v WBA (a) - 15/02/23

[superniko]

15 minutes ago, booth said:

I think it's to do with all of the above. Tomasson has been naive on occasion, we are too reliant on young players, we haven't invested in the team enough, our one decent signing in January didn't happen, and the one thing you haven't mentioned is that our previous manager left us with some mediocre and in some cases appallingly bad players.

It all adds up.

The players aren't that young though. Mowbray used to say the same sh*te "he's only a kid" etc. usually when throwing them under a bus (Raya / Nyambe), and he rightly got pelters from us when we'd state they're like 25 years old and not a kid!

Assuming he (and yourself) are talking about the academy graduates, Carter 23, Wharton 25, Travis 25, Buckley 23.

Then likely starters of Kaminski, Ayala, Hyam, Szmodics, Dack, Hedges, Gallagher are all 27 or older. Diaz and Thomas have over 5 years + international experience, Pickering and Brittain are 24. These are players in their alleged peak, not young/inexperienced.

I can give him Vale and Morton as 'young' but neither should be starting anyway. The other youngsters like Phillips (5 starts), Wharton (6 starts) and Garrett (4 starts) are just like what everyone else has in academy squad players. We only actually have 4 teenagers in the squad (those 3 + Leonard who hasn't featured at all).

Our average team this year is only 1 year younger than Burnley.

Apologies as it's a bit off topic from the Match Thread, so maybe we leave it there.

Edited February 15, 2023 by superniko
Going a bit off topic - sorry

[booth]

7 minutes ago, superniko said:

The players aren't that young though. Assuming he (and yourself) are talking about the academy graduates, Carter 23, Wharton 25, Travis 25, Buckley 23,

Then likely starters of Kaminski, Ayala, Hyam, Szmodics, Dack, Hedges, Gallagher are all 27 or older. Diaz and Thomas have over 5 years + international experience, Pickering and Brittain are 24. These are players in their alleged peak, not young/inexperienced.

I can give him Vale and Morton as 'young' but neither should be starting anyway. The other youngsters like Phillips (5 starts), Wharton (6 starts) and Garrett (4 starts) are just like what everyone else has in academy squad players. We only actually have 4 teenagers in the squad (those 3 + Leonard who hasn't featured at all).

Our average team this year is only 1 year younger than Burnley.

I should have said "youth" players (I meant over seasons, not just this season - last time we signed a striker was 2019). We're relying too much on the academy or other clubs youth.

The point is that there's been nowhere near enough investment, and previously the investment hasn't been well spent, I'm sure that much is clear to even the most ardent critic of JDT.

Edited February 15, 2023 by booth

[booth]

Double post.

Edited February 15, 2023 by booth

[superniko]

2 minutes ago, booth said:

I should have said "youth" players (I meant over seasons, not just this season - last time we signed a striker was 2019). We're relying too much on the academy or other clubs youth.

The point is that there's been nowhere near enough investment, and previously the investment hasn't been well spent, I'm sure that much is clear to even the most ardent critic of JDT.

Yeah, we were screaming out for a ST and CM as priorities in January and the way it panned out is equally pathetic from the club and depressing for us fans.

I think it was the Wigan pre-match where Maloney talked about our attacking threat being known to be one of the best in the league, I remember other managers saying this too. These guys mustn't watch us and just go off some top level Brereton numbers! (Vale or Gallagher leading the line wouldn't threaten Accy)

[booth]

12 minutes ago, superniko said:

Yeah, we were screaming out for a ST and CM as priorities in January and the way it panned out is equally pathetic from the club and depressing for us fans.

It's extraordinarily pathetic. And it happened last January too, and both times we've been in a position to crack on. The difference between the two transfer windows is that this year they managed to make it worse, despite employing a DOF and being even more desperate for goals.

At any other club the fans would be going nuts. I think our fanbase has become numb and simply expect it.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

It’s amazing how Gallagher and Brererton have regressed this season. This time last year Brererton was probably the most sought after striker in the division. Tonight I’d have him on the bench. Gallagher hasn’t been the greatest in the past but this season he’s been playing with the deftness of touch of Herman Munster.

[Exiled_Rover]

8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It’s amazing how Gallagher and Brererton have regressed this season. This time last year Brererton was probably the most sought after striker in the division. Tonight I’d have him on the bench. Gallagher hasn’t been the greatest in the past but this season he’s been playing with the deftness of touch of Herman Munster.

Brereton-Diaz was the same player before the World Cup break as he was up to Dec '21. He's lost form, it happens.

Gallagher is being played centrally - something we've all been crying out for - and he's proving why Mowbray spent £5m on a #9 then hid him on the wing.

[RoversTilliDie]

I think JDTs tactics are backward at the moment, he plays Vale for 5 or 6 matches without a goal and leaves Leonard out of the team who can't stop scoring for the under 21s. We could do with BBD or Gallagher finding there scoring boots alongside Dack. Then we would see a decent challenge for the top 6.

[TonyM]

BBC TV local news in the West Midlands has just run a piece on the complaints from WBA fans about problems they have been having getting to The Hawthorns for recent matches because of ongoing traffic issues causing big holdups and gridlock in the area ... hope those attending tonight have given themselves plenty of time !

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by TonyM

[Sweaty Gussets]

1 minute ago, RoversTilliDie said:

I think JDTs tactics are backward at the moment, he plays Vale for 5 or 6 matches without a goal and leaves Leonard out of the team who can't stop scoring for the under 21s.

Vale was banging them in for U21's too.

[joey_big_nose]

Team for me : 

                      Pears

Brittain   Hyam     Carter    Pickering

                 JRC      Buckley

       THomas    Dack    Hedges

                        Dolan

 

[roversfan99]

12 hours ago, booth said:

I can’t see how you can compare Mowbray. The squad is of his making, JDT just has to deal with what he has.

Also Mowbray had a more settled Brereton, Rothwell for half a season and a more settled defence. He also had a nightmare second half of the season where we couldn’t score goals. I just see this as a continuation of that.

It will be a struggle to know what to do with the current squad. When we attack we leave ourselves open and make mistakes. Midfield is lightweight. And if we attack we don’t score many anyway. 

I believe if we’d seen a few new players in January we would have seen a more attacking side.

I’ll repeat something I’ve said before. Why have we brought in a manager who clearly needs investment, if we aren’t going to invest? I can’t blame the manager for such shoddy forward planning.

Again I take your point about how the club is run, and couldn't agree more. 

I would also take your point on Mowbray having built the squad, it isn't an overall "who is the better manager" debate or an insuation that Mowbray always had the perfect balance, I am just showing that the attacking players we have are capable of creating more chances that they currently are, of scoring more than they are at the moment and of being more entertaining. Not with wreckless abandonment, but we have the players to be more threatening than they are, and more potent than some of the teams I have mentioned.

Tomasson also has Dack back fit, he has Hedges following a 6 month settling in period, he has Szmodics and had Hirst who he as far as we know he has agreed on the signings of.

We have also become far less threatening after the manager had a full month with the players to work on things. That has to be a huge concern.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Pears

JRC, Carter, Hyam, Brittain.

Travis, Buckley.

Thomas, Dack Hedges

Dolan.

A pound to a penny that won’t be the team though. Morton has to be slotted in somewhere.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[booth]

21 minutes ago, RoversTilliDie said:

We could do with BBD or Gallagher finding there scoring boots alongside Dack. Then we would see a decent challenge for the top 6.

Been waiting since 2019, I just don't think the lad has got the talent or passion for the game. He's 27 and looks like he's already retired.

[booth]

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We have also become far less threatening after the manager had a full month with the players to work on things. That has to be a huge concern.

We did it last year, two managers, two dips after Christmas, many of the same players. We often struggle to perform for two halves of a game, never mind a season.

[Waggy76]

4 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

If the purse strings continue to be tightened, perhaps.

Oh for the days when we could spunk £15m on strikers and spend 200% of our turnover on wages, eh?

Oh for the days , when the managers tactics , didn't hinder  his own team...

[booth]

16 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Oh for the days , when the managers tactics , didn't hinder  his own team...

Oh for the days when we had a centre forward.

[Penwortham Blue]

3 hours ago, bigbrandjohn said:

Maybe a separate thread for are we a long term project as Mowbray climbs into the top six  with his short term project?

 

“However, Tomasson isn’t viewing tonight’s game, nor did he the weekend trip to Watford, as key games in the race for the play-offs.

They can climb back into the top six tonight, but would need to beat the Baggies who have won six consecutive league games at home without conceding.

He added: “Of course we want to play at the highest level and dream of the play-offs.

“If you look at the circumstances, should we be up there? If you compare us with the rest of the squads, the age and the budget, no.”

Good job Luton and Millwall don’t feel the same 😡

[WacoRover]

The very fact he mentions the budget, doesn’t bode well for his longevity with the club.

With the existing roster, I can’t see him stay around, if he’s continually told, “sorry, we have no funds for new/better players.” 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Cant blame him Waco tbh..sold a pup?

[jim mk2]

We're setting off in the next 10 minutes

Come on Rovers

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Waggy76 said:

Oh for the days , when the managers tactics , didn't hinder  his own team...

2008 then?

[chaddyrovers]

I think we will win this game 2 nil tonight. Confidence of our chances. Nothing to fear from WBA. They were very poor against Birmingham. Think we see 1 or 2 changes. think Buckley will replace Morton. 

2 hours ago, RoversTilliDie said:

I think JDTs tactics are backward at the moment, he plays Vale for 5 or 6 matches without a goal and leaves Leonard out of the team who can't stop scoring for the under 21s. We could do with BBD or Gallagher finding there scoring boots alongside Dack. Then we would see a decent challenge for the top 6.

Vale was bringing them in last season for under 21's. He struggled in some games but still learning his all round game. 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

We have also become far less threatening after the manager had a full month with the players to work on things. That has to be a huge concern.

We lost one game in the last 8 and we are playing the same formation each week now. BBD and Gallagher have been out of form international world cup break. Dack has been the shining light. 

[BigBar]

Big believer in JDT is quite happy to be there. He won't walk unless a club comes in for him. Until then he will collect his very healthy salary and be a good boy.

[roversfan99]

26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think we will win this game 2 nil tonight. Confidence of our chances. Nothing to fear from WBA. They were very poor against Birmingham. Think we see 1 or 2 changes. think Buckley will replace Morton. 

Vale was bringing them in last season for under 21's. He struggled in some games but still learning his all round game. 

We lost one game in the last 8 and we are playing the same formation each week now. BBD and Gallagher have been out of form international world cup break. Dack has been the shining light. 

Like Jon Dahl Tomasson's echo!

We went into the international break with people very content as to our league position, but very few people were convinced about performances and the assumption/hope was that a month with the players would allow him to get his style across and it would push us on. Since from an attacking perspective, we have been miles worse even than before and we struggled even in the first few months to create many chances.