Adam Wharton

[London blue]

27 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Maybe we should maybe not. 

only Palace was interested and signed him, We will get another 5-10 mil with the sell on clause 

Rovers need the money from his sale to fund the club losses that season and this one

We all know why he was sold. 

We all know we'll get more when he's sold on.

We got so little cos they couldn't wait to sell. It's very simple.

[Forever Blue]

34 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Maybe we should maybe not. 

only Palace was interested and signed him, We will get another 5-10 mil with the sell on clause 

Rovers need the money from his sale to fund the club losses that season and this one

Still repeating the same shite. We got rinsed because we needed quick money. Everyone at the club knows that.

[islander200]

23 hours ago, Forever Blue said:

Still repeating the same shite. We got rinsed because we needed quick money. Everyone at the club knows that.

How much more do you think we would have got for Wharton if we waited until the summer to sell him?(as for the lads own career he would have had to move on in the summer)

Like you say we got rinsed but at the same time there wasn't a queue of teams in for him at that knockdown price in the January.

I accept a few clubs that might have been interested couldn't sign him due to ffp constraints but not that many.His fee would have been paid over the length of his contract so I'm not having most clubs would have been in bother by putting 4 or 5 million on that years accounts. 

I think there was doubts over his body,physicallity and his ability to see out 90 minutes at Premier league level.Media speculation has it Newcastle considered him in the summer before the jan we sold him and those reservations led to them crossing him off their list.

Unless we were operating at the top end of the table and competing/beating the better teams or playing against prem teams in the cups and competing with Wharton in form then I don't think we would have seen much more for him.

The shame for me is we didn't get to enjoy him for as long as possible as he should have been kept to the summer but without exposure against better teams then I don't think we would have got much more for him,we might have got 20/22.5 guaranteed rather than the 18.5 guaranteed but it would have been clubs like Palace  evertons etc bidding not the bigger teams without the test at premier league level,those bigger  clubs could have bought him ahead of Palace in the January without ffp trouble if they appreciated him as a player like the majority of our fan base did.

[den]

4 minutes ago, islander200 said:

How much more do you think we would have got for Wharton if we waited until the summer to sell him?(as for the lads own career he would have had to move on in the summer)

Like you say we got rinsed but at the same time there wasn't a queue of teams in for him at that knockdown price in the January.

I accept a few clubs that might have been interested couldn't sign him due to ffp constraints but not that many.His fee would have been paid over the length of his contract so I'm not having most clubs would have been in bother by putting 4 or 5 million on that years accounts. 

I think there was doubts over his body,physicallity and his ability to see out 90 minutes at Premier league level.Media speculation has it Newcastle considered him in the summer before the jan we sold him and those reservations led to them crossing him off their list.

Unless we were operating at the top end of the table and competing/beating the better teams or playing against prem teams in the cups and competing with Wharton in form then I don't think we would have seen much more for him.

The shame for me is we didn't get to enjoy him for as long as possible as he should have been kept to the summer but without exposure against better teams then I don't think we would have got much more for him,we might have got 20/22.5 guaranteed rather than the 18.5 guaranteed but it would have been clubs like Palace  evertons etc bidding not the bigger teams without the test at premier league level,those bigger  clubs could have bought him ahead of Palace in the January without ffp trouble if they appreciated him as a player like the majority of our fan base did.

I’m not sure what you’re basing your view on, that we wouldn’t have got more for him.

The longer we’d have kept him, the more his talent would have become apparent to every club. There would have been a queue a mile long for him. 

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, den said:

I’m not sure what you’re basing your view on, that we wouldn’t have got more for him.

The longer we’d have kept him, the more his talent would have become apparent to every club. There would have been a queue a mile long for him. 

Why wasn't there a queue in the January?I'm Basing my opinion on that and the media report that Newcastle and other clubs looked and had doubts over his physicallity. 

How does he erase those doubts by playing at the same level for us who were in shocking form?

I'm not doubting the lad I think he is top class and was worth a lot more than we sold him for but like I said it was only Palace that agreed the low fee for him in January and I disagree that loads of clubs would have been willing to pay much more for him 6 months later 

[Forever Blue]

22 minutes ago, islander200 said:

How much more do you think we would have got for Wharton if we waited until the summer to sell him?(as for the lads own career he would have had to move on in the summer)

Like you say we got rinsed but at the same time there wasn't a queue of teams in for him at that knockdown price in the January.

I accept a few clubs that might have been interested couldn't sign him due to ffp constraints but not that many.His fee would have been paid over the length of his contract so I'm not having most clubs would have been in bother by putting 4 or 5 million on that years accounts. 

I think there was doubts over his body,physicallity and his ability to see out 90 minutes at Premier league level.Media speculation has it Newcastle considered him in the summer before the jan we sold him and those reservations led to them crossing him off their list.

Unless we were operating at the top end of the table and competing/beating the better teams or playing against prem teams in the cups and competing with Wharton in form then I don't think we would have seen much more for him.

The shame for me is we didn't get to enjoy him for as long as possible as he should have been kept to the summer but without exposure against better teams then I don't think we would have got much more for him,we might have got 20/22.5 guaranteed rather than the 18.5 guaranteed but it would have been clubs like Palace  evertons etc bidding not the bigger teams without the test at premier league level,those bigger  clubs could have bought him ahead of Palace in the January without ffp trouble if they appreciated him as a player like the majority of our fan base did.

JDT told them to wait until summer before selling. His ceiling would have been much higher. Everyone at the club knew we’d sold him on the cheap.
 

Alex Scott, for reference, went from Bristol City To B’mouth a few months earlier for £25m. He isn’t a patch on Wharton. 

Edited Friday at 13:25 by Forever Blue

[lraC]

4 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

JDT told them to wait until summer before selling. His ceiling would have been much higher. Everyone at the club knew we’d sold him on the cheap.
 

Alex Scott, for reference, went from Bristol City To B’mouth a few months earlier for £25m. He isn’t a patch on Wharton. 

It is a shame, they didn't heed that advise, as I suspect, not only would we have got more for him, but the sell on clause, would have been higher too.

I think we all know and not just with Hindsight that, Adam is a far better player than Alex Scott.

[islander200]

8 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

JDT told them to wait until summer before selling. His ceiling would have been much higher. Everyone at the club knew we’d sold him on the cheap.
 

Alex Scott, for reference, went from Bristol City To B’mouth a few months earlier for £25m. He isn’t a patch on Wharton. 

I agree he is better than Scott and worth more 

I'm still not having that we would have got much more for him and am disgusted that we did sell him in January 

But he was available for a relative pittance and only Palace bit, it took him leaving here to even get England under 21 recognition so he just wasn't being as rated as he should have been ,it took a move for him to get the recognition he deserved 

[Forever Blue]

15 minutes ago, islander200 said:

I agree he is better than Scott and worth more 

I'm still not having that we would have got much more for him and am disgusted that we did sell him in January 

But he was available for a relative pittance and only Palace bit, it took him leaving here to even get England under 21 recognition so he just wasn't being as rated as he should have been ,it took a move for him to get the recognition he deserved 

You don’t know enough about the transfer materialised to be able to state categorically he wasn’t ‘rated as he should have been’. The reports at the time said interested clubs were holding off till summer…this included Chelsea. 
 

Everybody with eyes in their head knew how good he was.

We were a distressed seller. Palace took advantage of that. It all happened very quickly and I’d imagine every big club in Europe is kicking themselves. 

[islander200]

8 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

You don’t know enough about the transfer materialised to be able to state categorically he wasn’t ‘rated as he should have been’. The reports at the time said interested clubs were holding off till summer…this included Chelsea. 
 

Everybody with eyes in their head knew how good he was.

We were a distressed seller. Palace took advantage of that. It all happened very quickly and I’d imagine every big club in Europe is kicking themselves. 

England under 21s then?Tyler morton was a regular for them 

City....Arsenal....Liverpool...Chelsea....Spurs ....Villa...Brighton..etc ...etc could have bought him in January ahead of Palace. They didn't, Palace weren't privvy to some insider information that we were distressed sellers 

Enough there for me to believe its entirely plausible that he wasn't being rated as highly externally as his talent deserves 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

Media speculation has it Newcastle considered him in the summer before the jan we sold him and those reservations led to them crossing him off their list.

Dan Ashworth attended a few Rovers home games watching him 

[Forever Blue]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

England under 21s then?Tyler morton was a regular for them 

City....Arsenal....Liverpool...Chelsea....Spurs ....Villa...Brighton..etc ...etc could have bought him in January ahead of Palace. They didn't, Palace weren't privvy to some insider information that we were distressed sellers 

Enough there for me to believe its entirely plausible that he wasn't being rated as highly externally as his talent deserves 

Again, you don’t know how the transfer came about. It’s entirely possible CP made a take it or leave it offer which we had to take as we were desperate to sell. Like I said, everyone at the club knew we’d sold him on the cheap. That’s the bottom line. 

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

Again, you don’t know how the transfer came about. It’s entirely possible CP made a take it or leave it offer which we had to take as we were desperate to sell. Like I said, everyone at the club knew we’d sold him on the cheap. That’s the bottom line. 

We rejected Palace first bid

 

 

Edited Friday at 16:05 by chaddyrovers

[jim mk2]

2 hours ago, islander200 said:

Why wasn't there a queue in the January?I'm Basing my opinion on that and the media report that Newcastle and other clubs looked and had doubts over his physicallity. 

How does he erase those doubts by playing at the same level for us who were in shocking form?

I'm not doubting the lad I think he is top class and was worth a lot more than we sold him for but like I said it was only Palace that agreed the low fee for him in January and I disagree that loads of clubs would have been willing to pay much more for him 6 months later 

 

Agree with this.

There wasn't a queue because although the top clubs were well aware of Wharton, they had their doubts about him.

Palace took a punt and were the only club to put hard cash on the table. 

It's like selling a house: it's only worth what someone is willing to pay, not the perceived "market value". Rovers wanted to sell quickly and there was one serious bidder.

End of story really

 

 

[JHRover]

We'd have been in the Premier League or would have gone very close to it if they had backed JDT in January 2023 or January 2024. 

If the owners had shown any interest, confidence, faith in the man they appointed to coach the team they'd have backed him to finish the job. Teams serious about getting promotion don't look to sell their best players in January.

Instead he got Sorba Thomas on loan and then they actively sabotaged the rest by deliberately pulling the plug on the O'Brien and McGuire deals and then actively looking to sell Adam Wharton to raise some money.

 

[bluebruce]

One of the things often forgotten in the 'how much more would we have gotten in the summer' defence of the sale is that we would have had another half a season of Adam Wharton to enjoy.

Another thing often forgotten is that any extra money is extra money. Even if it was only a million more, that's nearly as much as we spent on Gueye.

[bluebruce]

43 minutes ago, JHRover said:

We'd have been in the Premier League or would have gone very close to it if they had backed JDT in January 2023 or January 2024. 

If the owners had shown any interest, confidence, faith in the man they appointed to coach the team they'd have backed him to finish the job. Teams serious about getting promotion don't look to sell their best players in January.

Instead he got Sorba Thomas on loan and then they actively sabotaged the rest by deliberately pulling the plug on the O'Brien and McGuire deals and then actively looking to sell Adam Wharton to raise some money.

 

In fairness, promotion wasn't on the cards in January 2024. At the close of the month we were 11 points from the playoffs and only 8 from the relegation spots. At the start of the window we were equidistant to both. Even if we had been on the ball from the start of the month (that can't be guaranteed at most clubs tbf, let alone this clusterfuck of disorganisation), it's speculative at best to say we'd have gone very close to promotion. Our form was already in the toilet. Selling Wharton without reinvesting the funds did, however, make a relegation scrap inevitable.

January 2023, however, there can be no excuses for not seizing the iron. We were in a great position and needed reinforcements to get over the line. With the right backing it's extremely likely we'd have at least made the playoffs.

Edited Friday at 16:55 by bluebruce

[islander200]

1 hour ago, Forever Blue said:

Again, you don’t know how the transfer came about. It’s entirely possible CP made a take it or leave it offer which we had to take as we were desperate to sell. Like I said, everyone at the club knew we’d sold him on the cheap. That’s the bottom line. 

And again you ignore his exclusion from the England under 21 set up.

You made the comparison with Scott earlier,and I agreed Wharton is way more talented but fact remains Scott was an England under 21 regular even captaining them.Wharton was a year playing in the Championship for us and never made the squad. 

You are right I don't know how the transfer came about ,but we rejected the first bid from Palace and Palace weren't the only club who knew we needed money. If Wharton was as rated by prem teams that his talent deserved make no mistake other clubs would have been in for him at that price. 

You said earlier Chelsea wanted to wait until the summer,yeah at roughly the same price we sold him for or are you saying Chelsea would have paid many millions more for him in the summer but wouldn't pay the £18 in January. Why would they do that?

[Mattyblue]

If there wasn’t a queue offering big money because clubs still had doubts, how about not selling him to the first bidder then?

Oh that’s right they’d put a ‘please buy him we can’t pay our bills’ stamp on his head…

[roversfan99]

There might not have been a big queue late in the January window to sign him.

That doesnt mean we wouldnt have been able to get a lot more in the summer though or even beyond. Distressed seller pushing him out the door late in the mid season window where you always get less big money deals doesnt mean that if it was the summer, if we wasnt as desperate and if hes further showcased his ability, then we couldnt have got a lot more.

[islander200]

46 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

If there wasn’t a queue offering big money because clubs still had doubts, how about not selling him to the first bidder then?

Oh that’s right they’d put a ‘please buy him we can’t pay our bills’ stamp on his head…

That's not the argument I'm making though ,I agreed we shouldn't have sold him but there was obviously doubts about him(not from me) but from clubs higher up.if they thought he was a world class talent and capable of adapting to the Premier league as easily as he has done then there would have been a queue of clubs in for the price we sold him for 

Like I said he hadn't been included for the under 21s after a year playing regularly for us so this thought that clubs would have been willing to pay much more is fetched in my opinion . For some reason he wasn't as rated externally as he should have been 

 

[Mattyblue]

Obviously he wasn’t as even that Mainoo was ahead of him and where’s he disappeared to?

No queue of buyers, so you won’t be getting top dollar and the lad was happy here - but let’s sell anyway  👏

 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

We'd have been in the Premier League or would have gone very close to it if they had backed JDT in January 2023 or January 2024. 

If the owners had shown any interest, confidence, faith in the man they appointed to coach the team they'd have backed him to finish the job. Teams serious about getting promotion don't look to sell their best players in January.

Instead he got Sorba Thomas on loan and then they actively sabotaged the rest by deliberately pulling the plug on the O'Brien and McGuire deals and then actively looking to sell Adam Wharton to raise some money.

The first January 2023, we had Undav in for talks who I believe would be the missing link between promotion and not/playoffs place. He decided not to come but we had no back up plan as GB admitted in his post transfer window update. 

in January 2024, we were 17th in the league and the start of the window and badly out of form, team morale not good and head coach who didn't want to be able and was lining up the Swedish national team job. 

[roversfan99]

21 minutes ago, islander200 said:

That's not the argument I'm making though ,I agreed we shouldn't have sold him but there was obviously doubts about him(not from me) but from clubs higher up.if they thought he was a world class talent and capable of adapting to the Premier league as easily as he has done then there would have been a queue of clubs in for the price we sold him for 

Like I said he hadn't been included for the under 21s after a year playing regularly for us so this thought that clubs would have been willing to pay much more is fetched in my opinion . For some reason he wasn't as rated externally as he should have been 

 

But we forced him out the door at the end of the January window desperately.

So you have:

- desperation to sell

- selling in the January window where teams dont do the bulk of their business

- selling at the end of an already shorter window so time pressured

- he hasnt played as much as he would have done had we waited until at least the summer

All of them factors caused him to be sold for less than we could have got for him. 

I dont get the obsession around England under 21s. Archie Gray had barely played for them before his transfer to Spurs.

[Salgados Hair]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Dan Ashworth attended a few Rovers home games watching him