v WBA (a) - 15/02/23

[arbitro]

9 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I couldn’t watch last nights game, I had a meeting I had to attend. Afterwards I texted my son as usual. His view - “ Good point but grim to watch “.

Compared to several away games this season (Reading, Sheffield United, Cardiff, Wigan, Coventry, Burnley, Rotherham) it was far better. After them games I was really downbeat but after the last two away games I saw far more positives and reasons for optimism. In each of them games we were flat and listless, last night and on Saturday there was more intensity and desire.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Compared to several away games this season (Reading, Sheffield United, Cardiff, Wigan, Coventry, Burnley, Rotherham) it was far better. After them games I was really downbeat but after the last two away games I saw far more positives and reasons for optimism. In each of them games we were flat and listless, last night and on Saturday there was more intensity and desire.

He was watching it on TV. You get a more realistic view of what’s actually happening out on the pitch if you are there in the flesh.

[Wheelton Blue]

I watched it on RoversTV & thought we played OK.

There was plenty of effort for sure, just the usual impotence attack wise.

[Exiled_Rover]

26 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

I watched it on RoversTV & thought we played OK.

There was plenty of effort for sure, just the usual impotence attack wise.

Highlighted in the second half (just before he was taken off) when Thomas drilled a ball across the 6 yard box to nobody. His 3 attacking teammates were nowhere to be seen.

[joey_big_nose]

39 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Compared to several away games this season (Reading, Sheffield United, Cardiff, Wigan, Coventry, Burnley, Rotherham) it was far better. After them games I was really downbeat but after the last two away games I saw far more positives and reasons for optimism. In each of them games we were flat and listless, last night and on Saturday there was more intensity and desire.

I wonder if having Carter and Wharton at the back has helped a lot. Both of them can move the ball forward better than Hyam and way way way better than Ayala. Makes it easier to transition forward. Also I wouldn't really say we missed Ayala that much defensively which is a bit of a surprise. Carter particularly is very cultured with ball for a centreback.

[arbitro]

3 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Highlighted in the second half (just before he was taken off) when Thomas drilled a ball across the 6 yard box to nobody. His 3 attacking teammates were nowhere to be seen.

Thomas put some really good corners in last night. He got some real pace on them and put them into good areas. For many corners this season they have been tossed in and have been invariably flat.

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, BankEnd Rover said:

We’ve 8 games this months with the next game in 3 days!
 

Dack has been our main scorer & JDT knows that. We need him at his fittest for all of those games, so it’s a big risk running him down.

Fans booing need to get a grip and think of the bigger picture. 

The aim is to win games and he is a source of goals what the hell is the point of playing him 60 mins every game then taking him off and reduces our chances of scoring ?

You've also failed to acknowledge he's being replaced by what can be best described as a defensive forward.

Some fans need to wobble their heads when they support stuff like this then moan about lack of wins and goals. If he needs a rest at some point then give it too him but to take him off at 60 mins every game just so he can start the next one then rinse and repeat ?

What a load of cobblers there is no justifiable reason that we know of that he couldn't have played a bit longer the other night IF the intention is to win games. 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by tomphil

[joey_big_nose]

3 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Highlighted in the second half (just before he was taken off) when Thomas drilled a ball across the 6 yard box to nobody. His 3 attacking teammates were nowhere to be seen.

Yeah... if we had a decent central striker I think a lot of the flack that the midfielders get would melt away. They look poor because they have very little to pass too. Up front Dolan put a really good shift in, scared their defenders a bit which is always good to see, but isn't someone who lives to get on a cross or a through ball and score. 

[arbitro]

3 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I wonder if having Carter and Wharton at the back has helped a lot. Both of them can move the ball forward better than Hyam and way way way better than Ayala. Makes it easier to transition forward. Also I wouldn't really say we missed Ayala that much defensively which is a bit of a surprise. Carter particularly is very cultured with ball for a centreback.

We discussed the same thing last night during the game. It might be coincidence but when Hyam was on we were much deeper and played laterally and backwards a lot more than we did in the first half. Simplistically I thought we were unnecessarily deeper than we were in the first half allowing West Brom to push on more. And that, for me has been a problem in many games this season. 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, CambridgeRover said:

Looking over the extended highlights, the one thing that is sticking out to me is how poor Morton is defensively. I don't just mean tackling but the whole package. He manages to gets sucked in towards the ball, fails to track the run or proactively close down space, he ambles around showing no real intent or desire. Without being overly harsh, he looks like he is playing under 8's football where they just all slowly walk to the ball. 

At this point, and after again being at major fault for a conceded goal I can not see any reason for him to start. Simply too much of a defensive liability.

 

If you watch at 1:02 just for one clear example of all of the points above. In a five second period he manages to lose his man allowing him a free run at the six yard box, get sucked in to the man with the ball, both him and Dack combine to leave the man on the edge of the box completely free, Dack however quickly moves to close down the space whilst Morton just stands there before seemingly flinching away from the shot

He's been like that all season he's a powder puff player whose main strength is maybe sliding a good pass forward. Their is nothing else at all to his game at this point in time, looks good when we press and get on top of teams but we rarely do that.

Should never be a starter imo.

[RoverCanada]

11 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

Again with the Benson stuff.

Tell you what, let’s get in the guy that coached that highly coveted Spanish PL international goalkeeper from 15 to 24.

He also coached that Belgian lad. Looks a top Champ goalkeeper, forget his name.

oh wait.

Is it really because he didn’t play at professional level? We dying for some fat washed up Mark Bosnich type or something?

Repeating myself, but to briefly add, Benson's also apparently still a close confidante for Dean Henderson going back to their Carlisle days. Fisher's done alright since he left too (although seems to have lost the starting gig at Swansea). Stergiakis maybe a miss, but whatever.

I know fuck all about GK training, but the social media video snippets they post of the GK training appear to be relatively creative/interesting (or I'm just boring enough to bother watching them). Agreed that all good coaches must have been ex-players is silly reasoning...

I've been curious what we've had in mind with a relatively large stable of GKers. Wonder if anything will come of Hilton (had a decent Scottish loan spell last year), Eastham, Goddard, etc.

[Parsonblue]

I thought a draw was probably a fair result in the end.  However, coming away from the Hawthorns I couldn't help but feel neither of these sides will be involved in the play-offs.  West Brom didn't strike me as anything special although they had pace down the wings and some of their approach play was good but, rather like us, lacked any end product.

I thought we did OK, although not as well as at Watford, but once again, the manager continues to makes substitutions that seem to undermine us.  On Saturday I thought we could have gone on and won the game until his tinkering meant we lost our shape and all momentum and last night he did the same.  Once Thomas and Dack were removed we had no threat from open play.  Thomas gives us much needed pace and some old fashioned wing play and Dack is the one player who can create or poach a chance in the six-yard box.  The fans certainly let JDT know what they thought of him when Dack was taken off.

I've been really impressed with Pears since he came in and the same with Rankin-Costello and Carter.  However, I felt last night, particularly in the second half that we reverted to far too much backwards and sideways passing.  I'm hard pressed to remember Pickering actually playing a forward pass.  

Nonetheless, for all the faults, these last two away performances have been far better than so many this season.

[Wheelton Blue]

17 minutes ago, tomphil said:

The aim is to win games and he is a source of goals what the hell is the point of playing him 60 mins every game then taking him off and reduces our chances of scoring ?

You've also failed to aHe's cknowledge he's being replaced by what can be best described as a defensive forward.

Some fans need to wobble their heads when they support stuff like this then moan about lack of wins and goals. If he needs a rest at some point then give it too him but to take him off at 60 mins every game just so he can start the next one then rinse and repeat ?

What a load of cobblers there is no justifiable reason that we know of that he couldn't have played a bit longer the other night IF the intention is to win games. 

 

 

I'm certainly no fitness expert by any stretch, but I don't see what difference playing an extra 30 minutes would make to Dack at this stage.

He's got plenty of time under his belt post comeback, he looks as fit as ever, and he's got 2+ days to recover for the next game.

I think it's tactical on Tomasson's part.

[Sparks Rover]

27 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I wonder if having Carter and Wharton at the back has helped a lot. Both of them can move the ball forward better than Hyam and way way way better than Ayala. Makes it easier to transition forward. Also I wouldn't really say we missed Ayala that much defensively which is a bit of a surprise. Carter particularly is very cultured with ball for a centreback.

So Hyam isn't good enough for our defence?🤣🤣 

[tomphil]

11 minutes ago, RoverCanada said:

Repeating myself, but to briefly add, Benson's also apparently still a close confidante for Dean Henderson going back to their Carlisle days. Fisher's done alright since he left too (although seems to have lost the starting gig at Swansea). Stergiakis maybe a miss, but whatever.

I know fuck all about GK training, but the social media video snippets they post of the GK training appear to be relatively creative/interesting (or I'm just boring enough to bother watching them). Agreed that all good coaches must have been ex-players is silly reasoning...

I've been curious what we've had in mind with a relatively large stable of GKers. Wonder if anything will come of Hilton (had a decent Scottish loan spell last year), Eastham, Goddard, etc.

I don't see why people are still going on about Benson now i really wouldn't be surprised if he got a job elsewhere at a more ambitious club at some point.

Then we'll replace him with a rookie from Wrexhams kids team or an old dinosaur going through the motions for a wage. How would we feel then i wonder.

[Mattyblue]

He’s not tall… so ergo must be a shit goalkeeping coach, seems to be the crux of the matter on here.

[Exiled_Rover]

46 minutes ago, tomphil said:

The aim is to win games and he is a source of goals what the hell is the point of playing him 60 mins every game then taking him off and reduces our chances of scoring ?

You've also failed to acknowledge he's being replaced by what can be best described as a defensive forward.

Some fans need to wobble their heads when they support stuff like this then moan about lack of wins and goals. If he needs a rest at some point then give it too him but to take him off at 60 mins every game just so he can start the next one then rinse and repeat ?

What a load of cobblers there is no justifiable reason that we know of that he couldn't have played a bit longer the other night IF the intention is to win games. 

 

 

He was crap last night I'm afraid.

[tomphil]

1 minute ago, Exiled_Rover said:

He was crap last night I'm afraid.

BBD wasn't much better but he scored.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Interesting interview for 2 reasons:

1) He was clearly getting a bit of a dig in when he referenced the 9 games of this calendar year that have been wins or draws. The recent criticism might be getting to him a bit. Never seen him defensive before. 

2) He was a lot more positive about his/the club's desire to reach the play-offs. Obviously he's got the message on that one!

on point 1, he makes a fair point on it JDT makes on it. 

on point 2, I guess he is just managing expectations and trying to not over promise here from moment 1. If we get a playoff place he has massive underachieved with the squad we have compare to other teams who should be up there

1 hour ago, ben_the_beast said:

I'd stick with Dolan up top for the majority of the rest of the season, possibly interchanged with Gallagher if he ever finds something closely resembling a big of form.

Dolan doesn't look a threat but he does bring something to the party. His development has been interesting and for me he's really matured as a footballer. He knows when to press and always puts a shift in, whilsy he's so agile that if a defender drops a shoulder he can react quick enough to still steal the ball.

On the ball, he's got a good touch and can twist and turn with his back to goal so the ball actually sticks to him. Get it into his feet and he's actually not bad at linking up our play.

We all went from who's this incredible kid we've stolen from Preston, then a lot (myself included) thought he became a bit of an ineffective step over merchant. His maturing play has gone slightly under the radar. If he can develop more and become a threat with goals and assists he'll be a real asset. He's not the answer to our striking woes right now but considering the alternatives he's the best we have. Credit where its due though and hopefully he can continue to grow as a player. 

I think Playing Dolan as the pressing/number 9 striker is probably the best way until the summer. 

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I couldn’t watch last nights game, I had a meeting I had to attend. Afterwards I texted my son as usual. His view - “ Good point but grim to watch “.

grim to watch? We were playing away from home against a team who have quality attacking players but kept them mostly quiet whilst scoring there. Only team to do in the last 7 games there. Yes we played compact when defending but we played Thomas and BBD very wide when attacking. We don't have the players to play open attacking football

46 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Highlighted in the second half (just before he was taken off) when Thomas drilled a ball across the 6 yard box to nobody. His 3 attacking teammates were nowhere to be seen.

Correct. Where were Dack, BBD and Dolan tho? 

2 hours ago, BankEnd Rover said:

We’ve 8 games this months with the next game in 3 days!
 

Dack has been our main scorer & JDT knows that. We need him at his fittest for all of those games, so it’s a big risk running him down.

Fans booing need to get a grip and think of the bigger picture. 

Spot on post. Taking Dack off yesterday was the right decision as you need to consider the bigger picture and we played on Saturday, Tuesday and Saturday. Plus factoring in he is still on his comeback from 2 serious injuries. 

[Dreams of 1995]

55 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I wonder if having Carter and Wharton at the back has helped a lot. Both of them can move the ball forward better than Hyam and way way way better than Ayala. Makes it easier to transition forward. Also I wouldn't really say we missed Ayala that much defensively which is a bit of a surprise. Carter particularly is very cultured with ball for a centreback.

I would agree on Carter

Next week I'd go for Hyam and Carter starting

I do like the balance a left sided CB gives us, but for me Carter is above Wharton at this moment

[tomphil]

29 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

I'm certainly no fitness expert by any stretch, but I don't see what difference playing an extra 30 minutes would make to Dack at this stage.

He's got plenty of time under his belt post comeback, he looks as fit as ever, and he's got 2+ days to recover for the next game.

I think it's tactical on Tomasson's part.

The fact that hes started doing it on 60 ish mins means it's clearly tactical especially when you see who he swaps him with.

70 mins onwards maybe it's a bit more understandable fitness and game management wise. JDT itches to go even more defensive early in every second half we are winning or drawing.

It's being brushed away a bit because we got the point and on paper it's a decent result, however it was almost the last kick of the game.

The point was rescued from a set piece, it was 0-0 when he made the changes.

[Miller11]

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Correct. Where were Dack, BBD and Dolan tho? 

Spot on post. Taking Dack off yesterday was the right decision as you need to consider the bigger picture and we played on Saturday, Tuesday and Saturday. Plus factoring in he is still on his comeback from 2 serious injuries. 

The lack of players getting in the box is really infuriating. At one point last night Dack picked up a loose ball on the left hand side and your natural instinct is to want him to sling it back into the box. Brereton sprinted over going short for him, Dolan was in the box (just) but is no target and JRC was arriving late… from fullback. Telling that our goal came from a free kick outside the box. Based not just on last night, we create very little.

Dack has been back nearly a year. The injuries are no longer a factor.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Miller11

[den]

2 hours ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

The striking options are awful.  Manager has clearly seen enough of Vale and Gallagher.  

Dolan lits a shift in but doesn't look a threat. 

Only thing that might work in my humble opinion is BBD central with Dack behind and Hedges/Sorba out wide.   

I don’t think BBD has the technique to be effective down the middle.

[joey_big_nose]

34 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

So Hyam isn't good enough for our defence?🤣🤣 

Hes a great defender and not too bad on the ball, bur we definitely were poorer getting it forward when he came on.

[Dreams of 1995]

Szmodics has not got that Dack effect. The ability to turn a corner or cut a defence in half.

What he does have is work-rate. I can see the logic in bringing him in to close a game out. When chasing though it seems a waste of a substitution