Appeal to EFL

[Oldgregg86]

10 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

I have sent my next email to SW:

"Dear Mr Waggott,

You may recall that I emailed you on 2nd February to express my disappointment and concern at the problems regarding the failure to sign Lewis O'Brien and Ethan Brierley; Christine kindly acknowledged my email and said she had passed on my comments.

Following the announcement this evening that the appeal to independent arbitration has failed, and the club has announced the reluctant acceptance of this decision, it is imperative for the fanbase that a thorough, speedy and transparent investigation of what happened, who and how, takes place. Given where the club now finds itself, both in terms of league position and cup qualification, following the playing staff's sterling efforts of late especially, the signing of O'Brien in particular would've been of tremendous value to the club's short & long term aspirations on both fronts, but due to what appear to be significant errors on the club's part can no longer be called upon.

As stated previously I am a long time season ticket holder who takes a rational view of the fates of the club, good and bad. I am not normally moved to express my thoughts in this fashion, but am so disappointed at what's happened I feel I must. The club just cannot be making such significant administrative misjudgments as this if expects to be taken seriously by current & prospective players, staff and, of course, fans.

There must be some tangible accountability for what has happened, as the club's fans deserve a full and Frank explanation and apology.

I look forward to hearing from you directly as soon as possible."

For what it's worth.. .

Don’t drink the tea 

[AllRoverAsia]

18 minutes ago, goozburger said:

I expect the club will pay legal costs for the EFL. Perhaps the costs won't stop there, either. Step forward Lewis O'Brien, his representatives, and Nottingham Forest.

It's far from over in the worst way possible. O'Brien won't set foot in Brockhall ever again. Thanks Steve, Gregg, and Ian. Resign. Now.

They would be foolish not to.

[Mercer]

26 minutes ago, goozburger said:

I expect the club will pay legal costs for the EFL. Perhaps the costs won't stop there, either. Step forward Lewis O'Brien, his representatives, and Nottingham Forest.

I posted the same on here at the time but one or two posters thought it was ludicrous.  Well I think the chickens are about to come home to well and truly roost.

I think the report is damning and the Rovers haven't a leg to stand on.  Very much doubt this will end up in court but I would think there will be very, very substantial compensatory settlements.

[Miller11]

I think the appeal actually succeeded in its primary aim. There’s loads of “fuck the EFL” posts all over social media from Rovers fans, and the whole invented narrative about a typo and a relegation clause is still alive and well.

Despite all the evidence we submitted doing nothing but prove complete incompetence at our end, there’s plenty of Rovers fans happy to play the victim. It’s astonishing.

Reading between the lines, I reckon Greg was too busy playing the genial host, and Silvester was completely disorganised and flapping. It’s all typically slopey shouldered from everyone involved. Confused reporting lines and undefined remits strikes again.

[Mashed Potatoes]

9 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I posted the same on here at the time but one or two posters thought it was ludicrous.  Well I think the chickens are about to come home to well and truly roost.

I think the report is damning and the Rovers haven't a leg to stand on.  Very much doubt this will end up in court but I would think there will be very, very substantial compensatory settlements.

They would have to prove loss to have a case against us.

[jim mk2]

O’Brien will want compensation. His career has effectively been put on hold if not set back by 6 months to a year through no fault of his own. His earning power has possibly been reduced. This could cost Rkvers big time 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 hours ago, R0verb0y said:

We certainly seem to be a very dysfunctional club.

From what I read on here, if JDT wanted players recruiting during the recent opening of the transfer window, he had a higher priority for strengthening other positions in the squad than even as quality a midfielder O'Brien is said to be.

The club had had plenty of warning that the window would be closing shortly after the final whistle had blown in an away game the best part of 100 miles away from Ewood.

As I sometimes write in posts on here, I am so far from being ITK that - in this case - I don't know how the club office staff operates. So I don't know if it's a perk of the office staff's jobs that they can go to away games for free, if they want to.
Whether it is or not, surely someone in the club's hierarchy - yes, Mr. Waggott, I am thinking of you - should have said, "We will need some staff in the office until 11.00 pm in order to ensure that any transfers which are pending that evening can be processed smoothly and before the transfer deadline."

It certainly seems that nobody took responsibility - for establishing such an arrangement. Consequently, and even though someone at the EFL wanted an answer to a highly unlikely hypothetical question, we have been found responsible for two transfers not going through before the deadline.

There could be quite a lot of reputational damage for the club in future transfer windows following this sad business. I don't expect the club's CEO to understand this; unlike us, he probably isn't a fan of the club. But for me - and I would be surprised if I were the only fan to feel like this - this episode has taken the edge off what JDT appears to be achieving with the players.

I’ve said this a million times since the Chokers rocked up. If the people with the final say in company business are not hands on is it any wonder that operations are a shambles. It’s the old “ What happens when the teacher leaves the classroom “ story.

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 minute ago, jim mk2 said:

O’Brien will want compensation. His career has effectively been put on hold if not set back by 6 months to a year through no fault of his own. His earning power has possibly been reduced. This could cost Rkvers big time 

O'Brien was passed over for inclusion in Forest's squad in favour of a 33 year old journeyman in Andre Ayew who had been playing in the Qatar league and hadn't scored a goal in the Premier League for 5 years. He would be better advised taking a long hard look at himself and establishing why Forest are happy to move him on after just half a season .He signed a long term contract with Forest so is not losing out financially.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

O’Brien will want compensation. His career has effectively been put on hold if not set back by 6 months to a year through no fault of his own. His earning power has possibly been reduced. This could cost Rkvers big time 

We could easily find ourselves in the position of having to pay his wages or part of them without actually being able to play him. 
 

Only at Rovers under these fools.

[wilsdenrover]

Why would we have to pay O’Brien’s wages when he still has a contract with Forest?

Appearance bonuses etc I could just about understand but not basic wage 

O’Brien himself would have to mitigate any perceived losses - I believe he can still move to the MLS, it might not be ideal for him but it is still an option that’s available.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[47er]

15 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I think the appeal actually succeeded in its primary aim. There’s loads of “fuck the EFL” posts all over social media from Rovers fans, and the whole invented narrative about a typo and a relegation clause is still alive and well.

Despite all the evidence we submitted doing nothing but prove complete incompetence at our end, there’s plenty of Rovers fans happy to play the victim. It’s astonishing.

Reading between the lines, I reckon Greg was too busy playing the genial host, and Silvester was completely disorganised and flapping. It’s all typically slopey shouldered from everyone involved. Confused reporting lines and undefined remits strikes again.

Its an utter embarrassment. No other team did it but we did it twice.

You just can't get around that.

[jim mk2]

8 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

O'Brien was passed over for inclusion in Forest's squad in favour of a 33 year old journeyman in Andre Ayew who had been playing in the Qatar league and hadn't scored a goal in the Premier League for 5 years. He would be better advised taking a long hard look at himself and establishing why Forest are happy to move him on after just half a season .He signed a long term contract with Forest so is not losing out financially.

It’s not his fault he’s out of favour at Forest. Managers take a decision in players and live or die by them. O’Brien’s contract will include clauses for how many first team appearances he makes either at Forest or Rovers, and he won’t be getting them. If you’re trying to argue that Rovers won’t suffer financially by all this I’m afraid you’re just trolling again 

Edited March 2, 2023 by jim mk2

[Mercer]

22 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

They would have to prove loss to have a case against us.

Well for starters, Forest are now paying wages and employer's NI at 13/14% that they wouldn't have been doing should he have joined Rovers on loan.  Seemingly, Rovers were meeting O'Brien's wages in full so that's at least £500k over the loan period.

If Rovers get promoted, Forest would have pocketed a £10million fee and would have freed themselves of the remaining obligations on O'Brien's contract - that's likely to be no less than £5million.

Then you have what O'Brien might want for Rovers stalling his career and maybe putting it into regression.

Should Rovers narrowly miss promotion when O'Brien might have given them an edge then that's perhaps a £500million opportunity cost including parachute payments in the event of relegation.

What a sorry and potentially huge financial mess.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Mercer

[Mashed Potatoes]

7 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

It’s not his fault he’s out of favour at Forest. Managers take a decision in players and live or die by them. O’Brien’s contract will include clauses for how many first team appearances he makes either at Forest or Rovers, an SC gee Ed eontt try be getting them. If you’re trying to argue that Rovers won’t suffer financially by all this I’m afraid you’re just trolling again 

I think to suffer financially we would have to have been in breach of contract and the other party would have to prove loss. That's not trolling - that's the law. It's obviously down to O'Brien that he hasn't made the grade at Forest. There was no guarantee that he would get appearance money with us.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Mashed Potatoes

[wilsdenrover]

1 minute ago, Mercer said:

Well for starters, Forest are now paying wages and employer's NI at 13/14% that they wouldn't have been doing should he have joined Rovers on loan.  Seemingly, Rovers were meeting O'Brien's wages in full so that's at least £500k.

If Rovers get promoted, Forest would have pocketed a £10million fee and would have freed themselves of the remaining obligations on O'Brien's contract - that's likely to be no less than £5million.

Then you have what O'Brien might want for Rovers stalling his career and maybe putting it into regression.

Should Rovers narrowly miss promotion when O'Brien might have given them an edge then that's perhapsa £500million opportunity cost including parachute payments in the event of relegation.

What a sorry and potentially huge financial mess.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Purely on the £10 million fee, surely you’ll concede that if we’re not promoted Forest wouldn’t have been due the money and if we are they could still choose to sell him to us for the same fee.

I think they’d find it hard to prove , if we don’t go up, that we would have done if the signing had been completed.

Huge potential losses indeed, but I’d argue very few provable ones.

Still a big fuck up though!

[Mashed Potatoes]

2 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Well for starters, Forest are now paying wages and employer's NI at 13/14% that they wouldn't have been doing should he have joined Rovers on loan.  Seemingly, Rovers were meeting O'Brien's wages in full so that's at least £500k.

If Rovers get promoted, Forest would have pocketed a £10million fee and would have freed themselves of the remaining obligations on O'Brien's contract - that's likely to be no less than £5million.

Then you have what O'Brien might want for Rovers stalling his career and maybe putting it into regression.

Should Rovers narrowly miss promotion when O'Brien might have given them an edge then that's perhapsa £500million opportunity cost including parachute payments in the event of relegation.

What a sorry and potentially huge financial mess.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Forest have put his career in to regression by signing him and then swiftly arriving at the conclusion they'd rather have Andre Ayew in their squad. I think to be sued by Forest we have to be in breach of contract. If say right at the last minute we had changed our minds and said we don't want him is there anything they could do then ?

[DaveyB]

14 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

O’Brien will want compensation. His career has effectively been put on hold if not set back by 6 months to a year through no fault of his own. His earning power has possibly been reduced. This could cost Rkvers big time 

O’Brien’s career is on hold for 6 months because Forest chose not to include him in their 25-man squad - not because Rovers f*cked up the transfer. We could have changed our mind and pulled out of the transfer at the last minute, or LOB could have done, and the outcome would have been exactly the same. 
 

Transfers break down all the time for all kinds of reasons - yes we don’t come out of this smelling like roses, but any claim for compensation from either Forest or LOB would be laughed out of court.

If not presumably we can claim compensation from Nice for cancelling the loan of that striker at the last minute, or from Denis Undav for changing his mind and deciding to stay with Brighton 

[47er]

I'm assuming that, since the EFL ruled that the transfer couldn't go ahead, then O'Brien remains a Forest player and subject to their contract with him.

Any contract we had would have been nullified by the EFL's decision.

If we have to pay him then we can play him, he'd be our player!

 

[wilsdenrover]

9 minutes ago, 47er said:

Its an utter embarrassment. No other team did it but we did it twice.

You just can't get around that.

Did we take the other one to arbitration too! Im only asking as I’m wondering if we made identical mistakes or different ones!

[47er]

Just now, wilsdenrover said:

Did we take the other one to arbitration too! Im only asking as I’m wondering if we made identical mistakes or different ones!

I thought we didn't. Made some sort of pledge about looking after him and a suggestion of him coming to us next season

[wilsdenrover]

I don’t think Forest could have chosen to put O’Brien on their squad list whilst we were appealing but I may not wrong.

I personally think the squad lists are a bad idea in this case without them Forest could now choose to play him should they wish to do so.

[Mercer]

1 minute ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Forest have put his career in to regression by signing him and then swiftly arriving at the conclusion they'd rather have Andre Ayew in their squad. I think to be sued by Forest we have to be in breach of contract. If say right at the last minute we had changed our minds and said we don't want him is there anything they could do then ?

The contract was frustrated by Rovers negligence / incompetence as evidenced by the arbitration appeal report headed by KC.

It's that simple.

[Guest]

He's due nothing. Be like going for a job interview, not getting it and then trying to sue on grounds of loss of earning. 

[Guest]

Just now, Mercer said:

The contract was frustrated by Rovers negligence / incompetence as evidenced by the arbitration appeal report headed by KC.

It's that simple.

The 'contract' is a piece of paper with a name on it until it becomes legally binding. Means absolutely nothing.

[wilsdenrover]

4 minutes ago, DaveyB said:

O’Brien’s career is on hold for 6 months because Forest chose not to include him in their 25-man squad - not because Rovers f*cked up the transfer. We could have changed our mind and pulled out of the transfer at the last minute, or LOB could have done, and the outcome would have been exactly the same. 
 

Transfers break down all the time for all kinds of reasons - yes we don’t come out of this smelling like roses, but any claim for compensation from either Forest or LOB would be laughed out of court.

If not presumably we can claim compensation from Nice for cancelling the loan of that striker at the last minute, or from Denis Undav for changing his mind and deciding to stay with Brighton 

I think you’d have to prove negligence for costs to be playable.

At what point incompetence becomes negligence, I don’t know…