Premier League

[chaddyrovers]

23 minutes ago, den said:

By and large, they don’t support them. They sit at home in front of the telly and wouldn’t ever  venture to the matches.

I accept that some fans are like you describe but I know some fans who are passionate and proud of their club, buy club merchandise and try to attend games when they can but cost of ticket, food/drink cost and then travel pushing the overall cost over £100 which is alot considering other non football factors. 

23 minutes ago, den said:

Youre a supporter Chaddy. You’re there at every opportunity and put thousands into Rovers. They don’t. 

thanks Den for those genuine words and I appreciated them

[K-Hod]

It was fair funny that United went with Eriksen and Casimero in midfield, who can’t run, against Bruno Guimares, who covered the most distance of any player in the PL last season. Lad must have thought it was his birthday….

[roversfan99]

Amidst the hilarious situation at United, a strange thing to say is that I dont think that anywhere near enough focus is put simply at the lack of quality. Obviously there are issues with work rate, effort, and then questions about the manager, issues around ownership etc but most of their players just arent very good.

Its unfathomable but take Forest, is it just bad form/tactics or would it be reasonable to say that Gibbs-White, Anderson, Murillo, Milenkovic, Aina, Sels and Wood for a start (maybe Elanga and/or Hudso Odoi) would all walk into the United side?

Ten Hag signed a load of players who might have done well in the Dutch league but just dont seem to be very good. Hasbeens like Casemiro and Eriksen, players like Ugarte, De Ligt etc who were seen as not good enough by big teams, and then domestic players and/or graduates like Rashford, Garnacho and Mainoo who have been hyped up to ridicilous levels at various points but just arent that good.

Fernandes is their best player and even he wouldnt get into the best teams, and flatters to deceive in the main at major tournaments.

[Cherry Blue]

50 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

It was fair funny that United went with Eriksen and Casimero in midfield, who can’t run, against Bruno Guimares, who covered the most distance of any player in the PL last season. Lad must have thought it was his birthday….

Don't understand why Amorim plays Erikson when he's not the player he was and doesn't have the legs, certainly not for 90 minutes. Not that I'm disappointed but continue in this form and they'll be relegated.

Club's too big to employ a manager that can't get the best out of players but with the likes of Rashford wanting out, Fernandes {suspended} tries too hard, Maguire thinks he has the ability but can't fit in with the weak team, they lack a Keane like leader. Amorim doesn't seem like he's the right chap for the job.

 

Edited December 31, 2024 by Cherry Blue

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Amidst the hilarious situation at United, a strange thing to say is that I dont think that anywhere near enough focus is put simply at the lack of quality. Obviously there are issues with work rate, effort, and then questions about the manager, issues around ownership etc but most of their players just arent very good.

Its unfathomable but take Forest, is it just bad form/tactics or would it be reasonable to say that Gibbs-White, Anderson, Murillo, Milenkovic, Aina, Sels and Wood for a start (maybe Elanga and/or Hudso Odoi) would all walk into the United side?

Ten Hag signed a load of players who might have done well in the Dutch league but just dont seem to be very good. Hasbeens like Casemiro and Eriksen, players like Ugarte, De Ligt etc who were seen as not good enough by big teams, and then domestic players and/or graduates like Rashford, Garnacho and Mainoo who have been hyped up to ridicilous levels at various points but just arent that good.

Fernandes is their best player and even he wouldnt get into the best teams, and flatters to deceive in the main at major tournaments.

You make so very good valid points. 

United lacked a proper transfer plan for years. I think the first 12 months of Ratcliffe's reign running Footballing operations of the club hasn't improve much including seeing him cutting staff from departments, cutting Christmas party for staff and bonus from £100 to £40 M&S voucher, then add he has cut funding to the Manchester United Foundation. 

Then add Ratcliffe and his people meeting different managers like Ten Hag, Frank and Mckenna, then suddenly deciding to stick with Ten Hag then sacked him a few moths afterwards. Lack of coherent plan again. Then add he chased Ashworth for months then sacked him within 6 months. 

For years, United have lacked a proper leadership at the top to have a proper transfer plan and even this summer, how many of those signings have improved them, then add sacking Ten Hag and appointing a new manager who wants to play a very different formation and tactics to previous squad, meaning you need to revamp the squad and I think there is more pain to come. 

What a mess. 

Looking at the squad, Alot of that squad I would want to sell and bring in players that fit my tactical plan. I would only keep Yoro, De Ligt, Dalot, Mazraoui, Ugarte, Mainoo, Fernandes, Mount, Hojlund, Garnacho, Diallo

You mentioned Forest, but Nuno has a tactical plan and the players understand what he wants but also any signings fit that tactical approach. 

[roversfan99]

34 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You make so very good valid points. 

United lacked a proper transfer plan for years. I think the first 12 months of Ratcliffe's reign running Footballing operations of the club hasn't improve much including seeing him cutting staff from departments, cutting Christmas party for staff and bonus from £100 to £40 M&S voucher, then add he has cut funding to the Manchester United Foundation. 

Then add Ratcliffe and his people meeting different managers like Ten Hag, Frank and Mckenna, then suddenly deciding to stick with Ten Hag then sacked him a few moths afterwards. Lack of coherent plan again. Then add he chased Ashworth for months then sacked him within 6 months. 

For years, United have lacked a proper leadership at the top to have a proper transfer plan and even this summer, how many of those signings have improved them, then add sacking Ten Hag and appointing a new manager who wants to play a very different formation and tactics to previous squad, meaning you need to revamp the squad and I think there is more pain to come. 

What a mess. 

Looking at the squad, Alot of that squad I would want to sell and bring in players that fit my tactical plan. I would only keep Yoro, De Ligt, Dalot, Mazraoui, Ugarte, Mainoo, Fernandes, Mount, Hojlund, Garnacho, Diallo

You mentioned Forest, but Nuno has a tactical plan and the players understand what he wants but also any signings fit that tactical approach. 

My point was about quality, the media puts it down to application etc but many of their players carry a reputation far exceeding their ability.

Even the players you mention. Mount is a waste of time. Garnacho had a bit of hype but in the main flatters to deceive. Mainoo is massively overrated. Dalot, not very good. Ugarte looks lost. De Ligt looks like a bug lump that Juve and Bayern didnt want.

Forest are a better organised and drilled team so naturally are getting more from their side. But equally, I bet if you asked someone to put a joint team together, most would mainly include United players.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

My point was about quality, the media puts it down to application etc but many of their players carry a reputation far exceeding their ability.

The players I named have quality but none are leaders and they need that. If you put Roy Keane with Rio and Vidic plus Van Der Sar in United team, the others wouldn't be so bad. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Even the players you mention. Mount is a waste of time. Garnacho had a bit of hype but in the main flatters to deceive. Mainoo is massively overrated. Dalot, not very good. Ugarte looks lost. De Ligt looks like a bug lump that Juve and Bayern didnt want.

Mount is struggling injury wise. Mainoo and Garnacho are young players but has talent. Dalot is good quality full back. Give Ugarte and De Ligt time to settle in but but are good quality players. 

 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Forest are a better organised and drilled team so naturally are getting more from their side. But equally, I bet if you asked someone to put a joint team together, most would mainly include United players.

Nono has a plan and signings fit that tactical plan. 

[roversfan99]

48 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The players I named have quality but none are leaders and they need that. If you put Roy Keane with Rio and Vidic plus Van Der Sar in United team, the others wouldn't be so bad. 

Mount is struggling injury wise. Mainoo and Garnacho are young players but has talent. Dalot is good quality full back. Give Ugarte and De Ligt time to settle in but but are good quality players. 

 

Nono has a plan and signings fit that tactical plan. 

How much of Ugarte and De Ligt have to seen to know that they are good quality players? They havent looked very good so far.

I dont doubt that Mainoo and Garnacho have some ability but they have been massively overhyped. The latter seems to have an application issue too.

As I said, I dont doubt that there are well documented issues surrounding tactics and potential attitude as well, compounding their hilarious woes, but the players individually are not as good as people seem to think.

Anyone would look good if you chucked in 4 top class leaders like you mention. Forest, Bournemouth, Fulham etc dont have Keane, Vidic, Ferdinand or Van Der Sar.

Edited December 31, 2024 by roversfan99

[chaddyrovers]

25 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

How much of Ugarte and De Ligt have to seen to know that they are good quality players? They havent looked very good so far.

I know enough thanks

25 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont doubt that Mainoo and Garnacho have some ability but they have been massively overhyped. The latter seems to have an application issue too.

overhyped not by us but they are in struggling side, if they were in Fergie teams we wouldn't be having this discussion

25 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

As I said, I dont doubt that there are well documented issues surrounding tactics and potential attitude as well, compounding their hilarious woes, but the players individually are not as good as people seem to think.

I would say there is well documented issues around the club for many years and a proper coherent plan and strategy. Ratcliffe and his people haven't improve this. 

They have over paid for many of the signings over the years whether it was Di Maria or Anthony or Casemiro  

25 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Anyone would look good if you chucked in 4 top class leaders like you mention. Forest, Bournemouth, Fulham etc dont have Keane, Vidic, Ferdinand or Van Der Sar.

Forest and Fulham both have quality players, tactical plan, transfers to fit that and players who are together and some leaders

Edited December 31, 2024 by chaddyrovers

[RoverDom]

It's hard to judge the quality of united players because playing for united seems to ruin players. Sancho is a prime example looked significantly better before and after united. 

If they signed a decent player he'd automatically be half as good the second he pulls on a united shirt. 

Something is rotten at the club - no matter the coach or the players they just can't get back to where they were and it's fantastic 

 

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I know enough thanks

overhyped not by us but they are in struggling side, if they were in Fergie teams we wouldn't be having this discussion

I would say there is well documented issues around the club for many years and a proper coherent plan and strategy. Ratcliffe and his people haven't improve this. 

They have over paid for many of the signings over the years whether it was Di Maria or Anthony or Casemiro  

Forest and Fulham both have quality players, tactical plan, transfers to fit that and players who are together and some leaders

Those players wouldnt be in Ferguson sides, definitely not for very long.

Dont doubt the other stuff but I also think their players just arent as good as people assume. De Ligt and Ugarte maybe are good examples, Im guessing youve seen little if nothing of them before but we just assume they are quality coming from big teams.

2 hours ago, RoverDom said:

It's hard to judge the quality of united players because playing for united seems to ruin players. Sancho is a prime example looked significantly better before and after united. 

If they signed a decent player he'd automatically be half as good the second he pulls on a united shirt. 

Something is rotten at the club - no matter the coach or the players they just can't get back to where they were and it's fantastic 

 

There does seem to be something rotten although I dont think Sancho is particularly good full stop. Slow and predictable.

[davulsukur]

17 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Amidst the hilarious situation at United, a strange thing to say is that I dont think that anywhere near enough focus is put simply at the lack of quality. Obviously there are issues with work rate, effort, and then questions about the manager, issues around ownership etc but most of their players just arent very good.

Its unfathomable but take Forest, is it just bad form/tactics or would it be reasonable to say that Gibbs-White, Anderson, Murillo, Milenkovic, Aina, Sels and Wood for a start (maybe Elanga and/or Hudso Odoi) would all walk into the United side?

Ten Hag signed a load of players who might have done well in the Dutch league but just dont seem to be very good. Hasbeens like Casemiro and Eriksen, players like Ugarte, De Ligt etc who were seen as not good enough by big teams, and then domestic players and/or graduates like Rashford, Garnacho and Mainoo who have been hyped up to ridicilous levels at various points but just arent that good.

Fernandes is their best player and even he wouldnt get into the best teams, and flatters to deceive in the main at major tournaments.

I don't think Fernandes is actually that good either tbh. Maybe he's downed tools or maybe he's struggling with crap players around him, i dunno. 

He's obviously not rubbish but I don't think he's anywhere near as good as he was. I don't watch a lot of Man Utd but I haven't seen him play well for a while now.

He's also hands down the worst captain in English football.

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Those players wouldnt be in Ferguson sides, definitely not for very long.

Ferguson wouldn't have allowed the club to waste so much money on players who aren't worth what they paid, lack of transfer plan, etc

They have lacked a coherent plan for years transfer wise and still do now. You just look at the amount of fees spent on average players like Di Maria, Martial, Anthony, etc. 

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Dont doubt the other stuff but I also think their players just arent as good as people assume. De Ligt and Ugarte maybe are good examples, Im guessing youve seen little if nothing of them before but we just assume they are quality coming from big teams.

Some of players signed in the last 10 years are average players but the other stuff is massively important at clubs like a proper footballing structure, appointing a Director of Football, proper scouting structure, making sure the youth development structure, etc. All they have lacked at the club since Fergie. They had Ralf Rangnick at the club who would be perfect DoF for them and he told them the truth about what they needed to do and who they should have signed. If they have signed the players he recommend like Morata, Enzo Fernandes, Luis Diaz, etc, They would have been much better a team but also have a proper coherent plan in place. 

For your last point, you are wrong here to assume anything. 

Edited Wednesday at 11:51 by chaddyrovers

[sharpysharps86]

20 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Amidst the hilarious situation at United, a strange thing to say is that I dont think that anywhere near enough focus is put simply at the lack of quality. Obviously there are issues with work rate, effort, and then questions about the manager, issues around ownership etc but most of their players just arent very good.

Its unfathomable but take Forest, is it just bad form/tactics or would it be reasonable to say that Gibbs-White, Anderson, Murillo, Milenkovic, Aina, Sels and Wood for a start (maybe Elanga and/or Hudso Odoi) would all walk into the United side?

Ten Hag signed a load of players who might have done well in the Dutch league but just dont seem to be very good. Hasbeens like Casemiro and Eriksen, players like Ugarte, De Ligt etc who were seen as not good enough by big teams, and then domestic players and/or graduates like Rashford, Garnacho and Mainoo who have been hyped up to ridicilous levels at various points but just arent that good.

Fernandes is their best player and even he wouldnt get into the best teams, and flatters to deceive in the main at major tournaments.

100% agree with all of that. I do feel a bit sorry for Eriksen, but he really should've stayed at Brentford.

United are paying a hefty price for spending a ton of cash without actually strengthening any areas of the team. They have accumulated so many expensive players on big wages, and they'll struggle to shift a lot of them.

Every season that passes they seem to regress further, and Jim Radcliffe seems more interested in slashing the pay and bonuses of the everyday staff that work for the club.

Now they have a head coach who actually is probably very good given he was beating Man City 4-1 in the Champions League not that long ago, but he's come in during the season and insisting on the system he had at Sporting with a group of players who simply can't play it and just generally aren't good enough. What they needed was an unglamorous steady hand to see them through the season and then reset in the summer....someone like I dunno, David Moyes? 😂...but now they look destined for a relegation fight.

That club is rotten to the core and they deserve to go down.

 

[Norbert Rassragr]

Can you imagine if they did go down. None of the players would have wage reduction clauses and many would not have the attitude and fortitude for a long season of getting promoted. They'd be stuck with many big egos in bigger wages sulking about.

[Upside Down]

4 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Can you imagine if they did go down. None of the players would have wage reduction clauses and many would not have the attitude and fortitude for a long season of getting promoted. They'd be stuck with many big egos in bigger wages sulking about.

That just sounds absolutely lovely.

 

[Blow-in]

7 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Can you imagine if they did go down. None of the players would have wage reduction clauses and many would not have the attitude and fortitude for a long season of getting promoted. They'd be stuck with many big egos in bigger wages sulking about.

I think going down might be the best thing for them. There are so many egos in that team that would probably leave and take paycuts just to avoid the championship.

They would bounce back with the decks cleared and their huge turnover would get them set up nicely.

 

 

[roverandout]

Man utd would take years to go back up if they were relegated 

[DeeCee]

9 hours ago, roverandout said:

Man utd would take years to go back up if they were relegated 

Unfortunately with their budget they'd be straight back up as league champions 😞

[rigger]

On 02/01/2025 at 00:36, roverandout said:

Man utd would take years to go back up if they were relegated 

What are you basing that statement on ?

[Ossydave]

On 02/01/2025 at 00:36, roverandout said:

Man utd would take years to go back up if they were relegated 

Really? 

I think it would actually do them the world of good to have a hard reset and ship out all the players who don't even want to be there.

 

 

[roverandout]

Based on the fact they're completely broken. There's a disease going through that club and the players have given up the ghost.  The championship will be beneath them

[DeeCee]

Just heard this: 

"I was sat there and a heard a load of hissing and squealing, I went outside and saw that there was a cat and a group of MUFC players were playing football with it!

I was horrified.

I was just about to call the RSPCA but then the cat went 1 nil up"

😁

Edited yesterday at 17:37 by DeeCee

[speeeeeeedie]

6 hours ago, roverandout said:

Based on the fact they're completely broken. There's a disease going through that club and the players have given up the ghost.  The championship will be beneath them

The signs have been there for years. Ultimately, the combination of poor owners and the impossible task of replacing Alex Ferguson has caused their current mess. 

The players haven't given up, they aren't good enough and as most of them were signed seemingly without any thought toward a defined style of play the current hodgepodge look lost. 

ten Hag did his best work when he played counter attacking football so signed players who fit that style. However, he didn't look like he was confident enough in his convictions to stick with it due to it not being "the Manchester United Way". 

Amorim is the opposite. He likes 3-4-3 and is sticking to it. Fair play to him for that stance, but he doesn't have the players to do it so unless he gets 3 or 4 transfer windows to completely change personnel he will struggle. 

I'd laugh for a week if they went down but I don't think it will happen. Thanks to Southampton's Russell Martin experiment they are going back down. Leicester look doomed as well leaving 1 spot left. Are Man U worse than Wolves, Ipswich, or Everton? 

They are 1 point below West Ham though, who look awful every time I see them. 

[onlyonejackwalker]

It's all about recruitment.

Mourinho told everyone years ago that the likes of Pogba, Shaw, Martial, Lingard, Rashford, etc weren't fit to wear the shirt. 

Compare to proper players like Bruce, Ince, Strachan, Robson, Hughes, or Vidic, Berg, Keane, Scholes, Cantona, etc. 

Some of the latest players they have sourced for massive money is ridiculous.

Buy badly, buy twice. It takes years and years to recover if you get it wrong.