v WBA (a) - 15/02/23

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, booth said:

You keep mentioning last season - different circumstances. Can you not see that there's a massive difference between Brereton now and then? Would you give your all, risking injury, if you were off in a few months? Rothwell was the same last season.

Speaking of which, it's not only the attack that's ineffective but the midfield, they are terrible. You can blame the manager for that too if you wish, but I've watched games in which the likes of Buckley and Travis have been awful. The manager doesn't make them pass the ball to an invisible man.

A big reason why we aren't more of an attacking threat is we have some godawful players thanks to Mowbray. We haven't purchased a striker since 2019, and that was Gallagher. The DOF's answer to that was George Hirst, a man that bad he was replaced with no one. Any team would suffer a goal drought. Any team would suffer from being unsupported by the board too. Any team, any manager.

So in summary, we have Gallagher who has always been poor, and Brereton who is on his way out. That's two passengers upfront. Then in midfield we have a choice of Morton, who is a defensive liability, Buckley who is out of form, and Travis who is the best of a bad bunch. We've no strength on the bench, and you still think it's a tactical issue?!

As I said though, I think it is an oversimplification to assume that Brereton just isnt giving his all. If he wasnt trying, he wouldnt keep running back to help defensively. Unfortunately, that is eliminating any threat from him going forward. Under Mowbray he wasnt being played as a left winger in a very defensive 4231.

I am as critical as anyone especially of the owners who certainly have again fucked up by refusing to sell Brereton, the cost of which will come beyond this season more than this, and also Broughton etc for their own failings. But you seem to be willing to totally remove any scope for criticising the manager because of that, whereas I still think we could be far better going forward than we are with our current players, who are essentially the same as last year when we did look far more threatening. Do Rotherham, Hull, Reading and Birmingham have better attackers than us? Not in my opinion yet theyve all scored more. 

[Penwortham Blue]

No matter how poor some of the performances have been, the rock bottom XG statistics, the deadline day fiasco, we still have a chance as this is a very poor league aside from the Dingles and Sheffield.

These players must realise this is their best ever shot at play offs / promotion and give it there all, especially those involved in last year’s capitulation. A positive result at the Hawthorns tomorrow should add some belief and confidence, COYB.

[booth]

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

As I said though, I think it is an oversimplification to assume that Brereton just isnt giving his all. If he wasnt trying, he wouldnt keep running back to help defensively. Unfortunately, that is eliminating any threat from him going forward. Under Mowbray he wasnt being played as a left winger in a very defensive 4231.

I am as critical as anyone especially of the owners who certainly have again fucked up by refusing to sell Brereton, the cost of which will come beyond this season more than this, and also Broughton etc for their own failings. But you seem to be willing to totally remove any scope for criticising the manager because of that, whereas I still think we could be far better going forward than we are with our current players, who are essentially the same as last year when we did look far more threatening. Do Rotherham, Hull, Reading and Birmingham have better attackers than us? Not in my opinion yet theyve all scored more. 

They don't have Gallagher and a host of young none or rarely scoring wingers!

Also Rotherham (20th), Hull (12th), Reading (13th) and Birmingham (18th).

Edited February 14, 2023 by booth

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, booth said:

They don't have Gallagher and a host of young none or rarely scoring wingers!

Also Rotherham (20th), Hull (12th), Reading (13th) and Birmingham (18th).

They dont have better attacks than us as a whole. 

I havent said that Tomasson is doing worse than those teams, just specifically that he has struggled throughout the season in attack with getting us to create chances, and that has got worse in recent weeks and months. Basically the same group of attackers is far less effective than it was under Mowbray and less effective than poorer squads in the league. Tomasson is doing other things which are more impressive though.

[booth]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

They dont have better attacks than us as a whole. 

I havent said that Tomasson is doing worse than those teams, just specifically that he has struggled throughout the season in attack with getting us to create chances, and that has got worse in recent weeks and months. Basically the same group of attackers is far less effective than it was under Mowbray and less effective than poorer squads in the league. Tomasson is doing other things which are more impressive though.

I can’t see how you can compare Mowbray. The squad is of his making, JDT just has to deal with what he has.

Also Mowbray had a more settled Brereton, Rothwell for half a season and a more settled defence. He also had a nightmare second half of the season where we couldn’t score goals. I just see this as a continuation of that.

It will be a struggle to know what to do with the current squad. When we attack we leave ourselves open and make mistakes. Midfield is lightweight. And if we attack we don’t score many anyway. 

I believe if we’d seen a few new players in January we would have seen a more attacking side.

I’ll repeat something I’ve said before. Why have we brought in a manager who clearly needs investment, if we aren’t going to invest? I can’t blame the manager for such shoddy forward planning.

[Exiled_Rover]

5 hours ago, Miller11 said:

I’m not sure I agree with the whole Brereton isn’t trying viewpoint. Unfortunately he’s playing like an out and out winger at the moment, he’s getting up and down the line and certainly not shirking his defensive responsibilities. Unfortunately we don’t seem to be playing to his strengths and he’s clearly lost a bit of swagger. I’ve not really noticed him pulling out of tackles - it’s certainly not blatantly evident like it has been with Morton and Brittain, but there is a bigger issue with our entire team being reluctant and/or incapable of tackling generally.

Give him a go up top. He’s clumsy enough to be a handful and quick and strong enough to find some joy centrally.

He's missed 4 absolute sitters (that I can think of) during this 12 game goal drought. It's nothing to do with the formation, he's just massively, massively out of form. 

He's a new father and his head has been turned by offers from Spain - he's only human. Whether he'll regain his form is another matter - for me he needs to sit on the bench for a few games as he's hurting the team. 

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, booth said:

I can’t see how you can compare Mowbray. The squad is of his making, JDT just has to deal with what he has.

Also Mowbray had a more settled Brereton, Rothwell for half a season and a more settled defence. He also had a nightmare second half of the season where we couldn’t score goals. I just see this as a continuation of that.

It will be a struggle to know what to do with the current squad. When we attack we leave ourselves open and make mistakes. Midfield is lightweight. And if we attack we don’t score many anyway. 

I believe if we’d seen a few new players in January we would have seen a more attacking side.

I’ll repeat something I’ve said before. Why have we brought in a manager who clearly needs investment, if we aren’t going to invest? I can’t blame the manager for such shoddy forward planning.

JDT is trying to install a style of play and a formation which will permeate through the Academy. Obviously he doesn't have the players to properly implement it yet with the First Team, but I appreciate that there's a plan - and he's pragmatic enough to throw on another CB to grind out a win. With a good #9 (bearing in mind he's playing Gallagher centrally more often than not) we could have snuck into the Playoffs this year, despite the broken squad he was handed in the summer. He needs backing this summer if he stays, but I suspect he's already looking at his options. 

Mowbray, on the other hand, had no style of play or a formation - he flew by the seat of his pants and adapted his principles based on the PL loans he could snag. We saw 3-5-2, 4-3-3 (with a False 9 🤣), 4-2-3-1 etc during his time here - with Rothwell played as an AML, Giles as an AMR, Johnson as a False 9 etc etc. 

There's really no comparison when it comes to who is the better manager. 

[Ossydave]

Literally no idea who this one pans out tbh, I can see us claiming another draw which whilst we'd continue with the "only lost once this year" line, wouldn't do any fading play off ambitions (if people still have them) any good.

Corberan is under pressure from some to drop Button after his clangers against Brum, if he does play then Thomas needs to panic him on set pieces.

Dolan has to start for me and like many others I'd give Brereton a night on the bench.

With Brittain and Hyam knocking at the door there's some nice selection problems to have. You can't drop JRC at the moment though and I think Carter has really impressed. Still think there's a spot for JRC in the midfield if I'm honest, whether JDT agrees though i have my doubts.

1-1 draw, Dolan with the goal.

[roverblue]

I was expecting a loss but after the Watford performance have some hope for a draw or a sneaky win even. Deluded I know 🙂

Would like to see Brereton and Morton dropped for Gally and Buckley/Wharton.

Trickier to put Britain and Hyam straight back in after the weekend performance of Carter and Costello though. 

[Miker]

I see a lot of mention of how West Brom haven't lost or conceded in 7 home games, but I'm strangely not worried. If someone had said they hadn't won or scored in the last 7 home games on the other hand... then I would be shitting myself. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

JDT is trying to install a style of play and a formation which will permeate through the Academy. Obviously he doesn't have the players to properly implement it yet with the First Team, but I appreciate that there's a plan - and he's pragmatic enough to throw on another CB to grind out a win. With a good #9 (bearing in mind he's playing Gallagher centrally more often than not) we could have snuck into the Playoffs this year, despite the broken squad he was handed in the summer. He needs backing this summer if he stays, but I suspect he's already looking at his options. 

Mowbray, on the other hand, had no style of play or a formation - he flew by the seat of his pants and adapted his principles based on the PL loans he could snag. We saw 3-5-2, 4-3-3 (with a False 9 🤣), 4-2-3-1 etc during his time here - with Rothwell played as an AML, Giles as an AMR, Johnson as a False 9 etc etc. 

There's really no comparison when it comes to who is the better manager. 

We’ll never have enough players with the technical abilities to play the way JDT wants. He’s fooling himself if he thinks that will happen. It’s a fools errand that will ultimately lead nowhere but downwards. You can count on the fingers of one hand the teams that have footballed their way out of this division in the last ten years.

[davulsukur]

29 minutes ago, Miker said:

I see a lot of mention of how West Brom haven't lost or conceded in 7 home games, but I'm strangely not worried. If someone had said they hadn't won or scored in the last 7 home games on the other hand... then I would be shitting myself. 

Ha, yeah the classic Rovers early Xmas present.

"Team A hasn't won at home since it was formed in 1900, up next for them, Blackburn Rovers"

Team A 3 - 0 Rovers.

[Waggy76]

6 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

JDT is trying to install a style of play and a formation which will permeate through the Academy. Obviously he doesn't have the players to properly implement it yet with the First Team, but I appreciate that there's a plan - and he's pragmatic enough to throw on another CB to grind out a win. With a good #9 (bearing in mind he's playing Gallagher centrally more often than not) we could have snuck into the Playoffs this year, despite the broken squad he was handed in the summer. He needs backing this summer if he stays, but I suspect he's already looking at his options. 

Mowbray, on the other hand, had no style of play or a formation - he flew by the seat of his pants and adapted his principles based on the PL loans he could snag. We saw 3-5-2, 4-3-3 (with a False 9 🤣), 4-2-3-1 etc during his time here - with Rothwell played as an AML, Giles as an AMR, Johnson as a False 9 etc etc. 

There's really no comparison when it comes to who is the better manager. 

If JDT sees out his contract , we will be in the 3rd Division (or whatever it is called now.)

[joey_big_nose]

43 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We’ll never have enough players with the technical abilities to play the way JDT wants. He’s fooling himself if he thinks that will happen. It’s a fools errand that will ultimately lead nowhere but downwards. You can count on the fingers of one hand the teams that have footballed their way out of this division in the last ten years.

Yeah and the ones that have had parachute money....

Im not actually that sure he wants to football it out. Hes not going for possession football I think, we end up having a lot of possession not through design but rather we just run out of ideas. Instead he wants to play it forward accurately and quickly which we should be able to do really. Dont need to be barcelona.

[Exiled_Rover]

26 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

If JDT sees out his contract , we will be in the 3rd Division (or whatever it is called now.)

If the purse strings continue to be tightened, perhaps.

Oh for the days when we could spunk £15m on strikers and spend 200% of our turnover on wages, eh?

[Exiled_Rover]

7 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Yeah and the ones that have had parachute money....

Im not actually that sure he wants to football it out. Hes not going for possession football I think, we end up having a lot of possession not through design but rather we just run out of ideas. Instead he wants to play it forward accurately and quickly which we should be able to do really. Dont need to be barcelona.

Pretty much. If you had a Brittain at LB to mirror Brittain at RB the team would look radically different going forward - they're meant to provide the width, instead we have to cut our cloth accordingly with Pickering and JRC.

Obviously a striker that can lead the line and score goals would be nice too.

[Penwortham Blue]

1 hour ago, Miker said:

I see a lot of mention of how West Brom haven't lost or conceded in 7 home games, but I'm strangely not worried. If someone had said they hadn't won or scored in the last 7 home games on the other hand... then I would be shitting myself. 

Spot on, a nailed on home win if that was the case.

[Miller11]

35 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Pretty much. If you had a Brittain at LB to mirror Brittain at RB the team would look radically different going forward - they're meant to provide the width, instead we have to cut our cloth accordingly with Pickering and JRC.

Obviously a striker that can lead the line and score goals would be nice too.

I’m not sure this is the plan as Brittain hasn’t played regularly at right back since September. And that includes spells at left back and on the bench, not just injuries. 

[bigbrandjohn]

Maybe a separate thread for are we a long term project as Mowbray climbs into the top six  with his short term project?

 

“However, Tomasson isn’t viewing tonight’s game, nor did he the weekend trip to Watford, as key games in the race for the play-offs.

They can climb back into the top six tonight, but would need to beat the Baggies who have won six consecutive league games at home without conceding.

He added: “Of course we want to play at the highest level and dream of the play-offs.

“If you look at the circumstances, should we be up there? If you compare us with the rest of the squads, the age and the budget, no.”

[rigger]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We’ll never have enough players with the technical abilities to play the way JDT wants. He’s fooling himself if he thinks that will happen. It’s a fools errand that will ultimately lead nowhere but downwards. You can count on the fingers of one hand the teams that have footballed their way out of this division in the last ten years.

You can count them on the fingers of one foot.

[superniko]

36 minutes ago, bigbrandjohn said:

Maybe a separate thread for are we a long term project as Mowbray climbs into the top six  with his short term project?

 

“However, Tomasson isn’t viewing tonight’s game, nor did he the weekend trip to Watford, as key games in the race for the play-offs.

They can climb back into the top six tonight, but would need to beat the Baggies who have won six consecutive league games at home without conceding.

He added: “Of course we want to play at the highest level and dream of the play-offs.

“If you look at the circumstances, should we be up there? If you compare us with the rest of the squads, the age and the budget, no.”

Install a losing mentality and you get a team of losers. I'm sick of it, spouts more sh*te than old Tone.

[booth]

10 minutes ago, superniko said:

Install a losing mentality and you get a team of losers. I'm sick of it, spouts more sh*te than old Tone.

Or, he's saying... "I'm f***ing pissed off at not being backed in January." And so would I be.

[superniko]

5 minutes ago, booth said:

Or, he's saying... "I'm f***ing pissed off at not being backed in January." And so would I be.

Maybe, but every week it's "projects, journeys and we shouldn't be this high in the league" (even though we seem to be dropping a place each week). He's right in one aspect, all stats do point to us being a bottom 5 ranked team, and I'm not surprised, if you're a player and you're told every week you're not good enough to be near the playoffs you probably begin to be satisfied with 0-0 draws at home to Wigan.

But if it's to do with age and budget then Sunderland (younger), Luton (cheaper) and Millwall (cheaper) managers should all be shouting the same rubbish. Personally, I think our issue is more leant towards naive and poor coaching and tactics.

[roverandout]

Bet he came to the club with intent on promotion but waggott and the other cronies knocked it out of him

[booth]

5 minutes ago, superniko said:

Maybe, but every week it's "projects, journeys and we shouldn't be this high in the league" (even though we seem to be dropping a place each week). He's right in one aspect, all stats do point to us being a bottom 5 ranked team, and I'm not surprised, if you're a player and you're told every week you're not good enough to be near the playoffs you probably begin to be satisfied with 0-0 draws at home to Wigan.

But if it's to do with age and budget then Sunderland (younger), Luton (cheaper) and Millwall (cheaper) managers should all be shouting the same rubbish. Personally, I think our issue is more leant towards naive and poor coaching and tactics.

I think it's to do with all of the above. Tomasson has been naive on occasion, we are too reliant on young players, we haven't invested in the team enough, our one decent signing in January didn't happen, and the one thing you haven't mentioned is that our previous manager left us with some mediocre and in some cases appallingly bad players.

It all adds up.