v Millwall (a) - Monday 8th May

[Hasta]

2 hours ago, only2garners said:

No they hadn't. It was still 0-0 at Deepdale - Sunderland only scored their first 3 minutes after JRC scored.

It must have when we made it 3-3. I quickly flicked channels over as soon as one of our goals went in and the Sunderland players were all celebrating. It must have been as they made it 2-0.

[Hasta]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

A lot of assumptions there. The fact is we came back from 3-1 down to an in probably the most intimidating ground in the country. Millwall played on the break for most of the second half because we were attacking them. It was only after the fourth goal and we brought Ayala on that we sat in deeper.

Look, I'm delighted we won not just for ourselves but for all you lot that went down there. It's just my feeling watching it was that it was all a bit of after the Lord Mayors show.

In the last couple of months we've just dropped in a hole whilst it has been entirely in our own hands. Forgive me for thinking that suddenly scoring a load of goals and Brereton miraculously returning to form once it is out of our hands doesn't really show bottle. It more tells me that we lacked it when we needed it.

Still, they are a very young squad and they will certainly learn from the experience.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Hasta

[Sweaty Gussets]

33 minutes ago, broadsword said:

I tell you what the project should be. Never take a backward step, let no one outwork you, be second to no one when it comes to hard work, preparation, application and belief. Never give anything up, and if you go down, go down fighting.

Instead we get all this cobblers about journeys and projects. It's just displacement talk, deferring actually achieving anything to some unspecified future point. It saps the life out of people, ruins morale and ensures you'll stay stuck where you are

Harsh. I don't think the project talk from JDT is the same as the project talk from Mowbray. Under Mowbray nothing changed, it was the same season after season. Same excuses, same death spirals, same mistakes.

There is clear progression under JDT for anyone who cares to look for it. Or at least a clear direction of travel, with a specific way of playing identifiable. You can definitely see what he is trying to do here, if you'll pardon the hoary old cliche. I never got that impression with Mowbray. 

This summer is pivotal. I've never been more hopeful in the last decade than I am now. However all that is predicated on JDT staying. 

[dingles staying down 4ever]

2 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Harsh. I don't think the project talk from JDT is the same as the project talk from Mowbray. Under Mowbray nothing changed, it was the same season after season. Same excuses, same death spirals, same mistakes.

There is clear progression under JDT for anyone who cares to look for it. Or at least a clear direction of travel, with a specific way of playing identifiable. You can definitely see what he is trying to do here, if you'll pardon the hoary old cliche. I never got that impression with Mowbray. 

This summer is pivotal. I've never been more hopeful in the last decade than I am now. However all that is predicated on JDT staying. 

Same story, same excuses different manager. Did we not have a death spiral again, just later in the season?

I agree though this summer is pivotal. We can build but if Venky's pull the rug under this management team then trouble could be ahead.

[broadsword]

I would absolutely agree that this summer is pivotal. Let's see where we are come early August and reassess.

[Sweaty Gussets]

2 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Same story, same excuses different manager. Did we not have a death spiral again, just later in the season?

I agree though this summer is pivotal. We can build but if Venky's pull the rug under this management team then trouble could be ahead.

Caused by exactly the same thing as last year...Rovers not being able to score and BBD clocking off at Christmas. The difference is we played well this season during the death spiral but had absolutely no luck in those games and were relying on Mowbray's players to score. 

Like I said, for anybody who cares to look there is clear progression. 

 

[Mattyblue]

People seem to look far too deeply into managers/directors saying ‘it’s a project’, ‘a journey’ - they all do it. Just modern day football platitudes.

[arbitro]

42 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Look, I'm delighted we won not just for ourselves but for all you lot that went down there. It's just my feeling watching it was that it was all a bit of after the Lord Mayors show.

In the last couple of months we've just dropped in a hole whilst it has been entirely in our own hands. Forgive me for thinking that suddenly scoring a load of goals and Brereton miraculously returning to form once it is out of our hands doesn't really show bottle. It more tells me we lacked it when we needed it.

Still, they are a very young squad and they will certainly learn from the experience.

I was so engrossed in our second half performance that I honestly didn't look at my phone or sense anything from both sets of fans about events at Preston and Swansea. I heard a young lad in front of me say Sunderland were one up but until we were on the train home I didn't know the full time scores, only that Sunderland had won. Unless anything was said to the players from the bench then I don't honestly know how they would have known. On the day we did what we had to do but having the playoff outcome out of our hands was something we couldn't control. The why's and wherefore's of that can be debated but yesterday was a game that I will remember for a long time.

I'm sure the players will have learned a lot yesterday playing in such an important game in a frenzied atmosphere.

[Groundhog]

17 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

People seem to look far too deeply into managers/directors saying ‘it’s a project’, ‘a journey’ - they all do it. Just modern day football platitudes.

Exactly, I never look into it. The desire for "content" from so many press outlets means that managers and players just need easy sentences to fall back on and not over commit. Way of the world. 

[only2garners]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

If you're going to be pedantic I feel compelled to point out thats completely irrelevant as a draw was no use to us, we needed a win in any event regardless of other results.

By the time we took the lead for the first time at 4-3 on 86 mins the game was long since up as Sunderland had gone 3 up some 19 minutes earlier

Give over. At half time we knew that if we won were still in with a chance. That seemed like a ridiculous prospect but clearly they came out to "give it a right good go" (© G Bowyer). Then they scored very quickly - at that time it was still on. By the time we got the third Sunderland were already in control and the game was up. I was fairly sure that the players knew by the time the 4th went in - surely there would have been wild celebrations if they didn't know that Sunderland were winning and there weren't particularly.

[Sweaty Gussets]

28 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I was so engrossed in our second half performance that I honestly didn't look at my phone or sense anything from both sets of fans about events at Preston and Swansea. I heard a young lad in front of me say Sunderland were one up but until we were on the train home I didn't know the full time scores, only that Sunderland had won. Unless anything was said to the players from the bench then I don't honestly know how they would have known. On the day we did what we had to do but having the playoff outcome out of our hands was something we couldn't control. The why's and wherefore's of that can be debated but yesterday was a game that I will remember for a long time.

I'm sure the players will have learned a lot yesterday playing in such an important game in a frenzied atmosphere.

JDT said he only knew 2 minutes from the end what the score was at PNE. I presume it only mattered to him after we went in front. 

[Mattyblue]

Always amazes me, especially at Ewood, how a fair few folk around me can get reception at games… mine goes off grid from about 2.55 until I’m back in my car. Old school finding out from Sports Report on Radio 5…

[RoversTilliDie]

I said before the game it will be to much to ask the last game, all I wanted was a decent performance to end the season and Rovers certainly provided it. Lets get some prolific goal scorers in the Summer and resume business as usual next Season. Just one downer, we will have our work cut out hanging onto Adam Wharton.

[Hasta]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Always amazes me, especially at Ewood, how a fair few folk around me can get reception at games… mine goes off grid from about 2.55 until I’m back in my car. Old school finding out from Sports Report on Radio 5…

On EE I'm fine once I'm in my seat, but get nothing on the concourse.

My mate is on either O2 or Vodafone and he gets nothing kick off to after full time.

[RevidgeBlue]

6 hours ago, arbitro said:

What a load of nonsense.  This is the Millwall thread and a lot of the specifics were about yesterday. The manner in which we won dispelled lots of myths about bottlers. The vast majority of Rovers fans really enjoyed yesterday and if you didn't then that's up to you. As I said earlier you perhaps need to find another hobby which satisfies you.

Hmmm......I have absolutely no axe to grind with you as you are an excellent poster but perhaps you shouldn't be so presumptuous as to tell other people what or what not to do with their time. After all these years of watching the Club I am quite capable of working out what gives me satisfaction. I'm sure you are too and from my point of view rounding the season off with 8 points from 27 to miss out on a play off place on goal difference does not float my boat irrespective of a spirited second half performance yesterday.

I know there seems to be a growing number of supporters who seem to get their enjoyment from merely attending matches and enjoying the day out and to whom the result seems almost irrelevant win lose or draw. If you're in that boat good luck to you, I've never been one of those and I hope the overwhelming majority don't reach that point whereby tolerance of failure is almost universally accepted by which point imo you've let charlatans like Waggott (who I think you've previously rightly said you wouldn't employ to sweep the car park) win.

[Mattyblue]

9 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I know there seems to be a growing number of supporters who seem to get their enjoyment from merely attending matches and enjoying the day out and to whom the result seems almost irrelevant win lose or draw.

I wouldn’t put arbito in that camp. But this isn’t a new phenomenon. It’s why when you go, to say, PNE or Wigan away a good percentage there wouldn’t be seen dead at Ewood and are largely just after a day on the ale and a laugh with mates. Think back to the 80s we’d be taking pretty much as many to some local away games as we’d be getting at home, so obviously many of them non Ewood regulars.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Mattyblue

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

People seem to look far too deeply into managers/directors saying ‘it’s a project’, ‘a journey’ - they all do it. Just modern day football platitudes.

The propaganda works and the constant use of those terms fool the masses.

Basic brainwashing.

[Mattyblue]

Works with who? The fanbase know full well who’s to blame for the debacle in January.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, AllRoverAsia said:

The propaganda works and the constant use of those terms fool the masses.

Basic brainwashing.

"Trust in the process" seems to be the main buzzword at the moment for pulling the wool over everyone's eyes.

[booth]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

Works with who? The fanbase know full well who’s to blame for the debacle in January.

That's true, across the web I'm seeing the blame almost entirely aimed at Waggot and co. I've only seen people on here laying the blame at the managers door.

[arbitro]

14 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Hmmm......I have absolutely no axe to grind with you as you are an excellent poster but perhaps you shouldn't be so presumptuous as to tell other people what or what not to do with their time. After all these years of watching the Club I am quite capable of working out what gives me satisfaction. I'm sure you are too and from my point of view rounding the season off with 8 points from 27 to miss out on a play off place on goal difference does not float my boat irrespective of a spirited second half performance yesterday.

I know there seems to be a growing number of supporters who seem to get their enjoyment from merely attending matches and enjoying the day out and to whom the result seems almost irrelevant win lose or draw. If you're in that boat good luck to you, I've never been one of those and I hope the overwhelming majority don't reach that point whereby tolerance of failure is almost universally accepted by which point imo you've let charlatans like Waggott (who I think you've previously rightly said you wouldn't employ to sweep the car park) win.

How long have you supported Rovers and how many trophies have we won in that time? Of course I want Rovers to win every match but I accept it isn't possible. Therefore enjoyment of the day and occasion is my second priority. Otherwise I just wouldn't do it.

[AllRoverAsia]

16 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

"Trust in the process" seems to be the main buzzword at the moment for pulling the wool over everyone's eyes.

The term is used to "buy time", pass the "ownership" of whatever the process is supposed to be to the audience (if said process fails its your fault) and as a general cover for incompetence.

Edited May 9, 2023 by AllRoverAsia

[RevidgeBlue]

20 minutes ago, arbitro said:

How long have you supported Rovers and how many trophies have we won in that time? Of course I want Rovers to win every match but I accept it isn't possible. Therefore enjoyment of the day and occasion is my second priority. Otherwise I just wouldn't do it.

Obviously.

If I wanted success every week I could just follow Celtic, Rangers or (temporarily) City. I don't expect us to win every week, I just expect players and management to give us supporters a fair shake of the stick which I don't think they have been doing for many seasons now and particularly not during the capitulations in each of the last two seasons.

(52 years. 2 major trophies, 3rd Division Championship, several unsuccessful play off attempts and another 4 promotions I think? So something to celebrate on average once every 5 and a half years and some of that done with absolutely no money let alone billionaire owners pumping in £20m p.a.

Falling well behind that average imo)

Edited May 9, 2023 by RevidgeBlue

[roversfan99]

I still can't get around this idea that they are pumping in £20m a year as if they are doing so out of ambition, and all of it is going to the manager rather than to cover their own inefficiencies.

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

"Celebrations?"

What was there to celebrate exactly? OK, quick question, would the "euphoria" have been the same if hypothetically the same set of results had occurred but this time the victory was not enough to prevent us being relegated as opposed to not being enough to get us into the play offs?

I'd have expected a very muted reaction from players and fans alike in that instance (think Dennis Law after relegating Man Ure in 1974) and I can't see that yesterday was any different. Celebrating wildly after securing an irrelevant win was on a par with going bananas after scoring a consolation goal in a 5-1 defeat to me.

I'm sure you've heard the expression, "show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser". We've in general a team of losers out on the pitch and that losing mentality has transmitted itself to the fan base to the point where expectations appear to have been dumbed down so much that a fairly dismal failure is actually perceived as acceptable or even a glorious defeat.

We came back from 3-1 down and we shown that the players still had the fight and desire to win the game. We could have given up but we didn.t

I enjoyed the game and the comeback from the players and JDT who didn't give in. 

Its your attitude that needs looking at with that last paragraph for posting that our players is a team of losers and losing mentality which isn't true.