Premier League

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Fit the ethos, fit the style. Just nonsense management speak. Whatever happened to letting the manager decide how they want to play, regardless of delusions about how it should be played. The result of this is managers sticking to a style that doesnt suit the players at his disposal and getting the sack.

The only good thing about the Chicken Chokers is they don’t interfere in how we play. They do give the manager a free hand in style of play. That’s after they’ve chopped his other hand off financially.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

We don't have managers any more, we have head coaches whilst we have sporting director running the football departments whilst head coaches are just in charge of first team affairs. Managers have gone from the game and that old style role has gone from Football. 

Like I said, Sporting Director and owners will pick the head coach that fit what they want. 

Russell Martin was picked by Southampton cos they wanted to play that style. Would he have been my choice? no he wouldn't. But he delivered what they wanted which was promotion. This season, Martin will not adapt his footballing philosophy to get better results.  

Still doesnt explain WHY it makes sense for a director of football to be the one in charge of what style the manager/head coach has to play. Well, I dont think it does make sense.

32 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The only good thing about the Chicken Chokers is they don’t interfere in how we play. They do give the manager a free hand in style of play. That’s after they’ve chopped his other hand off financially.

True, a side effect to them not giving a shit is that they dont care how we play.

[chaddyrovers]

40 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Still doesnt explain WHY it makes sense for a director of football to be the one in charge of what style the manager/head coach has to play. Well, I dont think it does make sense.

I'm explained to yourself and you are more than acknowledge about how football clubs are run and the changing role of the manager to what is effective head coach role now 

I leave it there now

[roversfan99]

It explains the new roles. It doesnt explain WHY it is deemed to be a logical move to have the director of football dictating the tactical approach based on on how he would prefer to see the team play rather than leaving it to the manager/head coach to decide, after all its his neck on the block and hes best placed to decide how best to utilise his team.

End product. So many teams trying to play a style their players clearly arent suited to because the manager has no choice.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

It explains the new roles. It doesnt explain WHY it is deemed to be a logical move to have the director of football dictating the tactical approach based on on how he would prefer to see the team play rather than leaving it to the manager/head coach to decide, after all its his neck on the block and hes best placed to decide how best to utilise his team.

End product. So many teams trying to play a style their players clearly arent suited to because the manager has no choice.

And when it all goes tits up it’s the manager that gets sacked not the director of football. What a good idea.

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

And when it all goes tits up it’s the manager that gets sacked not the director of football. What a good idea.

Head coach is there to wins games. That's what he been appoint for 

[BRFC4EVA]

Russell Martin is a fraud, is a fraud, is a fraud, Russell Martin is a fraud, he's a Wanker  🎶 🎶

[roversfan99]

41 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Head coach is there to wins games. That's what he been appoint for 

But is dictated to on how to play.

[KentExile]

25 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But is dictated to on how to play.

In fairness, the head coach would be asked in his interview before he accepted the job if he can deliver "x brand of football" etc, and he will have replied that he could.

I do have some sympathy with managers/head coaches who are already in situ when a Director of Football is brought in by the club.

Edited Wednesday at 09:02 by KentExile

[Mattyblue]

So where is the line drawn to when a manager has strayed too far from the club defined ‘style of play’.

Presumably results dictate, as if a team suddenly started playing like a Dyche side but were winning plenty I doubt there’d be much of an issue…

Edited Wednesday at 09:02 by Mattyblue

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

My No1 question to Eustace in his interview last season would have been - “ Do you think you can avoid relegation ? “ The style of football wouldn’t have been an issue.

[Upside Down]

21 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

So where is the line drawn to when a manager has strayed too far from the club defined ‘style of play’.

Presumably results dictate, as if a team suddenly started playing like a Dyche side but were winning plenty I doubt there’d be much of an issue…

Didn't Southampton bin off a manager that was playing effective football for someone else who played the 'right way'?

[Mattyblue]

Birmingham definitely did…

[KentExile]

42 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

My No1 question to Eustace in his interview last season would have been - “ Do you think you can avoid relegation ? “ The style of football wouldn’t have been an issue.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/24122446.eustace-sends-clear-message-blackburn-style-play/

This would imply that it was mentioned, maybe not as a short term thing (as I am sure avoiding relegation was the priority), but certainly going forwards

 

Also, I am fairly surely most managers/head coaches (obviously there are some exceptions, but they are getting fewer in number, and tend to comprise of already established managers rather than those just starting out) would prefer to (try to) play an expansive style of football, as even if they fail (Kompany/Martin etc) they fail upwards into better paid, more high profile jobs, so it is not as though they are being forced, kicking and screaming into playing a certain style of football.

Edited Wednesday at 09:48 by KentExile

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

But is dictated to on how to play.

Wrong. As @KentExileexplained the director of football will pick a head coach who suits what the club philosophy and ethos whether its bringing through young players or playing a certain way or keeping a team. 

[Mattyblue]

What’s the Rovers style of play then? As I’m pretty sure JDT plays nothing like JE.

[KentExile]

11 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

What’s the Rovers style of play then? As I’m pretty sure JDT plays nothing like JE.

I would envisage that Eustace's & JDTs remit would be/have been something like

 

Produce/coach a team that is able to play out from the back and able to play expansive football

Increase the value of the current squad for future sales to contribute to profit & sustainability

Not get relegated

 

The head coach can then do whatever he wants as long as he stays within the previously agreed "Overton window"

 

[Mattyblue]

Bigger question obviously but why is the first one now mandatory anywhere in the game apart from in the top 4 of the PL? Just bizarre as what is it actually adding to lower league football?

[chaddyrovers]

12 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

What’s the Rovers style of play then? As I’m pretty sure JDT plays nothing like JE.

Rovers strategy changed when GB role changed(before he left) last January, then JDT left, Waggott appointed Eustace who was his choice, reported by Elliott Jackson

On Eustace style of play, has he said himself he is adaptable to each game but being defensively solid is one of key priorities. You know yourself we played good football at times but don't take the risks we did under JDT

[KentExile]

5 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Bigger question obviously but why is the first one now mandatory anywhere in the game apart from in the top 4 of the PL? Just bizarre as what is it actually adding to lower league football?

It produces players and coaches that can be sold to clubs higher up the ladder

Sadly, it is all about profit and sustainability (from the clubs perspective at least)

Edited Wednesday at 10:27 by KentExile

[Mattyblue]

I get how it’s happening/the mechanics of it and why managers feel like they have to play it, but why has this totally unsuited tactic for most players taken over the game in the first place? Because Pep can make it look good with world class players? Just really weird and shows the herd like mentality of the game.

Edited Wednesday at 10:52 by Mattyblue

[KentExile]

15 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I get how it’s happening/the mechanics of it and why managers feel like they have to play it, but why has this totally unsuited tactic for most players taken over the game in the first place? Because Pep can make it look good with world class players? Just really weird and shows the herd like mentality of the game.

The why is because of finances, nothing more.  Right through the 90s we heard the line trotted out by various individuals that "football is now a business", and that becomes more and more true with each passing year.

Clubs feel that having a long term director of football who steers the club in the same direction under a procession of vaguely similar head coaches to be more sustainable, and more profitable than employing managers who may want entirely different squads and players in different system.  Coupled with this, training players to play in this style means that they are more attractive to clubs higher up the ladder, so they can be sold at a profit and reinvested

Please note I am talking about "the model" here, not how basket case clubs operate.  If a club was to constantly change their director of football/head of football operations/whatever term they decide to use then they are also potentially throwing just as much money away as a club changing manager for someone with a different philosophy as happened in the past

Edited Wednesday at 11:09 by KentExile

[Mattyblue]

Like I said I get all that and how we are now here and why all levels of the game from five year olds up play this way .

My point is more a general musing as to why it this particular tactic that was to be the chosen one in the first place.

It’s boring, it makes the game less of a spectacle and is totally unsuited to most footballers. Like everything football tactics always evolve but let’s hope evolution comes quickly.

[KentExile]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Like I said I get all that and how we are now here and why all levels of the game from five year olds up play this way .

My point is more a general musing as to why it this particular tactic that was to be the chosen one in the first place.

It’s boring, it makes the game less of a spectacle and is totally unsuited to most footballers. Like everything football tactics always evolve but let’s hope evolution comes quickly.

money/finances is the why, not the how

[K-Hod]

I think it reached peak batsh1t in the summer, when Kompany got one of the biggest jobs in the world at Bayern, after suffering relegation with Burnley, because his team 'played the right way'.

Never mind that he smashed a huge transfer budget and failed in his objective of survival.....