v Wigan Athletic (h) - 6/2/23

[Polky]

Big performance is needed tomorrow! This result will have set the tone for the rest of the season after a shambolic deadline day. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Mowbray played centre half all his career. Did you ever have the impression we were well organised defensively ?

[Guest]

Jack Vale will come good, create some chances for him and see. If he misses those chances then fair enough, but you can't write a player off who so many professionals are impressed with.

People keep talking about his time with Halifax which winds me up, the manager he had there absolutely adores him and he played him as a right-sided midfielder. Not everything is so black and white in terms of the goals return with that loan.  

@wilsdenrover I like Vale's movement and I believe him to be a great finisher. I've seen him for years now across his 21's (23's)/First Team and Loan spells. He's definitely a better natural finisher than some of the other 9's we've got.

[roverandout]

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

So you are discounting his 2 cup goals which he took very well? 

Also how many chances has he actually had in championship to score? 

He isn't a target man striker. He has good movement, can finish and decent link up play. 

He can't cucking finish. How do you know? He doesn't look like scoring. His movement is garbage. He jogs around the pitch but nothing else 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Mowbray played centre half all his career. Did you ever have the impression we were well organised defensively ?

Totally separate argument. You're talking about a managers old playing position automatically making the players we have in that position really good.

I'm not claiming that "JDT was a striker so Jack Vale automatically is great", I'm claiming JDT was a striker and if he didn't think there was something to come good in him, he probably wouldn't be persisting with him, as he definitely understands the qualities and demands of that role.

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Mowbray played centre half all his career. Did you ever have the impression we were well organised defensively ?

At a much lower level than JDT played.

[Guest]

Just now, roverandout said:

He can't cucking finish

Based on?

[roverandout]

6 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I seem to recall you saying he'll be at Chorley around half an hour before he scored away at Norwich... I think he proved you wrong that day.

A couple of goals a season doesn't make him adequate 

[arbitro]

3 minutes ago, JoeH said:

A manager who knows football better than anyone on this board, who played in the position we are discussing, is absolutely relevant.

That's a rich thing to say Joe. Having played at the top level doesn't make you a man who knows football better than anybody. That's the arrogant perception amongst a lot of players and managers who believe because you haven't played professionally you don't know the game.

The best pupils don't make the best teachers.

[roverandout]

Just now, JoeH said:

Based on?

Because top strikers get themselves in those positions.  Maybe he is a natural finisher and my point is moot but he doesn't even come close to getting himself in those positions.  I would love to have a natural goal scorer come from the academy but he's shown zilch so far

[Exiled_Rover]

4 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Jack Vale will come good, create some chances for him and see. If he misses those chances then fair enough, but you can't write a player off who so many professionals are impressed with.

People keep talking about his time with Halifax which winds me up, the manager he had there absolutely adores him and he played him as a right-sided midfielder. Not everything is so black and white in terms of the goals return with that loan.  

@wilsdenrover I like Vale's movement and I believe him to be a great finisher. I've seen him for years now across his 21's (23's)/First Team and Loan spells. He's definitely a better natural finisher than some of the other 9's we've got.

His workrate is diabolical and he gets brushed off the ball far too easily. He's 21 (nearly 22!), not some 18 year old kid. 

He might become a L1 / L2 player, but he's not going to make it in the Championship.

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, roverandout said:

A couple of goals a season doesn't make him adequate 

No, but it makes him what we have got.

[Mattyblue]

Not a lot of alternatives up top, so let’s hope he does come good, but for a striker to be nearly 22 and never have scored a goal in League football… it surely has to be soon if he wants a career at this level?

Edited February 5, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Guest]

1 minute ago, arbitro said:

That's the arrogant perception amongst a lot of players and managers who believe because you haven't played professionally you don't know the game.

Oh I sympathise with that. I see a lot of that in the industry and it's changing somewhat. But there's certainly a discussion to be had about the knowledge that playing at the very top of football as a striker gives you as a manager.

[roverandout]

Just now, rigger said:

No, but it makes him what we have got.

And that's down to the recruitment team

[roverandout]

Just now, JoeH said:

Oh I sympathise with that. I see a lot of that in the industry and it's changing somewhat. But there's certainly a discussion to be had about the knowledge that playing at the very top of football as a striker gives you as a manager.

I'm thinking you work for rovers in some way 

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, arbitro said:

That's a rich thing to say Joe. Having played at the top level doesn't make you a man who knows football better than anybody. That's the arrogant perception amongst a lot of players and managers who believe because you haven't played professionally you don't know the game.

The best pupils don't make the best teachers.

But they usually make better teachers, than the worst pupils.

[wilsdenrover]

5 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Jack Vale will come good, create some chances for him and see. If he misses those chances then fair enough, but you can't write a player off who so many professionals are impressed with.

People keep talking about his time with Halifax which winds me up, the manager he had there absolutely adores him and he played him as a right-sided midfielder. Not everything is so black and white in terms of the goals return with that loan.  

@wilsdenrover I like Vale's movement and I believe him to be a great finisher. I've seen him for years now across his 21's (23's)/First Team and Loan spells. He's definitely a better natural finisher than some of the other 9's we've got.

Thanks for that - from what I’ve read in here it seems you’re in the minority but I’m sure everybody hopes that he proves you to be correct 

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Oh I sympathise with that. I see a lot of that in the industry and it's changing somewhat. But there's certainly a discussion to be had about the knowledge that playing at the very top of football as a striker gives you as a manager.

Alan Shearer?

[chaddyrovers]

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

No, a goal is a goal. But in general he has offered very little goal threat and does not tally up with a striker who has supposedly good movement. It isn't by chance that our best chances fall to Brereton and Dack, they can sniff out chances. 

Decent link up play? You must be watching a different player to me.

 

How many chances has Vale had to score this season in the league? 

Dack and BBD are more experience players so I would say unfair comparison 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

7 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Jack Vale will come good, create some chances for him and see. If he misses those chances then fair enough, but you can't write a player off who so many professionals are impressed with.

People keep talking about his time with Halifax which winds me up, the manager he had there absolutely adores him and he played him as a right-sided midfielder. Not everything is so black and white in terms of the goals return with that loan.  

@wilsdenrover I like Vale's movement and I believe him to be a great finisher. I've seen him for years now across his 21's (23's)/First Team and Loan spells. He's definitely a better natural finisher than some of the other 9's we've got.

The days of strikers just hanging around waiting for things to happen, or somebody setting them up, are long gone. You’ve got to have a presence. That was my beef with Rhodes, most of the time he didn’t contribute anything to the way the team played.

[J*B]

15 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I seem to recall you saying he'll be at Chorley around half an hour before he scored away at Norwich... I think he proved you wrong that day.

The two aren’t intrinsically linked - Adam Henley was MOTM at Old Trafford playing against Ronaldo and he plays for Chorley now. 

[Exiled_Rover]

39 minutes ago, Gav said:

138 appearances and 28 goals the last time I looked, he’s been a good servant for this club, JDT also thinks he good enough by keep picking him.

Trust the professionals, not the greengrocers, welders and van drivers I say 😉

Genuinely, who else would JDT pick? He's bereft of forward options.

[Gav]

5 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Genuinely, who else would JDT pick? He's bereft of forward options.

If a player isn’t good enough he wouldn’t get in the team week in week out. He’d play Brereton in Gallagher position, change formations, plenty of options to plug that gap.

Managers keep picking him, 138 appearances, ask yourself why.

 

[Hasta]

28 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Jack Vale will come good, create some chances for him and see. If he misses those chances then fair enough, but you can't write a player off who so many professionals are impressed with.

I’ve not been impressed with Vale but I’m not writing him off completely.

However strikers positioning and instinct is a huge factor in their ability. Dack has started scoring in the last few games and also had the two best chances of the game for rovers against Birmingham. It’s not luck that those chances are coming to Dack, it’s because he has an instinct to get into the right positions.

Its telling how we create for him, but not for Vale.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Hasta