v Bristol City (a) - 21/1/23

[jim mk2]

7 minutes ago, smiller14 said:

Seen some debate about Vale, and the best way to summarise it is that I went to the game and forgot he was playing. He was just anonymous. He made a run that created a bit of space for the goal, but it was the most basic run and if that's being used to big him up then we're really clutching at straws.

 

Vale should make a career for himself at League 2 level but he's clearly not a Championship player. He just doesn't have enough tools in his box. He's just filling a shirt and needs to be replaced in this window if the club is serious about trying to make the playoffs

Same applies to Gallagher, 

[smiller14]

8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It was a good run but I want my centre forward to be running towards the ball most of the time, not away from it. To score goals you’ve got to be in the penalty area and ideally in the 6 yard box.

It was decent enough, but it's what you expect really. And like you say, he rarely seems to be in the box - remember how good Rhodes was at finding space? Vale seems to do the opposite - he's often far too deep or holding hands with their centre half.

Now I'm not writing him off, but he's clearly not ready at the moment to flourish in our system. He just seems to disappear for long periods, but also doesn't seem to work his arse off in the way you'd expect from a young player eager to impress. Still a bit pissed off at him barely breaking a jog at Turf Moor, and the way he was so easily bypassed for the goal on the weekend was another example. He isn't quite lazy, but also often seems to be running at 75%.

The first half was a very tough watch. We were well organised, but just had nothing going forwards. We briefly improved second half until the red card killed it for us. I'm not sure if we are simply a few ingredients away from being a decent outfit (we looked very compact and controlled the game quite well) or whether any increase in ambition/urgency would cause us to unravel and get thumped. 

Either way, it wasn't one for the neutral. Purely anecdotally, and I don't necessarily agree, but the mood from talking to random fans was pretty negative and seems the jury is still out on JDT for many. I can sympathise; for a 10 hour round trip you want a bit of excitement, and thankfully Dack gave us a brief glimmer of that. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by smiller14

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

22 minutes ago, smiller14 said:

It was decent enough, but it's what you expect really. And like you say, he rarely seems to be in the box - remember how good Rhodes was at finding space? Vale seems to do the opposite - he's often far too deep or holding hands with their centre half.

Now I'm not writing him off, but he's clearly not ready at the moment to flourish in our system. He just seems to disappear for long periods, but also doesn't seem to work his arse off in the way you'd expect from a young player eager to impress. Still a bit pissed off at him barely breaking a jog at Turf Moor, and the way he was so easily bypassed for the goal on the weekend was another example. He isn't quite lazy, but also often seems to be running at 75%.

The first half was a very tough watch. We were well organised, but just had nothing going forwards. We briefly improved second half until the red card killed it for us. I'm not sure if we are simply a few ingredients away from being a decent outfit (we looked very compact and controlled the game quite well) or whether any increase in ambition/urgency would cause us to unravel and get thumped. 

Either way, it wasn't one for the neutral. Purely anecdotally, and I don't necessarily agree, but the mood from talking to random fans was pretty negative and seems the jury is still out on JDT for many. I can sympathise; for a 10 hour round trip you want a bit of excitement, and thankfully Dack gave us a brief glimmer of that. 

If you’re not getting much service up front you’ve got to work the centre halves more off the ball. Move around yourself constantly, even if it’s just a 10 yard jog from one centre half to the other , get them moving, make them think all the time, back into them ( accidentally of course ), tread on a few toes, wear them down etc. Don’t just let the game pass you by.

Playing up front with no service is the most thankless task in football. Being honest whoever plays up front for Rovers at the moment is going to be struggling. We don’t get in our opponents half enough and we don’t get there quickly enough. We very rarely get around the side of teams and we rarely see a clever ball played through from midfield. Saturday’s goal was an exception that proves we can actually break teams down. We need at least half a dozen moves like that in the game.

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[smiller14]

6 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If you’re not getting much service up front you’ve got to work the centre halves more off the ball. Move around yourself constantly, even if it’s just a 10 yard jog from one centre half to the other , get them moving, make them think all the time, back into them ( accidentally of course ), tread on a few toes, wear them down etc. Don’t just let the game pass you by.

Playing up front with no service is the most thankless task in football. Being honest whoever plays up front for Rovers at the moment is going to be struggling. We don’t get in our opponents half enough and we don’t get there quickly enough. We very rarely get around the side of teams and we rarely see a clever ball played through from midfield. Saturday’s goal was an exception that proves we can actually break teams down. We need at least half a dozen moves like that in the game.

 

Agreed - far too easy to play against, especially when BBD is having a quiet/poor game. It's all a bit slow/pedestrian. 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, smiller14 said:

Agreed - far too easy to play against, especially when BBD is having a quiet/poor game. It's all a bit slow/pedestrian. 

 

We always play in front of teams. That’s because we are too slow in transition. By the time we’ve passed it along the back four a few times and give the keeper a couple of touches our opponents are all back into shape.

We very rarely get around the side of teams and turn them so they’re running back towards their own goal. When we did it on Saturday Dack found space by the simple expedient of slowing down his run and letting the defenders run away from him. They couldn’t watch Dack and the ball at the same time.
 

When teams are playing in front of you it’s a lot easier to watch the ball and your immediate opponent.

[joey_big_nose]

33 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We always play in front of teams. That’s because we are too slow in transition. By the time we’ve passed it along the back four a few times and give the keeper a couple of touches our opponents are all back into shape.

We very rarely get around the side of teams and turn them so they’re running back towards their own goal. When we did it on Saturday Dack found space by the simple expedient of slowing down his run and letting the defenders run away from him. They couldn’t watch Dack and the ball at the same time.
 

When teams are playing in front of you it’s a lot easier to watch the ball and your immediate opponent.

I think other clubs have figured out if we cant get behind them weve got very little to offer. So as long as they keep a pretty deep line then we arent scoring. Also explains why we cant back into games as oppo just sits deep. 

Figuring out how to create chances when the opposition is sitting in is our number one challenge imo.

Thats why Id say our number one recruitment target is someone who really worries the opposition in the box, who makes them want to push out. If we had someone like that it then 1) theyll score goals from crosses 2) the opposition trying to push up in turn makes opportunities for others to score on the break.

That said, as you say, we seem to have gone backwards on our bread and butter which is breakaway goals. For a long under Mowbray then JDT we were really really good at them, but last few months we slow the move down or misplace passes.

Edited January 23, 2023 by joey_big_nose

[booth]

3 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Blake was bone idle. I remember him coming on late in the game when we had just gone down to 10 men ( Utd at home ? )  Obviously Souey had told him - “ You’ve only got 10 minutes, I need you to chase everything down, don’t give their back four a minute, run your tripes out “. 
 

I don’t think he got above a jog all the time he was on. We were under siege and he did nothing to help the defence out. I think Souey lost it with him after that and moved him on as soon as he could.

I remember Blake playing for Bolton and thinking I'm glad we don't have him. He was slowly jogging around the pitch not getting involved. The ball came across for him and he put no effort in to get to it. Then as his team mates all ran back into position he just strolled back.

Then we signed him 🤦‍♂️

[BlackburnEnd75]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We always play in front of teams. That’s because we are too slow in transition. By the time we’ve passed it along the back four a few times and give the keeper a couple of touches our opponents are all back into shape.

We very rarely get around the side of teams and turn them so they’re running back towards their own goal. When we did it on Saturday Dack found space by the simple expedient of slowing down his run and letting the defenders run away from him. They couldn’t watch Dack and the ball at the same time.
 

When teams are playing in front of you it’s a lot easier to watch the ball and your immediate opponent.

We are too slow transitioning largely because 1) we don't have a natural out ball, like a winger or a Rothwell type cm who can carry it 30 yards upfield or a decent target man who we clip it into and play off. 2) we play very narrow which means when we get the ball back we don't have as many natural options to move it quickly and we revert to slow passing at the back to allow players to get in attacking positions.

The narrowness is helping us be harder to play through which I think we are but we need to adapt as at the moment we aren't creating enough chances and are too easy to defend against.

[J*B]

Not that I agree with it, but I don't think JDT wants a player moving forwards with the ball like Rothwell did. If he had his way I think he'd play Buckley and Morton in centre midfield and their entire remit is receive the ball and move it forwards quickly. 

[Miller11]

2 minutes ago, J*B said:

Not that I agree with it, but I don't think JDT wants a player moving forwards with the ball like Rothwell did. If he had his way I think he'd play Buckley and Morton in centre midfield and their entire remit is receive the ball and move it forwards quickly. 

He’s said as much. Dolan and Markanday are only ever praised for “taking less touches”. No dribbling, he’d prefer it passed back to Kaminski.

[JacknOry]

On 22/01/2023 at 19:37, JoeH said:

Vale has scored every chance he's had

1.16

[roversfan99]

And his inability to ever get into another goalscoring position isn't a good thing.

[tomphil]

What do we create ?

Can't really judge Vale on chances converted because we create very little although he does look very much like just another water carrier modern day forward.

There's more flair in Sunday league than seen in the Championship at times.

Edited January 24, 2023 by tomphil