v Rotherham United (a) - 14/1/23 k/o 12:30pm

[booth]

Just now, booth said:

West Brom beating Luton now, what a comeback. So we've gone up a place.

And now Watford have scored against Blackpool, so we've gone back down.

[Hasta]

16 minutes ago, booth said:

Is tenth not a good return all things considered?

And if we continue to have average transfer windows (I'd argue the Summer window was below average as it's left us with Hyam), we lose Brereton for nothing and we're bottom by next Christmas whose fault is that? Can any manager work under such circumstances?

If things continue the way they are JDT won't be here next season.

Depends on what you think of what you are watching. Some of the decisions we have made in games (both line ups and tactics) have cost us points. From where we were before the Burnley game then no, I don’t think 10th is a good return. I think a good manager would adapted and have us finishing higher up the table. There will be teams above us by the end who on paper are not necessarily better than we are, and we have got ourselves into a position to have a significant lead over them.
 

I doubt we would be bottom by next Christmas. That Is negative.  This league is pretty poor. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Hasta

[booth]

Just now, Hasta said:

Depends on what your watching. Some of the decisions we have made in games (both line ups and tactics) have cost us points. From where we were before the Burnley game then no, I don’t think 10th is a good return. I think a good manager would adapted and have us finishing higher up the table. There will be teams above us by the end who on paper are not necessarily better than we are, and we have got ourselves into a position to have a significant lead over them.
 

I doubt we would be bottom by next Christmas. That Is negative.  This league is pretty poor. 

You have to look at the bigger picture though. Earlier in the season the defence was better organised than it was under Mowbray, which led to 3 points. We were holding out better, more resilient. Now we're having to resort to using squad players and youth more the wheels are falling off.

Would you have taken 10th before the season started?

I thought we'd be mid/lower table going off the squad and as predicted, we'd struggle for goals.

[BigBar]

3 minutes ago, LDRover said:

Ah well, at least we can look forward to signing the stellar names on Gregg the egg's z list.

Meanwhile patronising the fans with the "sssssh leave it to the professionals" approach. You develop players in the youth team, under 23s, cup games, loans and by giving them cameos with the first team. We seem hell bent on blooding them by throwing them in at the deep end under guise of "promoting youth" and development.

The reality is it is a cheap option, low wages, no fee, keeps the fans on side because you can't date question with "one of our own" isn't performing. Instead we praise average performances and convince ourselves they are better than they are.

Buckley, Garrett, Travis, Vale, JRC all featuring very frequently this season. They are not up to it either right now or ever. Some are fine for coming on or being in around the squad but let's be honest they are getting game time primarily because we cheap out over and over, mismanage contracts and lose millions. Nice to have academy graduates of course and I love to see one or two breaking through. The Whartons are an example. Great to see and bags of potential. We are overly reliant on kids not because they are undeniable but because we haven't had a decent budget, investment or plan in over a decade.

[booth]

1 minute ago, BigBar said:

Meanwhile patronising the fans with the "sssssh leave it to the professionals" approach. You develop players in the youth team, under 23s, cup games, loans and by giving them cameos with the first team. We seem hell bent on blooding them by throwing them in at the deep end under guise of "promoting youth" and development.

The reality is it is a cheap option, low wages, no fee, keeps the fans on side because you can't date question with "one of our own" isn't performing. Instead we praise average performances and convince ourselves they are better than they are.

Buckley, Garrett, Travis, Vale, JRC all featuring very frequently this season. They are not up to it either right now or ever. Some are fine for coming on or being in around the squad but let's be honest they are getting game time primarily because we cheap out over and over, mismanage contracts and lose millions. Nice to have academy graduates of course and I love to see one or two breaking through. The Whartons are an example. Great to see and bags of potential. We are overly reliant on kids not because they are undeniable but because we haven't had a decent budget, investment or plan in over a decade.

"healthy transfer budget."

[Hasta]

9 minutes ago, booth said:

You have to look at the bigger picture though. Earlier in the season the defence was better organised than it was under Mowbray, which led to 3 points. We were holding out better, more resilient. Now we're having to resort to using squad players and youth more the wheels are falling off.

Would you have taken 10th before the season started?

I thought we'd be mid/lower table going off the squad and as predicted, we'd struggle for goals.

I’d have accepted 10th but I wanted better. But for me the bigger picture is we are regressing as we are getting found out tactically and,  more worrying, by effort and desire.
 

We had conceded less goals and had a plus 14 goal difference under Mowbray at this point last year so i’m not sure we are more resilient. 
 

I don’t want JDT out, but I’m getting very worried as I’m failing to see his good points.  

Edited January 14, 2023 by Hasta

[Waggy76]

23 minutes ago, booth said:

Is tenth not a good return all things considered?

And if we continue to have average transfer windows (I'd argue the Summer window was below average as it's left us with Hyam), we lose Brereton for nothing and we're bottom by next Christmas whose fault is that? Can any manager work under such circumstances?

If things continue the way they are JDT won't be here next season.

If we finish 10th it probably is .

Can't see myself , long way to go and I suspect bottom half of the bottom half ..There is no fight in this team and no physicality ,we play little lads football

The fact , We haven't scored a single goal after going behind , speaks volumes!

 

[Cherry Blue]

6 minutes ago, booth said:

You have to look at the bigger picture though. Earlier in the season the defence was better organised than it was under Mowbray, which led to 3 points. We were holding out better, more resilient. Now we're having to resort to using squad players and youth more the wheels are falling off.

Would you have taken 10th before the season started?

I thought we'd be mid/lower table going off the squad and as predicted, we'd struggle for goals.

But do you not think if using different squad players JDT should adapt with a plan B and play differently? Instead he continues to play about at the back, resulting in Dack coming back and we have no momentum going forward.

[dallydally]

25 minutes ago, booth said:

And now Watford have scored against Blackpool, so we've gone back down.

Forget it lads. This side is going nowhere but down this league!!!!!

[booth]

Just now, Hasta said:

I’d have accepted 10th but I wanted better. But for me the bigger picture is we are regressing. 
 

We had conceded less goals and had a plus 14 goal difference under Mowbray at this point last year so i’m not sure we are more resilient. 
 

I don’t want JDT out, but I’m getting very worried as I’m failing to see his good points.  

We may have conceded less goals but the goals we did concede were pretty damning.

Brereton scored more last season, that's not JDT's fault. Our pitiful attempts at goalscoring in the Boro and todays game aren't either. We gain six extra points if we score those chances. Pickering being a prick in the first minute wasn't. Gregg's answer to Pickering was Mola. Pickering would be better as a wide player as his crossing is decent, he just can't defend apart from the odd decent game.

Lots to criticise about JDT and I'm not completely convinced he's the man, but the club have a lot to answer for. Waggot, Broughton... What board allows a club to go without a proper striker for 18 months? What board allows a manager to sign loads of wingers with virtually no scoring record?

But then again, what board allows a club to lose £££'s on Rothwell, then more on Brereton? Imagine if they'd sold Brereton and invested it in a number 9 and a Danny Graham type.

Clueless from top to bottom. I doubt any manager could flourish here. Any talk of promotion is a joke. It'll never happen under Venkys.

[tomphil]

35 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Another 12 months is a different story. 

With all of the issues with the club though,  if “nobody is mentioning promotion” what does sacking the manager actually achieve?

You genuinely believe you can predict he’ll take us down next season and it’s all his fault?

There are no more issues at the club than any other in this division i wish that myth wouldn't keep getting dragged up.

We now have a structure in place, a half decent squad and have spent more than many this season. Sometimes you just have to accept a team can only be as good as who is coaching and managing it for the games it's playing.  

Where did i mention relegation ? You've switched from promotion now to that when neither is on the cards in the near future.

Bland nothingness is where we'll be living again.

 

[Butty]

6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

We have different options on the bench today. 

Morton and Garrett suits each other games and bring in very different qualities to Rovers

Sky Sports Football channel

Told you mate, if we’re gunna play 2 in the middle we need two men in there not two boys. We are crying out for a physical presence in the middle of the park, I think we’ll be bringing another centre mid in. It’s the weakest area of our team. 

[Hasta]

@booth  I don’t disagree with most of that, but all it tells us is that there are other faults other than JDT.

However JDT is a very stubborn, one-dimensional manager and he is currently being found out by a lot of the other managers in the league. On the individual match day thread, that shocking performance is down to him. The bigger picture I agree is elsewhere.

I doubt  anyone believes with the squad we had available today man for man, we should be getting battered at Rotherham .

Edited January 14, 2023 by Hasta

[lraC]

I just watched the results and saw Preston lost 4-0 at home. I thought that’s a tonking, but it might not be if they played well. 

[AllRoverAsia]

1 minute ago, lraC said:

I just watched the results and saw Preston lost 4-0 at home. I thought that’s a tonking, but it might not be if they played well. 

They didn't. I watched quite a bit. Norwich coasted the second half.

[lraC]

1 minute ago, AllRoverAsia said:

They didn't. I watched quite a bit. Norwich coasted the second half.

What about Liverpool then, did they play well? 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

that was piss poor there from Hyam

Piss poor from Hyam !  What about Pickering who woke up thinking he was Bobby Moore and elected  to pass the whole width of the field with his wrong foot l Has he got a brain ?

[Devon Rover]

I'm surprised to see some discussion about whether people would settle for a 10th place finish. Looking at the table, I'd be amazed if we finished in the top 10 and very surprised by a top 15 finish. And no, I wouldn't be happy with either, as this is another case of putting ourselves in a decent position then bottling it through a lack of managerial nous and players with balls.

Unless we bring in a few first teamers with a bit of fight in them, in January, then the next few months will be a steady decline. Even then, JDT's one trick pony approach will probably mean signings won't matter much. Its pretty desperate, isn't it? 

[booth]

12 minutes ago, Cherry Blue said:

But do you not think if using different squad players JDT should adapt with a plan B and play differently? Instead he continues to play about at the back, resulting in Dack coming back and we have no momentum going forward.

No, I don't think you can have a plan B with these players.

So we play with different players, it's a little easier on the eye, which I doubt, but who scores the goals?

And with the two fullbacks we have we'll still concede plenty.

Okay so we replace the fullbacks with Carter and Mola. Awful.

We replace the two midfielders today with Edun and Travis. Awful.

We replace a couple of forward players with Dolan and Markanday. A slight upgrade, but both are wingers not goalscorers.

Relying on too many kids, too many passengers. Midfield options have been awful since we kicked off the season. We don't have one decent number 9 at the club. Shit squad with a handful of good players, and a few players who step up now and again.

If we wanted to muddle along with that squad, why bring in a manager who wants to play football? Sounds like a stupid Venkys instruction like they did with Kean. A more direct manager wouldn't be able to work with this squad with nothing upfront.

[AllRoverAsia]

1 minute ago, lraC said:

What about Liverpool then, did they play well? 

I saw just the end of the 1st half. Brighton were leading and Liverpool poor. Brighton were all over them.

[Ghost7]

The losses aren't just losses, they're no show hammerings. The combination of this manager, no funds and no ambition isn't going to work. One is going to have to give but I suspect we'll continue to drift along and that Tomasson will quit before ever getting fired by our passive owners.

[booth]

1 minute ago, Devon Rover said:

I'm surprised to see some discussion about whether people would settle for a 10th place finish. Looking at the table, I'd be amazed if we finished in the top 10 and very surprised by a top 15 finish. And no, I wouldn't be happy with either, as this is another case of putting ourselves in a decent position then bottling it through a lack of managerial nous and players with balls.

Unless we bring in a few first teamers with a bit of fight in them, in January, then the next few months will be a steady decline. Even then, JDT's one trick pony approach will probably mean signings won't matter much. Its pretty desperate, isn't it? 

For the record I predicted we'll finish 12th, due to the quality of the league, we have a transfer window, and the belief we will pick up some wins rather than a complete spiral. Depends on who we sign but I don't hold much belief in the appointment team.

[tomphil]

It's a crazy league we know that but again it isn't the loss it's the end result and overall combination of errors on our part.

Got to give Rotherham credit but would you expect anything other than a tough day physically from a team fighting for survival ?

In order to get results from games like that or most away games in this division you have to match their desire physical stuff. We never do that's why you know 100% go a goal behind there'll be nothing from us we just keep trying the powder puff stuff then wilt.

If Hyam clears his lines as he so easily should have done then we aren't a goal behind but he likely might have earned a shout from the sidelines not to do that. He tried to lay it off on the edge of his own area and didn't get it right, that's stuff drilled into them on the training ground and a hallmark of JDTs style.

[Athlete]

19 minutes ago, booth said:

We may have conceded less goals but the goals we did concede were pretty damning.

Brereton scored more last season, that's not JDT's fault. Our pitiful attempts at goalscoring in the Boro and todays game aren't either. We gain six extra points if we score those chances. Pickering being a prick in the first minute wasn't. Gregg's answer to Pickering was Mola. Pickering would be better as a wide player as his crossing is decent, he just can't defend apart from the odd decent game.

Lots to criticise about JDT and I'm not completely convinced he's the man, but the club have a lot to answer for. Waggot, Broughton... What board allows a club to go without a proper striker for 18 months? What board allows a manager to sign loads of wingers with virtually no scoring record?

But then again, what board allows a club to lose £££'s on Rothwell, then more on Brereton? Imagine if they'd sold Brereton and invested it in a number 9 and a Danny Graham type.

Clueless from top to bottom. I doubt any manager could flourish here. Any talk of promotion is a joke. It'll never happen under Venkys.

We must be the only championship club with no premiership aspirations

[BankEnd Rover]

7 minutes ago, Ghost7 said:

The losses aren't just losses, they're no show hammerings. The combination of this manager, no funds and no ambition isn't going to work. One is going to have to give but I suspect we'll continue to drift along and that Tomasson will quit before ever getting fired by our passive owners.

Agreed….I think Tomasson will walk if he doesn’t get the support to bring in players…I mean it’s not Starting well 14 days in and not a sniff.

Edited January 14, 2023 by BankEnd Rover