Premier League

[rigger]

13 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

My fear would be by giving the refs an extra option you’re just giving them an extra chance to get the decision wrong.

For example, sending someone to the sin bin when it should still be a red card (or when it should only have been a yellow.)

 

Whilst the player is in the sin bin, VAR have a look at the incident and see if it should be upgraded to a red. It is not a perfect system, but it punishes the offending team there and then, not the week after against a team who haven't been offended against.

Edited October 22, 2023 by rigger

[wilsdenrover]

1 minute ago, rigger said:

Whilst the player is in the sin bin, VAR have a look at the incident and see if it should be upgraded to a red. It is not a perfect system, but it punishes the offending team there and then, not the week after against a team who haven't been offended against.

Like the new system in Rugby Union?

Would you trust VAR to make consistent decisions as to what becomes a red?

[rigger]

1 minute ago, wilsdenrover said:

Like the new system in Rugby Union?

Would you trust VAR to make consistent decisions as to what becomes a red?

As I stated, it is not a perfect system. But in my opinion it is better than what we have at the moment in football.

[wilsdenrover]

1 minute ago, rigger said:

As I stated, it is not a perfect system. But in my opinion it is better than what we have at the moment in football.

I certainly wouldn’t be against giving it a try but I would be surprised if it solved the problem.

 

[RoverDom]

1 hour ago, DeeCee said:

All four foul were bookings and both should have been off.

Not for me, the second challenge for both were borderline and would have been soft sending offs. 

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

think we should stop trying to copy other sports by people wanting to introduce sin bin's, etc. Its ain't part of Football and neither should it be. The rules are simple and clear 

I disagree. The rules have been tinkered with and tweaked so much that refs are tying themselves in knots with decisions weak in weak out. The refs can't get it right so what chance do us fans have of following it. 

Once our rules are in order and we have a decent standard of refereeing, then we can stop looking at how other sports are doing things. 

[DeeCee]

1 hour ago, RoverDom said:

Not for me, the second challenge for both were borderline and would have been soft sending offs. 

I disagree. The rules have been tinkered with and tweaked so much that refs are tying themselves in knots with decisions weak in weak out. The refs can't get it right so what chance do us fans have of following it. 

Once our rules are in order and we have a decent standard of refereeing, then we can stop looking at how other sports are doing things. 

Young's 2nd wasn't a yellow? 🙄 this is 2023, you can get a red for "playfully" bouncing a ball off someone's head 🙄

[rigger]

I can't believe that someone thinks the rules of football are simple and clear. In my 60 years involvement with football the rules have become more complicated and subjective.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, RoverDom said:

Not for me, the second challenge for both were borderline and would have been soft sending offs. 

I disagree. The rules have been tinkered with and tweaked so much that refs are tying themselves in knots with decisions weak in weak out. The refs can't get it right so what chance do us fans have of following it. 

Once our rules are in order and we have a decent standard of refereeing, then we can stop looking at how other sports are doing things. 

Both challenges were booking and one was given and one not. 

Refs have to stick to their decisions and backed themselves. The ref at Ewood did and it was good to see. Linesman gave his decision and stuck with it. It was refreshing to see. 

VAR doesn't help Refs at PL at times either. 

[Upside Down]

Nah fuck this sin bin shit.

It works for rugby because the game is boring as fuck no matter how many players are on the pitch.

What the game needs is competent officials that can read the play and will let some things go. But that's nothing new, it's been like this for at least 35 years.

[rigger]

8 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

Nah fuck this sin bin shit.

It works for rugby because the game is boring as fuck no matter how many players are on the pitch.

What the game needs is competent officials that can read the play and will let some things go. But that's nothing new, it's been like this for at least 35 years.

So isn't it time to try a change ?

[chaddyrovers]

15 minutes ago, rigger said:

So isn't it time to try a change ?

Why? The ref bottled his decision so the sin bin will be another escape route for Refs not to make a decisions 

[Upside Down]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why? The ref bottled his decision so the sin bin will be another escape route for Refs not to make a decisions 

100%

[rigger]

13 hours ago, Upside Down said:

100%

If a ref gives someone a yellow card and they are sent to the sin bin, then the refs have made a decission. The sin bin is there so that people have ten minutes to decide if the infringement is worthy of upgrading to a red. The team of the player who has been sent to the sin bin, is being punished against the team that they have infringed against, not some random team later in the season.

Edited October 23, 2023 by rigger

[chaddyrovers]

47 minutes ago, rigger said:

If a ref gives someone a yellow card and they are sent to the sin bin, then the refs have made a decission. The sin bin is there so that people have ten minutes to decide if the infringement is worthy of upgrading to a red. The team of the player who has been sent to the sin bin, is being punished against the team that they have infringed against, not some random team later in the season.

That how Rugby works not Football. I watched the Liverpool and Everton game on Saturday and those decisions were simple to make and not difficult to make. You didn't need 10 mins to make those decisions. The ref bottled the Konate's second yellow cos it was at Anfield. Nothing else. Young rightly sent off for 2 yellow cards and Keane's handball was clear after the first replay. 

[philipl]

On 22/10/2023 at 16:45, speeeeeeedie said:

I thought the same. Once a player gets sent off the team with 10 plays with everyone behind the ball and tries not to concede. The game becomes boring. Liverpool got lucky with the penalty. It definitely was one, but I didn't see them scoring otherwise. 

Young's second booking was harsh. It was a mis timed tackle. However, I think most ref's would have booked a player for the tackle. Should the referee have given him some leeway as he'd already been booked? 

It's a fine line but I don't think Konate's second foul was a booking. He did put his arm out, but the Everton player wouldn't have got the ball. 

I can't stand the "technical foul" that he got booked for. They are a blight on the game. If you get beat play on. 

There are far too many sendings off. It's finite and really changes a game. The rules around cards were developed in another era. They need changing. Refine the criteria for reds and yellows? A sin bin? Another colour whereby that player has to leave, still gets a ban, but can be replaced so 11 are still playing. 

 

Young had kicked the ball away a couple of minutes before the second foul so he had had his lucky break not getting a second yellow.

[riverholmes]

On 22/10/2023 at 20:01, rigger said:

I can't believe that someone thinks the rules of football are simple and clear. In my 60 years involvement with football the rules have become more complicated and subjective.

A beauty of football is it's simplicity. The more we move away from that at the elite level, the more remote it gets from fans, I feel. 

I do feel that the commercialisation and profit in football is partly driving this. There's a vicious cycle, huge stakes and pressure, less tolerance of human judgment and error, and increasing tinkering with the rules and technology. I have a suspicion that some of this increased tinkering is intended to prime fans for bigger structural changes intended to benefit the few. Fans have come to accept constant changes that when the  expanded Champions' League or Super League come along, which clearly are damaging to the game, fans are meant to shrug.

We do want better refereeing and decision-making, but there will always be human error, if we want humans involved. The ploy of defenders putting their hands behind their backs when defending, to me, shows that football's big business now have footballers trying to relieve the referee of making decisions.

Edited October 24, 2023 by riverholmes

[wilsdenrover]

50 minutes ago, riverholmes said:

A beauty of football is it's simplicity. The more we move away from that at the elite level, the more remote it gets from fans, I feel. 

I do feel that the commercialisation and profit in football is partly driving this. There's a vicious cycle, huge stakes and pressure, less tolerance of human judgment and error, and increasing tinkering with the rules and technology. I have a suspicion that some of this increased tinkering is intended to prime fans for bigger structural changes intended to benefit the few. Fans have come to accept constant changes that when the  expanded Champions' League or Super League come along, which clearly are damaging to the game, fans are meant to shrug.

We do want better refereeing and decision-making, but there will always be human error, if we want humans involved. The ploy of defenders putting their hands behind their backs when defending, to me, shows that football's big business now have footballers trying to relieve the referee of making decisions.

I’d say the level of tolerance to human error is markedly different depending on whether that human is an official or a player/manager.

[oneandycrawford]

2 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

I’d say the level of tolerance to human error is markedly different depending on whether that human is an official or a player/manager.

Once saw a post-match interview with Peter Reid (I think he was manager of Sunderland at the time). He started by having a go at the referee who'd made a mistake that cost a goal. Then stopped, laughed and said something along the lines of - 'mind you I wish my defenders had only made one mistake in the game that cost a goal - not the 3 they actually made!!'

[wilsdenrover]

Bill Kenwright has died.

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67203234

Edited October 24, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[Ewood Ace]

Very sad news about Bill Kenwright a good man, who was in football for the right reasons.

You'd hope that there are some Everton 'fans' taking a look at themselves in the mirror tonight and feeling ashamed.

[Norbert Rassragr]

He made mistakes but he always came across like he really cared, and tried to build the club. 

[arbitro]

Dingles salvation?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/breaking-everton-points-deduction-premierleague-31277275

[lraC]

17 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Dingles salvation?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/breaking-everton-points-deduction-premierleague-31277275

Could be an interesting one, especially after the so called City investigation last year. That seemed to die a death, will this? 

[Upside Down]

I'm sure they will feel the Premier League's full wrath. 

Funny how City and West Ham never did.

[Displaced Rover]

17 hours ago, arbitro said:

Dingles salvation?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/breaking-everton-points-deduction-premierleague-31277275

Nah they're still knackered because they'll stick with arrogant old Kompany far too long. Damage will be done, regardless of what happens to Everton (spoiler - nothing will happen).

Edited October 26, 2023 by Displaced Rover