Season tickets 2023-24 - what could/should be offered ?

[Upside Down]

2 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

bolton supporting mate of mine said the breezeblock is near to a sell out tommorow,season tickets are flying out of the club shop and they expect to sell between 15-18 thousand,not hard is it when you the pricing right and the right people behind the scenes,they`ve come out of their **** ownership,i f*****g wish we would

We don't want to end up like Bolton though....

[wilsdenrover]

1 hour ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Ask youself this fellow board members...

Why the hell are Rovers fans having to write in to the CEO telling him where he is going wrong with season ticket prices?

Does that sit right with anyone?...this is a man who is reputedly receiving £200-300k per annum.

Waggott is so out of touch with the fan base and demograpics of the area its fucking unreal.

We are constantly having to tell the lunatics how to run our Club!

Our last set of accounts had our highest paid director (presumably SW) as having a salary of £271,413 + pension contributions of £1,321.

If it’s any consolation, this is lower than the previous year’s figure.

 

[arbitro]

8 hours ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Ask youself this fellow board members...

Why the hell are Rovers fans having to write in to the CEO telling him where he is going wrong with season ticket prices?

Does that sit right with anyone?...this is a man who is reputedly receiving £200-300k per annum.

Waggott is so out of touch with the fan base and demograpics of the area its fucking unreal.

We are constantly having to tell the lunatics how to run our Club!

He has a financial target to hit and knows that the loyal 8-9000 will buy them so for him it's mission accomplished. In my view he is lazy and just doesn't seem to be interested in growing the club by increasing our fan base. It's a really selfish way for a Chief Executive to go about his business but as long as he is allowed to them he will.

The real problem though lies several thousand miles away.

[Mattyblue]

But we now know 8-9k don’t always buy them - we sold 6,995 in 21/22, which led to some 9 thousand crowds for night games pre Christmas, luckily we then charged up the table and sold big numbers (for us) of half STs to mask it.

Every chance we don’t reach it this season either. I keep thinking we’ve hit rock bottom but Swag keeps finding new depths for us to fall into…

[tomphil]

8 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

Our last set of accounts had our highest paid director (presumably SW) as having a salary of £271,413 + pension contributions of £1,321.

If it’s any consolation, this is lower than the previous year’s figure.

 

Probably a good salary for a part timer though and i suppose there are expenses covered on top of that.

[rigger]

Who are these loyal fans loyal to, the Rovers or Waggott ? Waggott seems to be the main beneficiary of the season tickets at the price they are.

[Wheelton Blue]

His targets should be set against growing income AND on numbers sold.

ie the same as most businesses.

[Polky]

I was just listening to the latest episode of the Kidder Street Noise podcast, episode 35 if anyone’s interested.

(Just over the hour mark)

The lad on there has said that he’s spoke with Waggott previously who has told him that a group of senior players meet regularly with Waggott. The players have asked why there is not more fans in the ground, which Waggott replied “You don’t understand the local demographic, Blackburn is a poor area” 

They also mentioned that Hyam wants to see a wall of fans when they walk out the tunnel and look at the Riverside.

At least the players have noticed, but its hilarious that Waggott realises the demographic are not well off and still keeps the prices high 🤔

[K-Hod]

3 minutes ago, BRFC_Polky said:

I was just listening to the latest episode of the Kidder Street Noise podcast, episode 35 if anyone’s interested.

(Just over the hour mark)

The lad on there has said that he’s spoke with Waggott previously who has told him that a group of senior players meet regularly with Waggott. The players have asked why there is not more fans in the ground, which Waggott replied “You don’t understand the local demographic, Blackburn is a poor area” 

They also mentioned that Hyam wants to see a wall of fans when they walk out the tunnel and look at the Riverside.

At least the players have noticed, but its hilarious that Waggott realises the demographic are not well off and still keeps the prices high 🤔

The guy and the podcast definitely have a lack of understanding of the locality in common then…

[Mattyblue]

‘Poor area and demographics… but there are still 9k, sorry 7k now that will pay top dollar regardless and it’s still enough for me get my bonus’.

[Miller11]

44 minutes ago, BRFC_Polky said:

I was just listening to the latest episode of the Kidder Street Noise podcast, episode 35 if anyone’s interested.

(Just over the hour mark)

The lad on there has said that he’s spoke with Waggott previously who has told him that a group of senior players meet regularly with Waggott. The players have asked why there is not more fans in the ground, which Waggott replied “You don’t understand the local demographic, Blackburn is a poor area” 

They also mentioned that Hyam wants to see a wall of fans when they walk out the tunnel and look at the Riverside.

At least the players have noticed, but its hilarious that Waggott realises the demographic are not well off and still keeps the prices high 🤔

That’s me on the podcast. 

My response to Waggott was “Steve, that’s what we’ve been telling you for years”

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

So he is basically frightened we wont hit financial targets if he lowers the price...that is the crux of the matter?

Fans dont matter just finances.

Edited May 13, 2023 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Sweaty Gussets]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Every chance we don’t reach it this season either. I keep thinking we’ve hit rock bottom but Swag keeps finding new depths for us to fall into…

They are ahead of target according to them. They expected to sell 6k by the end of the early bird but have sold 'closer' to 7k

[wilsdenrover]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Probably a good salary for a part timer though and i suppose there are expenses covered on top of that.

By way of comparison, Luton’s highest paid director had a salary of £662,414 plus pension contributions of £7,378.

I’ll leave others to decide which club got the better value for money…

[glen9mullan]

Morning all,

 

I've recieved quite a long detailed response from Steve this morning.

I will digest it further and put the response on here later.

Main points.

1. He consulted with the Rovers Trust and Fans Forum over the strategy.

2. The early bird gave 2 pay days which was generous.

3. Owners have been generous allowing the early bird discount given rising operational cost.

4. Best sales in 5 years.

5. Pricing was based on data, i.e reducing them there was nothing to suggest that it would increase sales.

6. Would of been one of cheapest premier league tickets had we been promoted.

7. Club expecting 90% renewal rate and 1500 to 2000 new season ticket holders.

8. Club gained Gold award for engagement and family excellence 

 

I will post full response tomorrow .

Edited May 13, 2023 by glen9mullan

[wilsdenrover]

2 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

His targets should be set against growing income AND on numbers sold.

ie the same as most businesses.

and understand the importance of the ‘intangible benefits’ of more bums on seats.

[wilsdenrover]

11 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

Morning all,

 

I've recieved quite a long detailed response from Steve this morning.

I will digest it further and put the response on here later.

Main points.

1. He consulted with the Rovers Trust and Fans Forum over the strategy.

2. The early bird gave 2 pay days which was generous.

3. Owners have been generous allowing the early bird discount given rising operational cost.

4. Best sales in 5 years.

5. Pricing was based on data, i.e reducing them there was nothing to suggest that it would increase sales.

6. Would of been one of cheapest premier league tickets had we been promoted.

7. Club expecting 90% renewal rate and 1500 to 2000 new season ticket holders.

8. Club gained Gold award for engagement and family excellence 

 

I will post full response tomorrow .

Thank you for sharing this with us:

1. Can anyone from the RT and or FF confirm this?

2. It doesn’t matter how many pay days you give if people don’t have that level of disposable income.

3. Whoopee fucking do

4. A cherry picked figure which he surely can’t be using as something to be proud of

5. He’s seriously suggesting that lower prices doesn’t equal higher sales - what utter utter tosh.

6. And if my uncle had tits he would be my aunt.

7. expecting these figures based on what????

8. what was the criteria for these awards - and what’s that got to do with the price of fish.

[glen9mullan]

8 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Thank you for sharing this with us:

1. Can anyone from the RT and or FF confirm this?

2. It doesn’t matter how many pay days you give if people don’t have that level of disposable income.

3. Whoopee fucking do

4. A cherry picked figure which he surely can’t be using as something to be proud of

5. He’s seriously suggesting that lower prices doesn’t equal higher sales - what utter utter tosh.

6. And if my uncle had tits he would be my aunt.

7. expecting these figures based on what????

8. what was the criteria for these awards - and what’s that got to do with the price of fish.

I have sent a response, off out now (wedding anniversary tomorrow).

 

[Sweaty Gussets]

23 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

Morning all,

 

I've recieved quite a long detailed response from Steve this morning.

I will digest it further and put the response on here later.

Main points.

1. He consulted with the Rovers Trust and Fans Forum over the strategy.

2. The early bird gave 2 pay days which was generous.

3. Owners have been generous allowing the early bird discount given rising operational cost.

4. Best sales in 5 years.

5. Pricing was based on data, i.e reducing them there was nothing to suggest that it would increase sales.

6. Would of been one of cheapest premier league tickets had we been promoted.

7. Club expecting 90% renewal rate and 1500 to 2000 new season ticket holders.

8. Club gained Gold award for engagement and family excellence 

 

I will post full response tomorrow .

Best sales in 5 years, but thousands less than if he'd reduced them. But the data is telling him something different. What data? The data at PNE and Bolton than should tell him the opposite is true, and reduced prices means more sales. Or the data from Rovers that will tell him every time prices have been reduced substantially in the past sales have shot up. 

It's comforting to know they would have been the cheapest in the PL IF we'd gone up. Haha. 

I'm embarrassed for him if that's the best he can do. 

[K-Hod]

9 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Thank you for sharing this with us:

1. Can anyone from the RT and or FF confirm this?

2. It doesn’t matter how many pay days you give if people don’t have that level of disposable income.

3. Whoopee fucking do

4. A cherry picked figure which he surely can’t be using as something to be proud of

5. He’s seriously suggesting that lower prices doesn’t equal higher sales - what utter utter tosh.

6. And if my uncle had tits he would be my aunt.

7. expecting these figures based on what????

8. what was the criteria for these awards - and what’s that got to do with the price of fish.

Just to be clear, on point 1- there was a consultation, several recommendations were made, but I don’t think implemented!

[Sweaty Gussets]

2 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Just to be clear, on point 1- there was a consultation, several recommendations were made, but I don’t think implemented!

At the next FF why not call for his resignation on the basis he is pricing loyal fans out of watching their team?

[glen9mullan]

Morning Glen

 

Many thanks for your email.

 

As previously discussed at one of our previous meetings when setting ticket prices we balance the needs of all club stakeholders to ensure reasonable prices are offered, with multiple payment options to spread the cost and ease cash flow for individuals.

After consultation with representatives of the Supporters Trust and the Fans Forum it was agreed that we would get the 23/24 season tickets on sale as soon as possible. Following discussions with the Owners the super-saver period was announced on the afternoon of Friday 24^th March 2023 the earliest we have gone out on sale for many years.

This first phase included a reduction of £50 from the adult standard price in 22/23 and a £20 saving for those who purchased in the early-bird period of that season. Most clubs across the EFL have chosen to freeze or increase prices from the outset to manage the rising operational costs that they are incurring, thanks to our Owners we were able to resist this approach and did not.

Whilst the club fully appreciates the cost of living increase felt by most across the UK, a reduction by any more would fail to cover rising operational costs and see us suffer a Year On Year reduction in revenue.

We have worked behind the scenes with the Owners to get them to approve a £50 discounted price on the adult standard price £429 of last 22/23 season especially working within the backdrop of rapidly rising costs across all aspects of the Club and the three main sites.

We have seen that the suggestion of reducing costs by half would see the volume of tickets sold double does not correlate; this has been tested throughout the season to allow us to base our decision on data.

The rate of purchase is above that of the previous 5 years, showing a positive response to the super-saver period. This period was designed to span two pay-days (March and April) allowing for supporters to save in two instalments. There is also the V12 finance option for those who are eligible. Whilst some have raised the issue of not being eligible, it would not be ethical of us to argue their eligibility and plunge supporters who cannot afford credit, into debt.

The rationale for the phased approach allows the Club to meet its financial targets whilst giving supporters the opportunity to make an initial saving followed by a price freeze versus 22/23 prices which, we believe, is another magnanimous gesture from our Owners who have taking on board the financial pressure placed on some of our supporter base.

Obviously, those who need longer to save will unfortunately pay a slightly higher price but reversing the order would make no sense to anyone and we were also looking to reward early purchases ahead of the deciding match in the 46-game Championship season.

Supporters could have therefore locked in a price of £379 (adults) for a potential Premier League season, which would be one of, if not the cheapest Premier League season ticket. £379 also makes us very competitive amongst our peers who are in and around the top 8 of the Championship.

We have seen an increase in attendances, season ticket purchases and engagement in the past season. This is some of the best growth that the club has seen in recent years. We’re on course to attract more season ticket holders than we have in the past 5 seasons and have a growing database to market to for individual match tickets. We anticipate a 90% renewal rate and a 10% churn followed by an uplift of around 1500-2000 supporters.

Other Clubs may have lower prices or longer periods, but they also won’t generate the same revenue we do therefore limiting their ability to invest in other areas of the Club like we do. 

We have currently exceeded 7000 sales with a cohort of circa 300 not being able to take advantage of the Super Saver and who have paid the £429 with further sales still steadily coming in.

Ultimately the club’s commercial goal is to generate funds that allows us to put a competitive senior team on the pitch along with operating a successful Category One Academy and a support structure to meet the many operational demands across the Club.

 

Naturally we welcome as many fans as possible at all matches as can be seen by ongoing investment in to our outstanding community integration work and match day standards gaining a Gold Standard in family excellence awards.

 

Can I conclude by thanking you for your valued support and happy to meet up over the summer should you wish to do so.

 

Kind Regards

 

Steve

My response.

Thank you Steve,

I fully appreciate your detailed response at the weekend in your free time.

A couple of points to raise.

1. Early bird - Does indeed cover two pay days, but given the timing,  the first pay day in many instances is a wash out. Many people budget at the beginning of a month and not in the final week leading up to pay day. This creates an impulsive purchase rather than a measured one. I strongly believe the end of May given the season starts on the 5th August is more representative and realistic when considering the demographic/target audience.

2. The V12 has never been a good arrangement for a number of fans, i fully understand why rovers use them due to the working capital being released earlier than other providers like premium credit, but do not agree that this is a mechanism to prevent people dropping further in debt. Its no different than buying up front and potentially jeopardising other commitments that supporters may have.
Is there not a potential arrangement of using both providers?

3. Our owners investment each season is very much appreciated, we are very reliant on them given our revenues do not balance the books. I also appreciate club employees are also feeling the pinch and no doubt the club has given rises to these too, as any other employers have too.  Interest rates rised to 4.5%this week, causing further pain to many whose mortgages are rising by the hundreds.

4. Premier League, Championship, Division 1 etc its fair to say has very little baring on the majority of loyal season ticket holders. We are in this together and our support is unconditional. We were born into the Rovers family and although success is what everyone seeks, we dont wander away when he dont get it. There is certainly no sense of entitlement for the majority of supporters in terms of where we should or should not be in terms of league position.

5. I dont think I've asked for season tickets to be reduced by half,  this is not realistic. However what I am asking for is realism. The 9th May however served up was an unrealistic expectation. I will check with the Trust and Fans Forum, as i cannot believe either entity would of subscribed to an increase as soon as the last ball is kicked.

6. You dont answer the question regarding a further increase, can you please advise if there will be one?.


It's nice to know we have sold nearly 7000, although hitting last seasons sales is still some way off.
I will be interested to know how many new season ticket holders we attract, but also how many we lose.
If we gain 1500 new ones, but lose 1500 old ones this cannot be deemed a success. I would go as far as stating it be a disaster as the baton is passed from one generation to another within families. Losing that succession is something a family club should be avoiding at all costs.

I will be happy to meet up at your convenience to discuss this, but also how we avoid this in the future.  There are longer term options which I feel the club could adopt which would bring about a more positive conclusion in future ticketing strategies.

As we discussed last time we met, increasing our support should be paramount, our club needs its supporter base and we cannot continue to lose supporters season upon season as they are the very fabric to the long term success of our club, or indeed any club who values their importance.

Best wishes
Glen

[wilsdenrover]

37 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

Morning all,

 

I've recieved quite a long detailed response from Steve this morning.

I will digest it further and put the response on here later.

Main points.

1. He consulted with the Rovers Trust and Fans Forum over the strategy.

2. The early bird gave 2 pay days which was generous.

3. Owners have been generous allowing the early bird discount given rising operational cost.

4. Best sales in 5 years.

5. Pricing was based on data, i.e reducing them there was nothing to suggest that it would increase sales.

6. Would of been one of cheapest premier league tickets had we been promoted.

7. Club expecting 90% renewal rate and 1500 to 2000 new season ticket holders.

8. Club gained Gold award for engagement and family excellence 

 

I will post full response tomorrow .

Just to add to my earlier post:

re point 5:

he’s claiming their data says lower prices won’t mean more sales but point 7 suggests they think higher prices can mean more sales - sounds very back to front to me.

re point 7:

I think someone said our figures last year were 9300, so minus 10% but plus 1500-2000 = 9870 to 10370.

The club says ‘around 7000’ took advantage of the early bird offer - I think it’s safe to assume this wasn’t over 7000.

This means SW is expecting 2,870 - 3,370 people to buy at the higher (or even higher still) prices - that would be around 30% of all sales.

I’d love to understand the ‘logic’ behind his ‘thinking’…

 

[wilsdenrover]

13 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Just to be clear, on point 1- there was a consultation, several recommendations were made, but I don’t think implemented!

Thanks for this - what were these recommendations? (apologies if these have already been mentioned elsewhere)

[Miller11]

34 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Thank you for sharing this with us:

1. Can anyone from the RT and or FF confirm this?

 

From a Trust point of view I’d say there were discussions rather than consultations. They key recommendations we put to them included

1. Entry level pricing

2. Focus on ST retention after earlier start of ST sales

3. Flexible ST offers

4. Market more effectively in the wider east lancs area and beyond

5. Improve the match day experience

 

So I’d say they listened to point 2, but then negated any benefit by increasing the price a few weeks later. There’s quite a bit more detail about the discussions we’ve been involved with back across this and the Trust thread. Glen’s 5th point is where we face difficulty - we have to prove there is enough appetite in the non-attending fanbase and persuade them to risk a price cut. It’s a battle.

Edit - just seen Glen has posted the full response. Hopefully you’ll see what I mean in my last 2 sentences.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Miller11