Adam Wharton

[47er]

Palace buy from us for £16M and sell after a few months for £54m. They had him for a few months, we had him since he was 6.

They make £29M, we make £22M.

Seems fair.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, KentExile said:

I believe so. 

I've heard anywhere between 15 & 20% of any profit, which would mean £5M or £6M reasons for Venkys not to send any more money over in January

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2024/11/27/adam-wharton-transfer-arsenal/

Man City & Liverpool also interested according story cited by the BBC.  Surely Palace wouldn't sell until the end of the season?  Get him fit and playing at his best again and then they would be looking at a much higher fee with those teams interested and a bidding war?

If they sell him now they’re selling at the wrong time. Makes you wonder if they think the groin injury will be long standing and hard to treat.

[Upside Down]

3 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If they sell him now they’re selling at the wrong time. Makes you wonder if they think the groin injury will be long standing and hard to treat.

Or they're staring down the barrel of potential relegation and that extra 25 million they'll make can help with the squad rebuild.

[bluebruce]

Seems an odd time for a buying club to go in for him too. Price sounds similar to what they'd have paid in the summer, before his injury, and before the run of indifferent form he had whilst he was carrying his injury.

[bluebruce]

7 hours ago, 47er said:

Palace buy from us for £16M and sell after a few months for £54m. They had him for a few months, we had him since he was 6.

They make £29M, we make £22M.

Seems fair.

It rankles, for sure, but just to play devil's advocate here...

It's a year not a few months. £18 million not £16 million is what was widely reported, rising to £22 million dependent on clauses...I don't know how many of them will have been met by sale time, probably a little based on appearances as he wasn't expected to slot straight into the first team like he did, but most will go unmet unless there's a clause that if he's sold for a lot the other clauses are automatically met or something. Doubt we are that savvy with negotiations though.

They took a financial risk of £18 million on him, whereas we will have spent far, far below £1 million on developing him, and probably less than that even with the new contract he signed. They've also been in the fortunate position of having the platform to make him into a £50+ million player, a fee we'd never have obtained in this league in a month of Sundays no matter how well he played.

As I say, just devil's advocate...it certainly smarts to see them make such quick and easy money, and more than we'll have made.

[47er]

2 hours ago, bluebruce said:

It rankles, for sure, but just to play devil's advocate here...

It's a year not a few months. £18 million not £16 million is what was widely reported, rising to £22 million dependent on clauses...I don't know how many of them will have been met by sale time, probably a little based on appearances as he wasn't expected to slot straight into the first team like he did, but most will go unmet unless there's a clause that if he's sold for a lot the other clauses are automatically met or something. Doubt we are that savvy with negotiations though.

They took a financial risk of £18 million on him, whereas we will have spent far, far below £1 million on developing him, and probably less than that even with the new contract he signed. They've also been in the fortunate position of having the platform to make him into a £50+ million player, a fee we'd never have obtained in this league in a month of Sundays no matter how well he played.

As I say, just devil's advocate...it certainly smarts to see them make such quick and easy money, and more than we'll have made.

Yes £18M, sorry my mistake. 

[Torgeir]

11 hours ago, 47er said:

Palace buy from us for £16M and sell after a few months for £54m. They had him for a few months, we had him since he was 6.

They make £29M, we make £22M.

Seems fair.

They made the biggest investment. 

But yeah, modern day football sucks.

[RevidgeBlue]

8 hours ago, Torgeir said:

They made the biggest investment. 

But yeah, modern day football sucks.

In the case of Wharton though, it wasn't really "modern day football" it was our illustrious owners getting themselves in trouble with the Indian Authorities which necessitated Wharton having to be practically given away to the first available suitor to keep the lights on.

If we'd have hung onto him for another season or two as we should have done, we'd be benefitting from the big bucks instead.

[bluebruce]

8 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

In the case of Wharton though, it wasn't really "modern day football" it was our illustrious owners getting themselves in trouble with the Indian Authorities which necessitated Wharton having to be practically given away to the first available suitor to keep the lights on.

If we'd have hung onto him for another season or two as we should have done, we'd be benefitting from the big bucks instead.

We could only have benefitted from the big bucks if we got promoted. Probably we would have been in for about 25 million, with 30 million being the absolute ceiling I'd say given the league we play in. Assuming no injuries.

It's also not 'practically given away' when it's a club record fee.

I do think we'd have made more money keeping him though, but as you say, our idiot owners blundered us into trouble. They probably wouldn't have let us spend much of it in either scenario, mind. But at least we'd have had more time with Adam.

[RevidgeBlue]

7 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

We could only have benefitted from the big bucks if we got promoted. Probably we would have been in for about 25 million, with 30 million being the absolute ceiling I'd say given the league we play in. Assuming no injuries.

It's also not 'practically given away' when it's a club record fee.

I do think we'd have made more money keeping him though, but as you say, our idiot owners blundered us into trouble. They probably wouldn't have let us spend much of it in either scenario, mind. But at least we'd have had more time with Adam.

Big difference between £30 m (plus add ons) and £18m plus presumably smaller add ons.

I still think £18m was virtually giving him away in the current market given his age and potential.

So what if it was a Club record fee? (Just)  It's 21 years since we sold Duff to Chelsea for £17m! Albeit he was a better player imo.

[bluebruce]

47 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Big difference between £30 m (plus add ons) and £18m plus presumably smaller add ons.

I still think £18m was virtually giving him away in the current market given his age and potential.

So what if it was a Club record fee? (Just)  It's 21 years since we sold Duff to Chelsea for £17m! Albeit he was a better player imo.

Nah, I meant 30 mill including add ons. Vs the 22 mill including add ons. A sizeable difference, but one Venkys would only swallow up anyway tbh. My pride would feel a bit more intact though.

So what? I'm just encouraging accurate language. We sold him cheaply, at least relative to his ability and potential. We did not practically give him away. 18 million is a lot of money, especially to a Championship club, and especially to one who have sold absolute stars for less.

Duff was sold from a position of being a Prem team who he'd won the League Cup with and he was one of the best wingers in the world at the time. Adam was playing in the Championship and had only just established himself as the regular. The season before, he was struggling (unfairly, mind) to dislodge Tyler fucking Morton. We got below market value thanks to our inept owners, but not by orders of magnitude.

[riverholmes]

And with that money (and throw in the Finneran compensation, whatever it was), did we scour the lower leagues or the fringes of the Premiership for the next Wharton for our midfield, or did we only get in Ayari on loan for a game and a half, sign Lewis Baker on loan and pray that Rankin-Costello (and Buckley) would transform into a central midfielder?

Edit: Not to undersell the club, Jalil Saadi was given a new one year deal. (With all respect to him, as he's done well, considering he is not at the level required - and hope he forges a decent career).

Edited November 30, 2024 by riverholmes

[Eddie]

On 29/11/2024 at 15:40, RevidgeBlue said:

So what if it was a Club record fee? (Just)  It's 21 years since we sold Duff to Chelsea for £17m! Albeit he was a better player imo.

Not only was he a better player, but he was vastly more proven.

He'd played at a World Cup, starred for Ireland for several years, and proven himself over several season in the Premier League. Duff was more proven by the time we got promoted back to the Premier League than Wharton was before he left here.

This is a repeat of the same old discussions and I wish that we had held onto him, but we didn't get THAT bad of a deal for him and a further 5-10m will make it a reasonably good bit of business for a teenage Championship player. 

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

Not only was he a better player, but he was vastly more proven.

He'd played at a World Cup, starred for Ireland for several years, and proven himself over several season in the Premier League. Duff was more proven by the time we got promoted back to the Premier League than Wharton was before he left here.

This is a repeat of the same old discussions and I wish that we had held onto him, but we didn't get THAT bad of a deal for him and a further 5-10m will make it a reasonably good bit of business for a teenage Championship player. 

At least we had him for 5 seasons before we sold him for a record fee...

I was gutted when he left, but Williams and co were so much better at this than The Spiv and his cohorts...

Most commentators agree that Wharton was sold on the cheap...

[Upside Down]

Anyone saying that Wharton was sold for a decent fee needs to give their head a wobble. The club practically gave him away at the first opportunity.

[philipl]

17 hours ago, Upside Down said:

Anyone saying that Wharton was sold for a decent fee needs to give their head a wobble. The club practically gave him away at the first opportunity.

Palace have more or less confirmed this as the case.

They knew we were vulnerable and exploited it.

[Mattyblue]

Goes round in circles this.

The fact less than 12 months later he’s been touted for £40 odd million shows Palace got him for a steal… but in reality a distressed seller wasn’t going to get any more for a player in the Championship. 

[47er]

33 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Goes round in circles this.

The fact less than 12 months later he’s been touted for £40 odd million shows Palace got him for a steal… but in reality a distressed seller wasn’t going to get any more for a player in the Championship. 

Presumably if we hadn't had Wharton to sell we would have gone into administration.

That's what those Indian tossers have brought us to. May they rot in hell.

However this is an unrepeatable betrayal they've pulled on us. What happens next time we are broke and there is no Wharton to sell?

Personally I can't wait.

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 hours ago, 47er said:

Presumably if we hadn't had Wharton to sell we would have gone into administration.

That's what those Indian tossers have brought us to. May they rot in hell.

However this is an unrepeatable betrayal they've pulled on us. What happens next time we are broke and there is no Wharton to sell?

Personally I can't wait.

This

[Forever Blue]

3 hours ago, philipl said:

Palace have more or less confirmed this as the case.

They knew we were vulnerable and exploited it.

Alan Shearer also confirmed that those in the corridors of power at Ewood had admitted to him that AW was sold on the cheap. And we know why, and Shearer knew why. 

[bluebruce]

On 03/12/2024 at 13:39, Upside Down said:

Anyone saying that Wharton was sold for a decent fee needs to give their head a wobble. The club practically gave him away at the first opportunity.

There is a middle ground between the hyperbole of 'practically gave him away' and a 'decent fee' (less hyperbolic, but still a generous assertion). Neither is true for me.

We sold Wharton for what will prove a bargain price if injuries don't end him prematurely, and about 5-8 million shy (10 at the very most) of what could reasonably be expected in the summer if we had held firm and didn't have clownpants owners.

[bluebruce]

On 30/11/2024 at 14:23, riverholmes said:

And with that money (and throw in the Finneran compensation, whatever it was)

I don't believe we have had any money for Finneran yet. I haven't heard about the compensation being settled.

I'm expecting it won't be any higher, or much higher anyway, than 500k.

[USABlue]

On 04/12/2024 at 01:34, Mattyblue said:

Goes round in circles this.

The fact less than 12 months later he’s been touted for £40 odd million shows Palace got him for a steal… but in reality a distressed seller wasn’t going to get any more for a player in the Championship. 

Obviously after playing and doing well in the Prem, England squad his value would rocket.  No one will pay what so e want for an unproven kid playing in the Championship.  Maybe for the occasional Bellingham or the ilk

[Eddie]

5 hours ago, USABlue said:

Obviously after playing and doing well in the Prem, England squad his value would rocket.  No one will pay what so e want for an unproven kid playing in the Championship.  Maybe for the occasional Bellingham or the ilk

But...but...but...he's the greatest ever.

The club made a total mess of the timing of the sale and it was, as is the norm for our owners and leadership, a complete mess.

But the amount of money we got was basically fair market value.

He was never going to be worth 50m as a Championship player. As you rightfully point out, since leaving he has had a good run in the Premier League and been capped for England. His reputation and market value have grown exponentially as a result.

The only way we could have seen him reach that kind of value here is if we had been promoted.

Time and time again it has been shown that Wharton basically went in the same band as all of the bigger young prospects in the Championship. A few go for a bit more. A few go for a bit less. Even Jude Bellingham 'only' went for an initial 25m and he was a) better and b) more highly sought after.

But I guess I should give my head a wobble. 

[Mattyblue]

So like I said it goes round in circles.

We sold at the worst possible time, I.e he’d only played 50 or so Championship games and we were a distressed seller, so Palace stumbled on a highly opportune moment as we had stamped ‘buy him, we’re skint’ on his forehead, £18 million was all it would ever be as we approached February 2024 with the state the club was in.

And of course any funds we did get would go to pay the tax bill and the leccy on behalf of the owners, not to rebuild the side, ergo a great deal for Palace and Venky’s, a terrible one for Blackburn Rovers.