v Hull City (h) 15/4/23 @ 19.45pm

[AllRoverAsia]

6 hours ago, DE. said:

It's nothing to do with divine right, that's just a lazy cliche used to avoid engaging properly. People make excuses about ffp, the squad, parachute payments, but none of them hold up when you look at many of the clubs around us who are in similar positions - Luton, Millwall, Coventry, Sunderland. They've adapted to their situations and made progress. If we go from being 2nd midway through the season to finishing below them I don't see how that can be spun as anything other than failure, but it was done often enough with Mowbray so I'm sure it will. That's not to lay the blame solely at the feet of JDT either, significant amounts of blame lie with the players, many of whom have track records of wilting under pressure, and our recruitment team who let everybody down in a massive way in January. 

There's still a chance to salvage the season. We're clinging to 6th despite losing momentum. Wednesday is now critical. 

I've seen quite a bit of Luton, Millwall and Coventry and whilst there is skill scattered around those teams they are where they are through being teams that give it all for every minute of every game leaving nowt on the pitch. They all have shithousery in their DNA but they do put the effort in. They will all give us a severe testing as will PNE at their Lego stadium.

[AllRoverAsia]

6 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I got back home at midnight so too late to post.  Here goes today. I’ve always said with Rovers that you can tell after ten minutes what sort of performances you are going to get. After ten minutes of walking football were Hyam ,Carter, and Pears had a little kick about of their own I feared the worst. Was I wrong ? That was a truly dreadful performance. Nobody came out of it with any credit at all. Did their goalkeeper actually have a save to make all game ? This was a weakened Hull team who are roughly mid table at best and we needed a win desperately. Yet the keeper can wear the same kit for the next match un washed.

Play like that again and we won’t win another game. Play-offs, we’re having a laugh.

Like 99% of people I was scratching my head at the starting line up. Why change the 4-3-3 that served us well at Hudds ? I don’t get it. Travis and Morton haven’t got what it takes to run a game but a three with Wharton in there have. The subs were WAY too late, especially Wharton. A brave manager would have made changes at half time, not with ten minutes to go.

Another thing that worried me was when Hull had a go in the second half how easily they broke away. Indeed right from the 2nd half kick off they had a well worked move that cut us wide open. If they had a striker playing they must have scored at some point, they got into some good positions second half. Fair play to them, they didn’t rollover and die like some other mid table teams might have done. The dingles have the players to take advantage of opportunities like that.

I could on and on about how bad we were, I can’t think of one real plus on show last night. We didn’t look a well coached, well set up team last night, it was pretty much a shambles. We wouldn’t have scored if we’d played whilst midnight.

Scores 

Pears 6, Nothing much to do. Part of a real mix up in communication that nearly led to a disaster.

JRC 6, Not his normal self, maybe he was tired after playing Hudds on his own in midweek.

Carter 6, OK, not great. Has too much to do when JRC goes down field.

Hyam 5, Looked shaky, as though he doesn’t enjoy the tip tappy keep ball game.

Pickering 6, OK, every team targets him with the high ball.

Travis 6, Tried hard as usual  but not really effective going forward.

Morton 5, Not mobile enough for me and no real presence in centre field.

Dolan 6, Put in the effort as usual but missed a real sitter. At the least he should have worked the keeper.

Szmodics 5, Works hard but for me he’s playing above his ability level. Too many poor first touches.

Gallagher 4, A truly awful performance. He’s gone backwards to the point he’s no longer capable of playing at this level or possibly the one below.

Brererton 4, Another really poor performance. Has he got a brain ? Their right back was running back towards his own corner flag with absolutely nowhere to go. What does BBD do - push him in the back ! ! Problem solved for the right back instantly.

Subs 

Hedges 6, Look bright for me and I like to see his left foot on the left. Put in a good cross that just eluded Leonard, who incidentally, was the only Rovers player in the box at that shit or bust moment !

Thomas 4, Every cross was easily dealt with apart from that greedy shot into the side netting.

Wharton and Leonard - hard to score off 10 minutes but both did good things in that time.

 

 

 
 

 

I agree with all of that.

The passing around at the back is a major reason why Hyam looks poor. He passes to Carter who stops the ball, puts his foot on the top of the ball and then passes back to Hyam, who's wondering what sort sort of pass, speed etc, will he get.  Rinse and repeat.

Morton and Travis are invariably no shows so the above goes on until it's passed to Pears to boot long or passed long, to nobody usually.

Its a hard watch.

 

[AllRoverAsia]

9 minutes ago, BigBar said:

In alot of games pal. There is alot of unconvincing wins and alot of damning soul destroying defeats. Why people think he will go onto bigger and better things is beyond me. I can't see him being a success in England in the long run.

Yes and thanks for saying it.

[Sweaty Gussets]

1 hour ago, roverinmontreal said:

Couldn’t watch the game live so I stayed offline until I could watch it. Just finished and yeah… I guess this happened ⬆️

I’m one of jdt’s biggest fans, but how come we all knew this was going to happen (apart from @Sweaty Gussets) but jdt didn’t didn’t? But then also why oh why oh why wait that late to change it? Baffling. 

You called, squire? 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

24 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I agree with all of that.

The passing around at the back is a major reason why Hyam looks poor. He passes to Carter who stops the ball, puts his foot on the top of the ball and then passes back to Hyam, who's wondering what sort sort of pass, speed etc, will he get.  Rinse and repeat.

Morton and Travis are invariably no shows so the above goes on until it's passed to Pears to boot long or passed long, to nobody usually.

Its a hard watch.

 

And when they do pass the ball into midfield the receiver inevitably is moving back towards our goal with an opponent pressing them. One slip and possession is lost in a really dangerous area of the pitch. Everything about it is wrong. The passes are always played directly to feet so the receiver has to stop and wait for the ball to arrive and then control it. The guy pressing has all the advantages, he’s on the move and he doesn’t have to control the ball, he just needs to get a foot in.
 

I was on the Rochdale site earlier and their fans were saying the same things - they lost an early goal in their crucial relegation game yesterday because they were pissing around at the back. Imagine trying to play passing the ball out from the back when you’re bottom of the old 4th division ! Madness.

Centre halves are centre halves for a reason. If they were brilliant with the ball at their feet they’d be running midfield or banging in the goals up front. Even Mike England, who the best centre half I ever saw, was only half the player playing up front. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[BigBar]

2 hours ago, roverinmontreal said:

Couldn’t watch the game live so I stayed offline until I could watch it. Just finished and yeah… I guess this happened ⬆️

I’m one of jdt’s biggest fans, but how come we all knew this was going to happen (apart from @Sweaty Gussets) but jdt didn’t didn’t? But then also why oh why oh why wait that late to change it? Baffling. 

Because it was obvious. Could sense it before Norwich,Hudds and last night. Manager is naive and the players aren't up to it when the chips are down.

[BigBar]

4 hours ago, RoversTilliDie said:

Since we beat Sheffield United at Ewood,  we have picked up 2pts out of 15. We need to go on a winning run, or our season will be derailed.

Well that's depressing for a team in the top 6 since February 21st of there abouts.

[BigBar]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I've seen quite a bit of Luton, Millwall and Coventry and whilst there is skill scattered around those teams they are where they are through being teams that give it all for every minute of every game leaving nowt on the pitch. They all have shithousery in their DNA but they do put the effort in. They will all give us a severe testing as will PNE at their Lego stadium.

Very well drilled and committed. Got them a very long way.

 

[K-Hod]

What a big concern is aside from the possession for possession’s sake, is that the movement is non-existent and there’s never an option to pass to.

I guess that’s a self-fulfilling prophecy,  it it’s a really tough watch. It’s almost like our players have forgotten what areas of the pitch they’re supposed to occupy!

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

And when they do pass the ball into midfield the receiver inevitably is moving back towards our goal with an opponent pressing them. One slip and possession is lost in a really dangerous area of the pitch. Everything about it is wrong. The passes are always played directly to feet so the receiver has to stop and wait for the ball to arrive and then control it. The guy pressing has all the advantages, he’s on the move and he doesn’t have to control the ball, he just needs to get a foot in.
 

I was on the Rochdale site earlier and their fans were saying the same things - they lost an early goal in their crucial relegation game yesterday because they were pissing around at the back. Imagine trying to play passing the ball out from the back when you’re bottom of the old 4th division ! Madness.

Centre halves are centre halves for a reason. If they were brilliant with the ball at their feet they’d be running midfield or banging in the goals up front. Even Mike England, who the best centre half I ever saw, was only half the player playing up front. 

The Guardian did a good exposé of this nonsense in leagues below the PL trying to use players who are just not skill equipped to do it consistently well. Even in the PL they mess up lots of times.

[BigBar]

9 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

The Guardian did a good exposé of this nonsense in leagues below the PL trying to use players who are just not skill equipped to do it consistently well. Even in the PL they mess up lots of times.

Saw a post somewhere, maybe on here about what a disadvantage it is for this massive encouragement to play football "the right way" and that it just feeds into the hands of the bigger clubs. In a nutshell the bigger clubs can get the best players at playing it out from the back. If all or most teams start to take this approach they will simple get outplayed and lose. It will keep the bigger clubs successfup and on top. You need a division with 20 differents styles or at least 10-12. There were times last night where we had a throw in and all I was thinking was "launch it into the fucking box". It's unpredictable and causes all sorts of problems but instead we throw it short and end up back in our own half 2 passes later as opposed to in their box with 2 centre halves and 3 strikers looking to get on the end of it with a couple of midfielders looking to pick up the loose balls. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

What a big concern is aside from the possession for possession’s sake, is that the movement is non-existent and there’s never an option to pass to.

I guess that’s a self-fulfilling prophecy,  it it’s a really tough watch. It’s almost like our players have forgotten what areas of the pitch they’re supposed to occupy!

Mentioned this a number of time this season about the lack of movement in our attacking play plus the tempo of our passing is another problem 

[Blue blood]

1 minute ago, BigBar said:

Saw a post somewhere, maybe on here about what a disadvantage it is for this massive encouragement to play football "the right way" and that it just feeds into the hands of the bigger clubs. In a nutshell the bigger clubs can get the best players at playing it out from the back. If all or most teams start to take this approach they will simple get outplayed and lose. It will keep the bigger clubs successfup and on top. You need a division with 20 differents styles or at least 10-12. There were times last night where we had a throw in and all I was thinking was "launch it into the fucking box". It's unpredictable and causes all sorts of problems but instead we throw it short and end up back in our own half 2 passes later as opposed to in their box with 2 centre halves and 3 strikers looking to get on the end of it with a couple of midfielders looking to pick up the loose balls. 

Spot on. West Ham are a massive example of this. Did well the last 2 years playing on the counter. Switched to play out from the back and "playing between the lines" (?) and have massively struggled 

This one-way,right way to play football ideology is hurting the game. 

[Blue blood]

As for the game/team my thoughts (albeit second hand due to sickness) are

1) The cup loss has knocked all the stuffing out of us. Most results since then have been lower than the likely outcome from how the game has gone. Hudds should have been a clear win, Stoke a draw, yesterday it seems pre QF loss might have been a scrappy win. Certainly Hull don't seem that good. 

2) We have a lot of very average players who consistently give about a 5/6. There's no superstars in the team, and we aren't getting more than the collective sum of these parts at all. The players may produce the odd 8 out of 10 performance but these are pretty rare. With no stars and a weak bunch of water carriers we are struggling. 

3) Has there been a team with fewer decent attacking options? Struggle to think of one  in our Championship career. Even the train wreck under Coyle had 4 striker options (less.said the better about the rest). Given how crucial goals are not strengthening there and having Gally and Bereton coast about doesn't help our cause. No plan B or viable options is killing us. 

4) On the last point this goes for most of the team. Centre mid Buckley or Morton are similar (Wharton is in the cold for some reason and even so that's a lot of responsibility for the lad.) Out wide it's Dolans pace in an average player Vs Hedges presence in an average player. Up front its Gally or Vale who in ap perveresely impressive way  makes Gally seem decent. Where are the options? Only thing I could potentially think to try is JRC further forward and Brittain at RB. 

Mind you this is what years of underfunding gets you. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Anybody else see one of their centre halves just push Szmodics over in the second half ? They were on their own just inside the Hull half and Szmodics turned the centre half and was about to set off running after a long ball that was on the way. Their guy just shoved him over with both hands in the middle of his back ! The Lino was on the Riverside but his eyes must have been painted on. Could easily have been a red card.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Mashed Potatoes]

11 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

As for the game/team my thoughts (albeit second hand due to sickness) are

1) The cup loss has knocked all the stuffing out of us. Most results since then have been lower than the likely outcome from how the game has gone. Hudds should have been a clear win, Stoke a draw, yesterday it seems pre QF loss might have been a scrappy win. Certainly Hull don't seem that good. 

2) We have a lot of very average players who consistently give about a 5/6. There's no superstars in the team, and we aren't getting more than the collective sum of these parts at all. The players may produce the odd 8 out of 10 performance but these are pretty rare. With no stars and a weak bunch of water carriers we are struggling. 

3) Has there been a team with fewer decent attacking options? Struggle to think of one  in our Championship career. Even the train wreck under Coyle had 4 striker options (less.said the better about the rest). Given how crucial goals are not strengthening there and having Gally and Bereton coast about doesn't help our cause. No plan B or viable options is killing us. 

4) On the last point this goes for most of the team. Centre mid Buckley or Morton are similar (Wharton is in the cold for some reason and even so that's a lot of responsibility for the lad.) Out wide it's Dolans pace in an average player Vs Hedges presence in an average player. Up front its Gally or Vale who in ap perveresely impressive way  makes Gally seem decent. Where are the options? Only thing I could potentially think to try is JRC further forward and Brittain at RB. 

Mind you this is what years of underfunding gets you. 

"Years of underfunding"? I hold no candle for the owners who have made many bad decisions but they have been losing £15m - £20m a year for many years.

[roversfan99]

Making losses doesn't automatically mean that the squad has been adequately funded. Losses are to be expected at this level because Championship wages are not in line with income across the board. This is made worse for us because we are run negligently, not maximising our income fully and with our owners preventing us from being able to sell players to be able to reinvest.

Our squad is probably over reliant on our academy. It is a good job that a lot are talented enough but some perhaps arent ready, and it also means that we lack experience.

[AllRoverAsia]

16 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

As for the game/team my thoughts (albeit second hand due to sickness) are

1) The cup loss has knocked all the stuffing out of us. Most results since then have been lower than the likely outcome from how the game has gone. Hudds should have been a clear win, Stoke a draw, yesterday it seems pre QF loss might have been a scrappy win. Certainly Hull don't seem that good. 

2) We have a lot of very average players who consistently give about a 5/6. There's no superstars in the team, and we aren't getting more than the collective sum of these parts at all. The players may produce the odd 8 out of 10 performance but these are pretty rare. With no stars and a weak bunch of water carriers we are struggling. 

3) Has there been a team with fewer decent attacking options? Struggle to think of one  in our Championship career. Even the train wreck under Coyle had 4 striker options (less.said the better about the rest). Given how crucial goals are not strengthening there and having Gally and Bereton coast about doesn't help our cause. No plan B or viable options is killing us. 

4) On the last point this goes for most of the team. Centre mid Buckley or Morton are similar (Wharton is in the cold for some reason and even so that's a lot of responsibility for the lad.) Out wide it's Dolans pace in an average player Vs Hedges presence in an average player. Up front its Gally or Vale who in ap perveresely impressive way  makes Gally seem decent. Where are the options? Only thing I could potentially think to try is JRC further forward and Brittain at RB. 

Mind you this is what years of underfunding gets you. 

The good cup run should have given the team a positive vibe and it was management's job to make sure that happened. I think team selections have undermined morale, players aren't all thickos....

Average players for sure, so do Luton Millwall and Coventry who just look more "together" in the fight. Better organised and just more up for it.

And then in consecutive January windows failing to spend the funding allegedly available when well positioned in the table. This time GB, plus whomever messed up on D Day, failed JDT.

[Gav]

15 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

"Years of underfunding"? I hold no candle for the owners who have made many bad decisions but they have been losing £15m - £20m a year for many years.

That’s because they’re incompetent fools.

Keeping the lights on, as a posed to not spending in the rights areas are two completely different things. 

 

[Wheelton Blue]

33 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Anybody else see one of their centre halves just push Szmodics over in the second half ? They were on their own just inside the Hull and Szmodics turned the centre half and was about to set off running after a long ball that was on the way. Their guy just shoved him over with both hands in the middle of his back ! The Lino was on the Riverside but his eyes must have been painted on. Could easily have been a red card.

Szmodics nearly lost his head at that. Second later, he basically hacked one of theirs down.

[NeilInBristol]

6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Did Sky Sports give Dolan man of the match yesterday? 

right oh but we are still 6th and its down to what we do not reliant on other teams results

"Since we beat Sheffield United at Ewood, we have picked up 2pts out of 15. We need to go on a winning run, or our season will be derailed"

 

We are still 6th but what we do currently has been poor

[tomphil]

Losing a certain amount through the books here they are quite comfortable with they wouldn't do it otherwise.

Sadly the ever growing running costs and low income mean there is very little to actually invest but the team and coach also have a duty to serve something up to pull more punters in and sell more STs.

The advert for that has been poor.

[frosty]

6 hours ago, RoversTilliDie said:

Since we beat Sheffield United at Ewood,  we have picked up 2pts out of 15. We need to go on a winning run, or our season will be derailed.

You must have missed the Reading home win out - it's five points from six games/18 points since then (not that that's anything to shout about, of course).

[AllRoverAsia]

49 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Anybody else see one of their centre halves just push Szmodics over in the second half ? They were on their own just inside the Hull half and Szmodics turned the centre half and was about to set off running after a long ball that was on the way. Their guy just shoved him over with both hands in the middle of his back ! The Lino was on the Riverside but his eyes must have been painted on. Could easily have been a red card.

I saw the same happen in today's PL games, unpunished even with VAR. Rules are made up as they go along.

[chaddyrovers]

35 minutes ago, Neilbristol said:

"Since we beat Sheffield United at Ewood, we have picked up 2pts out of 15. We need to go on a winning run, or our season will be derailed"

 

We are still 6th but what we do currently has been poor

Isn't 5 points from last 5 games?