than many give him credit for. I’m avoiding saying to much about the game as you guys may well fall out with me. I expected so much more from your team than they brought, perhaps it was fatigue and one thing high possession football does do is take it out of the legs of the opposition. I was happy/disappointed not to see Adam Wharton in the team/squad. I personally rate our midfield vey highly but would have loved to see how they managed him - and indeed he did them. 

We should have 3 players back after the World Cup, and then a transfer window to survive (good chance Jones recalls Tella I think). March will be far more testing for us I’m sure. Frankly you cannot be as tame as you were in this game.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

I’ve written this once, deleted it as I decided I was being dramatic, then rewritten it again. 

I’d lose every single game to Preston for the rest of my life to beat Burnley at Ewood. 

No.

[Exiled_Rover]

4 hours ago, tomphil said:

I think it's more that he's just a continental manager and has that cool Scandinavian character about him.

He thinks what worked at Malmo will work here it's the only way he knows and he won the lge back to back with it. So it's here to stay and he'll keep trying to drum it into them come what may. The get out of jail card is always ready made with such a young squad and so many more to integrate into it.

He'll need to improve the midfield and forwards to truly play how he wants to play. 

At the moment he's making do with what he's got. There's no way he came here to play 3 CBs and Pickering as a WB (or indeed Hedges), but here we are. 

He finds a way to squeeze Hedges into the starting XI because he's one of the few players we have that finds space and can control and pass the ball in tight confines. 

If we're serious about promotion this year (I don't think we are) we'll go and find a Keinan Davis on loan in January (we obviously couldn't afford him outright) to lead the line - the ball sticks to him and he brings others into the game. 

[47er]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

It's not the loss which hurts the most - although that's painful. 

It's not even the fact we put in an appalling performance - although that was a disgrace in itself. 

No what hurts the most is it was so sodding avoidable. We'd done this in so many other away games. The tippy tappy limpness hasn't worked 8 times before so it's no surprise it didn't work Vs Burnley. And if that wasn't a whopping big clue as to what style to play Sheff Utd and others gave us a blooming big hint as well. 

It was just so obvious that wouldn't work as it hasn't so many other times away from home. It required a millisecond of thought to know that this tippy tappy limpness wouldn't work, and yet we persist with it all game. 

The other two, painful as they are, might be excusable. Certainly losing was, and if the performance was a one off it would be spectacularly disappointing but perhaps a case of a bad day at the office or overawed by the occasion. But given all the warning signs and knowing what we needed to do and more importantly not do, to rock up with those tactics and that performance is criminal. 

And there is no sign of recognition ,accountability, acceptance or responsibility.

Constant references to "young players" is classic deflection--its the players fault because they are not old enough!

If they are not old enough, well pick someone else or change the tactics. But then that brings up Ayala---a consistent theme on here that, when fit, he was the best centre-back in the Championship. But no-one's saying that anymore--he like several others, is paying the price for a stubborn manager who refuses to play to his players" strengths but instead insists on a style they are not adapting to.

Stubborn manager, players out of position, poor selections, and no responsibility---now where have we come across that before?!!

The least he owed the fans on Sunday was an apology---"its not the players fault,I got it wrong" would have done.

Instead he went on about the fact we've got a long break now due to the World Cup and its "back to the training ground".

In other words, a longer opportunity to inculcate his players to a system which doesn't work!

This could all fall apart quickly, we were a disgrace on Sunday.

 

 

[Upside Down]

2 hours ago, longsiders1882 said:

Barnes is very physical - but also better than many give him credit for. I’m avoiding saying to much about the game as you guys may well fall out with me. I expected so much more from your team than they brought, perhaps it was fatigue and one thing high possession football does do is take it out of the legs of the opposition. I was happy/disappointed not to see Adam Wharton in the team/squad. I personally rate our midfield vey highly but would have loved to see how they managed him - and indeed he did them. 

We should have 3 players back after the World Cup, and then a transfer window to survive (good chance Jones recalls Tella I think). March will be far more testing for us I’m sure. Frankly you cannot be as tame as you were in this game.

The fact we didn't play either of the Wharton's has really pissed me off. Players like that can be the difference in games like that. Instead it was treated like it was any other game, no different to playing away at Rotherham or Hull. As soon as the first goal went in it was just another example of every one shrugging their shoulders and going "oh well, no bother, I'll still be getting paid this week"

Our club has absolutely no passion, pride or determination from top to bottom and it hasn't done for twelve years. 

[AllRoverAsia]

10 hours ago, longsiders1882 said:

Barnes is very physical - but also better than many give him credit for. I’m avoiding saying to much about the game as you guys may well fall out with me. I expected so much more from your team than they brought, perhaps it was fatigue and one thing high possession football does do is take it out of the legs of the opposition. I was happy/disappointed not to see Adam Wharton in the team/squad. I personally rate our midfield vey highly but would have loved to see how they managed him - and indeed he did them. 

We should have 3 players back after the World Cup, and then a transfer window to survive (good chance Jones recalls Tella I think). March will be far more testing for us I’m sure. Frankly you cannot be as tame as you were in this game.

I called Barnes by a name new to some of the UTC crowd.

To somewhat quantify that I would have him as our main striker in a single heart beat.

Meanwhile we had very little bottle of the Flowers vintage 

Edited November 16, 2022 by AllRoverAsia

[RoversTilliDie]

14 hours ago, longsiders1882 said:

Couple of things to bear in mind - Sheffield was our 7th game in 21 days, it was preceded by 2 late comebacks, we were tired and really looked it in the second half. We may have looked out for the count but we still won our next 2 games pretty easily.  Sheffield also had players who were able to capitalise on our frailties and brought some fight - you had neither fight nor the right players on the day. I’m hoping we repay Sheffield United on Easter Monday - perhaps you will repay us in March.

I don't think you will find it as easy in the return game at Ewood next March. By the way, how many home fixtures have you played in the last couple of months 5 out of 6. You've played 1 away out of 6 and lost 5-2. We will return the compliment in March give you 2,000 tickets, the rest for Rovers supporters.

[bazza]

13 hours ago, longsiders1882 said:

March will be far more testing for us I’m sure. Frankly you cannot be as tame as you were in this game.

If we have the same manager we will be. JDT out!

[Cuppliance]

It was about 30 mins into the game, and I tuned to my mate and said, "This reminds me too much of the Reading away game where we lost 3-0 and I'd say that's the worst performance of the season so far". Well looking at the game as a whole days later I'd got as far to say that the performance at Burnley eclipsed the Reading performance it for how bad it was.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

12 hours ago, Upside Down said:

The fact we didn't play either of the Wharton's has really pissed me off. Players like that can be the difference in games like that. Instead it was treated like it was any other game, no different to playing away at Rotherham or Hull. As soon as the first goal went in it was just another example of every one shrugging their shoulders and going "oh well, no bother, I'll still be getting paid this week"

Our club has absolutely no passion, pride or determination from top to bottom and it hasn't done for twelve years. 

It pissed me off as well - but it has struck me since that maybe JDT was trying to protect them. Personally I think the experience would have been good for them - but they would have been heavily targeted.

[Mashed Potatoes]

3 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

It pissed me off as well - but it has struck me since that maybe JDT was trying to protect them. Personally I think the experience would have been good for them - but they would have been heavily targeted.

To date Adam Wharton has played 45 minutes or more in 7 Championship games, of which only 1 - the game against Coventry- has been against a team currently in the top half of the table, so I think he is being protected and being used against weaker teams. No doubt that will change when the manager and coaching staff think the time is right.

[AllRoverAsia]

Well that puts "It's all about the team" to bed.

[longsiders1882]

1 hour ago, RoversTilliDie said:

I don't think you will find it as easy in the return game at Ewood next March. By the way, how many home fixtures have you played in the last couple of months 5 out of 6. You've played 1 away out of 6 and lost 5-2. We will return the compliment in March give you 2,000 tickets, the rest for Rovers supporters.

I'd be amazed if it is as easy in March - delighted but amazed. We've played 11 of 21 league games at home, same as you. Are you suggesting, that we had it easy and thats why you performed as you did? We've lost 2 games so far and both away from home but I'm not sure it is a specific problem but we shall see in the second half of the season.

On ticket numbers - you should give whatever you want, it's your clubs call not ours. We gave you the full away allocation we have these days - it wouldn't be unreasonable for you to mirror the number we gave you. 

1 hour ago, bazza said:

If we have the same manager we will be. JDT out!

As an outsider it's hard to judge but I've seen you on TV twice and you looked decent and you are still third in the league, surely he's not so bad?

[booth]

17 hours ago, longsiders1882 said:

Barnes is very physical - but also better than many give him credit for. I’m avoiding saying to much about the game as you guys may well fall out with me. I expected so much more from your team than they brought, perhaps it was fatigue and one thing high possession football does do is take it out of the legs of the opposition. I was happy/disappointed not to see Adam Wharton in the team/squad. I personally rate our midfield vey highly but would have loved to see how they managed him - and indeed he did them. 

We should have 3 players back after the World Cup, and then a transfer window to survive (good chance Jones recalls Tella I think). March will be far more testing for us I’m sure. Frankly you cannot be as tame as you were in this game.

Both Wharton's were a big miss. Adam Wharton is a brilliant player, not the finished article but he's only 18. We should be getting at least 60 minutes out of him a week but JDT seems happy to bring him in very slowly.

We rarely lose when Scott Wharton is in defence. I personally think he's a better player than Ayala but to replace him in a fierce Derby with Mola, a 21 year old loanee who has only played one cup game a few days ago was madness. I imagine Scott Wharton was dropped because his passing has been a bit ropey since he returned from injury.

Similarly I don't know what was going on in Tomasson's head when he decided to play Garrett. He probably thought he'd break up play but he's only 19 himself with (I think) less minutes on the pitch than Adam Wharton.

There are many reasons for that performance. Partly fatigue, and tactics and team selection were suicidal. Having Hedges and Brittain, two good players as inverted wingbacks is something JDT is experimenting with, and I wish he wouldn't. Also there's an over reliance on youth due to a thin/unbalanced squad. Many years of Mowbray putting round pegs in square holes has meant we haven't signed a "proper" centre forward since 2019. A problem we could have fixed in Summer but for some reason didn't, although Summer priority seemed to be to replace Lenihan and Nyambe who both left on frees.  I'd expect any normal club to remedy the centre forward situation in January - but Rovers aren't a normal club, so my expectations are low.

The tapping about at the back is something Tomasson continues to impose on the team, to our continual detriment. Along with Gallagher going off this handed you the game to win, though with the way the team was set up was never going to last 90 minutes. We won't win many away games because JDT doesn't direct them to attack as much at home. So we get the tippy tappy stuff combined with a bombardment of the defence, which leads to conceding goals. He seems a bright, positive guy in person, but the penny isn't dropping that these players cannot do this away from home - or even at home really.

Gallagher going off basically reduced us to ten men with barely any goal threat, with Brereton out wide and tiring.

I don't expect much from the home fixture unless we sign a decent experienced midfielder along with a good centre forward in January. We may give you a match if JDT grows a pair and balances the squad.

Edited November 16, 2022 by booth

[bigbrandjohn]

Still pissed off and the World Cup break doesn’t help. 
 

JDT needs to understand that the return at Ewood is like no other. 
 

No Mr nice guy. No fancy arse playing out of the back bollocks.
 

Pick a team of warriors for this game and chuck them in a cold shower before the game. 

[arbitro]

2 hours ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

It pissed me off as well - but it has struck me since that maybe JDT was trying to protect them. Personally I think the experience would have been good for them - but they would have been heavily targeted.

Thomason left Scott out and played Mola because of his pace against Burnley's quick wide men. Then we defended on the edge of our box for most of the game because of Ayala's lack of pace. There is some perverse logic from Tomasson somewhere.

[booth]

10 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Thomason left Scott out and played Mola because of his pace against Burnley's quick wide men. Then we defended on the edge of our box for most of the game because of Ayala's lack of pace. There is some perverse logic from Tomasson somewhere.

That's extraordinary if true.

I'd replace Ayala in January. Get an experienced midfielder in. Sign a good centre forward.

Play Scott Wharton when he's fit. Play proper fullbacks.

[Upside Down]

3 hours ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

It pissed me off as well - but it has struck me since that maybe JDT was trying to protect them. Personally I think the experience would have been good for them - but they would have been heavily targeted.

Whatever reason for not playing them it is total bollocks. 

Piss poor management. 

[tomphil]

Not watched it back and never will but i do remember commenting at the time that BBD and Gallagher weren't closing down quick up top. Whether by instruction or they were both struggling - both did look a bit wooden by normal standards - we were conceding way too much space to Burnley.

And of course their dangerous wide men meant there was no chance of any unrisky wing back type play because they attacked that space every chance.

They certainly did a number on us tactically.

[Leonard Venkhater]

20 hours ago, Blue blood said:

It's not the loss which hurts the most - although that's painful. 

It's not even the fact we put in an appalling performance - although that was a disgrace in itself. 

No what hurts the most is it was so sodding avoidable. We'd done this in so many other away games. The tippy tappy limpness hasn't worked 8 times before so it's no surprise it didn't work Vs Burnley. And if that wasn't a whopping big clue as to what style to play Sheff Utd and others gave us a blooming big hint as well. 

It was just so obvious that wouldn't work as it hasn't so many other times away from home. It required a millisecond of thought to know that this tippy tappy limpness wouldn't work, and yet we persist with it all game. 

The other two, painful as they are, might be excusable. Certainly losing was, and if the performance was a one off it would be spectacularly disappointing but perhaps a case of a bad day at the office or overawed by the occasion. But given all the warning signs and knowing what we needed to do and more importantly not do, to rock up with those tactics and that performance is criminal. 

After three days of reflection, what the fuck was JDT thinking?!

It truly was shocking...

[47er]

2 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

After three days of reflection, what the fuck was JDT thinking?!

It truly was shocking...

After 3 days of "reflection" it doesn't get any better does it? I'll never smile again!