v Wigan Athletic (h) - 6/2/23

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

I have the same view.

I think they're erring on the side of caution for the sake of possession vs taking a gamble.

Doesn't help that every time one of them loses the ball trying to make a 'progressive pass' they get pelters from 80% of the ground. Can't have it both ways.

[arbitro]

4 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Doesn't help that every time one of them loses the ball trying to make a 'progressive pass' they get pelters from 80% of the ground. Can't have it both ways.

So it's the fans fault?

Do you honestly think that is why they don't play progressively because they might get some stick? 

[dingles staying down 4ever]

52 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I'm talking specifically about being in their central defensive position and the possibility of advancing to or beyond the half way line. We don't move teams around enough. Our sluggish and predictable passing at the back simply enables opponents to keep their shape.

Totally agree in what you saying and the example I gave was a case in point.

 

What I will say there were cases in the first half where Wharton got pulled into midfield and got turned. It left a huge gap in defence which a better side than Wigan would have exploited. Having defenders who can come forward is fine if you have midfielders or full backs that are quick enough mentally and physically who can get into a covering position. Im sorry but we havent got that so this maybe the reason they are being told not to leave their stations.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

11 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Doesn't help that every time one of them loses the ball trying to make a 'progressive pass' they get pelters from 80% of the ground. Can't have it both ways.

But they get pelters for the 56 passes sideways which invites a high press from the opposition

[Hasta]

20 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Doesn't help that every time one of them loses the ball trying to make a 'progressive pass' they get pelters from 80% of the ground. Can't have it both ways.

That's absolute nonsense. 

[Wheelton Blue]

It's a vicous circle...

The players are told to play it safe and retain possession

They play it safe, passing sideways and backwards

The fans get frustrated

When a more inventive pass is attempted, but it doesn't pay off, the fans get more frustrated

The players then play it even safer....

Edited February 7, 2023 by Wheelton Blue

[tomphil]

They brought it on themselves last night, yes fans were getting frustrated but that was after about 70 mins of stodge then subs that didn't go down too well.

When 7 mins of injury time went up it was Wigan bottom of the league looking like they were trying to win it not hang on for a vital point.

[booth]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

When we were off form, Mowbray was rightly criticised.

We hardly invested loads in January, our main signing instantly got injured, aside from that the loan signing of Giles is comparable to Thomas, chuck in Hedges and Zeefuik on loan and its hardly a huge difference.

I am in agreement of the flaws throughout the club, Broughton/Waggott and of course the owners all bigger problems than Tomasson but he isnt exempt now from criticism just as Mowbray wasnt.

My point isn't that we should be banging in the goals. My point is that we don't look like a team that can attack at all.

I am not accepting that our current squad shouldnt be capable of creating more than 1 decent chance at home to bottom of the league Wigan who usually leak goals.

We for months havent played like a team that knows how it is expected to attack or works on its attacking. If we created chances and then missed them, maybe the point about the lack of a goalscorer would be more pertinent, indeed we didnt have Dack available last season.

Also, why are we not a threat from set pieces?

If you genuinely believe that this side is attacking as well as it could do with the personnel we have then fair enough, the manager cant be blamed. 

I do. I think we have 7 or 8 players in the squad worth keeping.

If we’d have added a decent midfielder and a striker, then that’s better. Add a couple of fullbacks and we’ve got a decent team.

I just don’t believe anyone could get a tune out of that team for an entire season. Every week we start with ten players, sometimes less.

[DeeCee]

17 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

“ Bang “.

Billy Sharp (e missing? 🙄)

[RoversTilliDie]

Its the worst performance i've seen at Ewood last night, punchless in attack clueless in seattle when on the ball, and careless passing giving the ball back to Wigan every time they got it. The only bright spark for me was Sorba Thomas the winger on loan from Huddersfield who put some decent crosses in the box, pity are 2nd rate strikeforce did'nt get on the end of one. We will be lucky to get 5'000 at the next home match.

[jim mk2]

As I see it at the moment  (may have missed some players out)

Goalkeepers: Kaminski and Pears are a decent No 1 and No 2

Centre backs: Hyam is fine; S Wharton and Carter - jury out, still developing and prone to errors, Phillips in the wings; Ayala I'd let go. Ideally we could do with a new centre half

Full backs: Brittain was good when he was fit, but how long is he out?; Pickering is OK but often struggles and probably needs replacing (Giles would have been fine). JRC can fill in but 1, possibly 2 full backs needed

Midfield: Buckley, Travis, JRC have their good days but lack pace and physical presence. A Wharton and Garrett still works in progress. Morton can go back. At least 2 strong, experienced players required to strengthen the team

Forwards: Problem area. Gallagher and Vale clearly never going to cut it. Brereton is leaving and probably should be dropped permanently. Dack struggling to regain his old form. Thomas - early days and he's on loan. Do we wonder why we struggle to score goals? We're at least 2 and possibly 3 strikers short

So to my mind if we were genuinely going to challenge for promotion that's at least 6 and possibly 8 players that we should have been looking at in January

Wigan signed 8 in the window apparently - why couldn't we? 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by jim mk2

[RoversTilliDie]

2 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

As I see it at the moment  (may have missed some players out)

Goalkeepers: Kaminski and Pears are a decent No 1 and No 2

Centre backs: Hyam is fine; S Wharton and Carter - jury out, still developing and prone to errors, Phillips in the wings; Ayala I'd let go. Ideally we could do with a new centre half

Full backs: Brittain was good when he was fit, but how long is he out?; Pickering is OK but often struggles and probably needs replacing (Giles would have been fine). JRC can fill in but 1, possibly 2 full backs needed

Midfield: Buckley, Travis, JRC have their good days but lack pace and physical presence. A Wharton and Garrett still works in progress. Morton can go back. At least 2 strong, experienced players required to strengthen the team

Forwards: Problem area. Gallagher and Vale clearly never going to cut it. Brereton is leaving and probably should be dropped permanently. Dack struggling to regain his old form. Thomas - early days and he's on loan. Do we wonder why we struggle to score goals? We're at least 2 and possibly 3 strikers short

So to my mind if we were genuinely going to challenge for promotion that's at least 6 and possibly 8 players that we should have been looking at in January

 

I agree entirely, when was the last time Gallagher and Diaz scored for Blackburn Rovers, probably some time before the World cup in November. Which is around 3 month ago. Diaz walks around the pitch with a big smile on his face like he could'nt give a toss, because he's off to Villareal in the Summer. He's no longer part of Blackburn Rovers so stick him on the bench for the rest of the season and replace him with a striker who's hearts with Blackburn Rovers.

[ben_the_beast]

Just read that was Wigans first clean sheet in 15 games. Their last clean sheet... against us.

[jim mk2]

2 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

Just read that was Wigans first clean sheet in 15 games. Their last clean sheet... against us.

☹️

[Dreams of 1995]

13 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

Just read that was Wigans first clean sheet in 15 games. Their last clean sheet... against us.

And herein lies the issue 

It was criminal not to bring a centre forward in during the summer. I like to think of myself as one of the more positive lot on here but I don’t have much good to say about our forward line up lately 

Vale and Gallagher are both way out of their depths. Gally can at least get a goal, but Vale has got to stop playing. I think we have Harry Leonard in the U23s so it’s about time he starts getting a chance 

Brereton can disappear for me. The purple patch was exactly that. He’s looked every bit the footballer pre-Covid, and something tells me not cashing in for £15m in January window during Mowbray was a bad decision. We all got caught up in Brereton-mania. I personally wouldn’t have taken the £8m this summer either, even if it was that, but even now I am starting to regret that decision too 

Our problem is up front. The back 4 and the central midfielders are doing their job - they are keeping the ball, keeping it tight and, apart from some shocking team performances throughout the season, have been let down by their strikers 

You cannot expect to keep a clean sheet in every game. You need your front line to defend from the front. The ball doesn’t stick, there’s no creativity and the lack of pace in any attack is so depressing to watch 

We need better forwards. Thomas is a start - but we need to drop Vale, Brereton and Gallagher and start looking at the likes of Dolan or Leonard. It can’t be any worse. 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Dreams of 1995

[G Somerset Rover]

20 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

Just read that was Wigans first clean sheet in 15 games. Their last clean sheet... against us.

We are the gift that keeps on giving. Whenever we play a team who are "winless in X", "haven't scored in X" or "haven't kept a clean sheet in X" then that is the time to "lump up" with the bookies in Mercers terms, as we, without doubt, will help that team out.

[RoversTilliDie]

It's the first time I am about to criticize our manager, he left Szmodics (whos scored nearly as many as Gallagher) on the bench along with Dolan who's got pace when he uses it. He also stuck with Vale, who's as effective as a bucket with a hole in it  up front. He could have gone up Witton Park last Sunday to find somebody more effective. If last nights performance continues, he will be lucky if a crowd turns up.

Edited February 7, 2023 by RoversTilliDie

[Ossydave]

47 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

Just read that was Wigans first clean sheet in 15 games. Their last clean sheet... against us.

And that's the worst part, their defence looked leggy and slow. Why wasn't Dolan involved? He can be a frustrating player but him and Thomas attacking from the left and right cutting inside would have causes them a lot more issues.

What baffles me is how oblivious JDT was to things like this, he was doing a full on Mowbray slump in the dugout for the most part.

If he's pissed off with the recruitment, I get it I really do, but don't just sulk about it, he's still got a job to do. If he can't be arsed then just walk.

Dack as a false 9 and Dolan and Thomas supporting either side for me next game.

I'd also be tempted to play JRC in midfield for a few games. He's much improved and looks like he gives a shit. Hopefully Brittain is fit soon or I'd even play Carter at right back, I thought he too played quite well last night.

Many players worryingly look low on confidence, none more so than Brereton. I don't think it's anything to do with him being on the move he's just desperately in need of a lift and a goal. I'd bench him, let him watch how the game is panning out and hopefully let him affect a game or 2 from the bench.

Set pieces were awful last night as well, against a team with clear weaknesses defending them.

I'm an average football fan and I'm able to identify obvious flaws, what is this fantastic backroom team doing apart from pissing about with numbers? The evidence is suggesting fuck all!

Edited February 7, 2023 by Ossydave

[roversfan99]

Brereton was very poor and has got a lot of deserved criticism and even questions about his committment. I also agree with the comments about the higher ups not doing an adequate job.

But there were times when he was essentially left wing back in a back 6 when we have literally the worst striker in the league up top. Surely that can't be right.

[Gav]

I didn't go last night, was there any sort of discontent at the shambles that was the January transfer window?

I mentioned it to Brum colleague of mine and even he was calling for 'You're not fit to run the club' chants.

 

[booth]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

As I see it at the moment  (may have missed some players out)

Goalkeepers: Kaminski and Pears are a decent No 1 and No 2

Centre backs: Hyam is fine; S Wharton and Carter - jury out, still developing and prone to errors, Phillips in the wings; Ayala I'd let go. Ideally we could do with a new centre half

Full backs: Brittain was good when he was fit, but how long is he out?; Pickering is OK but often struggles and probably needs replacing (Giles would have been fine). JRC can fill in but 1, possibly 2 full backs needed

Midfield: Buckley, Travis, JRC have their good days but lack pace and physical presence. A Wharton and Garrett still works in progress. Morton can go back. At least 2 strong, experienced players required to strengthen the team

Forwards: Problem area. Gallagher and Vale clearly never going to cut it. Brereton is leaving and probably should be dropped permanently. Dack struggling to regain his old form. Thomas - early days and he's on loan. Do we wonder why we struggle to score goals? We're at least 2 and possibly 3 strikers short

So to my mind if we were genuinely going to challenge for promotion that's at least 6 and possibly 8 players that we should have been looking at in January

Wigan signed 8 in the window apparently - why couldn't we? 

 

Agree with all of that apart from Dack who I think has been in good form recently. He's got such dross around him, it's limiting his game but at least he's trying to make things happen.

As for the transfer window, even if they'd brought in a midfielder and a striker it would have been an improvement, and may have enhanced the players around them. Even lower league clubs manage to bring players in, we'll be competing with them if this "frugality" carries on.

[booth]

46 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Brereton was very poor and has got a lot of deserved criticism and even questions about his committment. I also agree with the comments about the higher ups not doing an adequate job.

But there were times when he was essentially left wing back in a back 6 when we have literally the worst striker in the league up top. Surely that can't be right.

There were times when Brereton had the ball and simply gave it up because he didn't want to get kicked. Anyone notice that? He'd have been battling earlier in the season. Massively disappointed in Brereton, but even more so the club.

[tomphil]

39 minutes ago, Gav said:

I didn't go last night, was there any sort of discontent at the shambles that was the January transfer window?

I mentioned it to Brum colleague of mine and even he was calling for 'You're not fit to run the club' chants.

 

Non just the usual silence until a few boos when Dack was taken off.

Felt a bit sorry for the team coming to applaud the BBE at the end and getting nothing back, not a good performance but the effort was there.  Coping it for the failing of others to some degree.

[ben_the_beast]

9 minutes ago, booth said:

As for the transfer window, even if they'd brought in a midfielder and a striker it would have been an improvement, and may have enhanced the players around them. Even lower league clubs manage to bring players in, we'll be competing with them if this "frugality" carries on.

Considering how lacking we are up front we should have been all over Chris Martin as a free agent, but Qpr have snapped him up already. He may not be mobile but he'd still offer a hell of a lot more than Vale or Gallagher. 

[NeilInBristol]

1 hour ago, Ossydave said:

And that's the worst part, their defence looked leggy and slow. Why wasn't Dolan involved? He can be a frustrating player but him and Thomas attacking from the left and right cutting inside would have causes them a lot more issues.

What baffles me is how oblivious JDT was to things like this, he was doing a full on Mowbray slump in the dugout for the most part.

If he's pissed off with the recruitment, I get it I really do, but don't just sulk about it, he's still got a job to do. If he can't be arsed then just walk.

Dack as a false 9 and Dolan and Thomas supporting either side for me next game.

I'd also be tempted to play JRC in midfield for a few games. He's much improved and looks like he gives a shit. Hopefully Brittain is fit soon or I'd even play Carter at right back, I thought he too played quite well last night.

Many players worryingly look low on confidence, none more so than Brereton. I don't think it's anything to do with him being on the move he's just desperately in need of a lift and a goal. I'd bench him, let him watch how the game is panning out and hopefully let him affect a game or 2 from the bench.

Set pieces were awful last night as well, against a team with clear weaknesses defending them.

I'm an average football fan and I'm able to identify obvious flaws, what is this fantastic backroom team doing apart from pissing about with numbers? The evidence is suggesting fuck all!

Do we have backroom staff? Do venkys allow JDT to have a team of coaches?