Premier League

[USABlue]

  On 18/09/2024 at 07:17, Upside Down said:

I don't think you quite grasp how physically demanding the modern game is.

I don't begrudge the players getting paid good money for what they do. Unlike investment bankers or scumbag landlords football players actually have to work for a living.

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WORK?  I would trade them for my 50 years of working.

[ABBEY]

you n me both brother you n me both

[Blow-in]

The problem is, as soon as the league organiser a break the clubs all head off to America and Dubai for promotions and friendlies there is no rest.

[Admiral Nelsen]

  On 18/09/2024 at 07:50, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If you look back to when I first started watching there were lots players at Rovers, and other clubs, who were playing 40,41 and 42 out of 42 games. You don’t see that today. The only conclusion I can draw from that is the modern game is more demanding on the bodies of players. The more games, the greater the demand on the body, the more injuries.

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It's the nature of the injuries too. All you need to do is look back at a game from the 70s or 80s (let alone before then) and compare the speed and athleticism. Like a totally different sport.

I watch a lot of rugby league and it's the same there too. Injuries once upon a time were the consequences of hard collisions or a tackle going wrong. Muscle injuries are far more prevalent now, and at least one or two season ending ligament injuries are the price of doing business. The number of games has already been massively reduced over the years but there are calls there to reduce them even further. Midweek games are already a thing of the past in all but the most extreme circumstances. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

  On 18/09/2024 at 11:56, Blow-in said:

The problem is, as soon as the league organiser a break the clubs all head off to America and Dubai for promotions and friendlies there is no rest.

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That's the frustration. I get where the players are coming from entirely but you just know that any reduction in games is going to be at the expense of domestic competitions first and foremost. Anything which stops the top clubs getting even richer will be resisted. 

[speeeeeeedie]

  On 18/09/2024 at 10:11, USABlue said:

WORK?  I would trade them for my 50 years of working.

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Millionaire footballers are an easy target precisely because they are millionaires who play football for a living. 

Rather than wholly blame the players whose physical capabilities have limits why not look at leagues, broadcasters, and sponsors who are trying to eek out as much cash as possible from playing more matches. 

 

[rigger]

  On 18/09/2024 at 15:58, speeeeeeedie said:

Millionaire footballers are an easy target precisely because they are millionaires who play football for a living. 

Rather than wholly blame the players whose physical capabilities have limits why not look at leagues, broadcasters, and sponsors who are trying to eek out as much cash as possible from playing more matches. 

 

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 They are easy targets because they are moaning about being millionaire footballers.

[K-Hod]

  On 18/09/2024 at 16:08, rigger said:

 They are easy targets because they are moaning about being millionaire footballers.

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They’re moaning about having too many matches and picking up more injuries.

They are aware, like everyone else, that they are well paid. They’re just concerned for their own physical wellbeing.

Remember that one bad injury could end their career.

[speeeeeeedie]

  On 18/09/2024 at 16:08, rigger said:

 They are easy targets because they are moaning about being millionaire footballers.

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They aren't moaning about being millionaire footballers, they are moaning that the physical demands being placed upon them are burdensome and unlikely to let up. Being a millionaire and worrying about getting injured aren't mutually exclusive. 

 

[rigger]

  On 18/09/2024 at 17:35, K-Hod said:

They’re moaning about having too many matches and picking up more injuries.

They are aware, like everyone else, that they are well paid. They’re just concerned for their own physical wellbeing.

Remember that one bad injury could end their career.

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Does one bad injury not count for everyone. I have worked with many people who have had one bad injury, and have had to give up their career. None of them were paid millions.

[K-Hod]

  On 18/09/2024 at 17:53, rigger said:

Does one bad injury not count for everyone. I have worked with many people who have had one bad injury, and have had to give up their career. None of them were paid millions.

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Glad you made that point!

People are just triggered by their wages and think that means they can be flogged and risk injury to play more matches. If they’re playing too many games and risking injury as such, their wages are irrelevant.
 

[rigger]

  On 18/09/2024 at 18:05, K-Hod said:

Glad you made that point!

People are just triggered by their wages and think that means they can be flogged and risk injury to play more matches. If they’re playing too many games and risking injury as such, their wages are irrelevant.
 

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We are never going to agree, as far as I am concerned this is end of conversation.

[speeeeeeedie]

 

  On 18/09/2024 at 18:05, K-Hod said:

Glad you made that point!

People are just triggered by their wages and think that means they can be flogged and risk injury to play more matches. If they’re playing too many games and risking injury as such, their wages are irrelevant.
 

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You and I are singing from the same hymn sheet here. The argument against the complaints seems to be solely that footballers get paid well so screw them. 

It reminds me of this scene from There's Something about Mary; YouTube: There's Something about Mary - furniture moving

Plenty of us can kick a ball but we can't/couldn't play to the requisite standard required to be a Premier League footballer, hence the ones that can get well rewarded for it. There is a scarcity of resources at the top end of any industry, never mind football. Those people who can perform at the highest level get the rewards that come with it.

The same argument comes around yearly in the NFL too. Those lads really do put their body on the line, yet when a player pipes up that the game is dangerous the usual mob descends upon them telling them to shut up and play.

Edited September 18, 2024 by speeeeeeedie

[Mike E]

The one bad injury argument is nonsense imo. One bad injury away from what? Working a normal job like the rest of us?

[Forever Blue]

The PL players moaning earn more in a year than most of us will earn in a lifetime. They’ll be fine if they get a bit of knee knock in their late 20s. 

[speeeeeeedie]

For those proving the point that @K-Hod and I are making, would you apportion any culpability to clubs, governing bodies, sponsors, and broadcasters who want to extract all the extra revenue they can?

Or is it just greedy footballers being soft? 

[Silas]

  On 18/09/2024 at 18:13, speeeeeeedie said:

. The argument against the complaints seems to be solely that footballers get paid well so screw them

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I'll give you a different argument. 

I pay a shedload for all the TV subscriptions to watch the matches that make them so well paid.

I want value for my money, I want to be entertained as regular as often.

All the English teams in the CL have massive squads, with strength and quality running deep.

Just rotate more, let those overpaid reserves get a crack more often.

But they won't, because they have to win the competition. What 'City' are saying is- we want to win every competition via as few games as possible!

Course they do. Minimum effort, maximum reward. And the less games, statistically more chance of them succeeding, as less abnormal variance (sending offs, dodgy penalties etc). Less variance means the best team will conquer more, and they're the best team.

But I (and I am millions of viewers) want them to put more shows on, entertain me more. 🤷🏻‍♂️

If you're deperate to protect the players, put a limit on mins played a week. Force them to rotate. Would probably help even the playing field tbh. Make it all more competitive. 

But don't demonise the viewers for thinking they're being a bit whiney about the schedule,  when we can all go to their squad list and compile 2 full strong 11's with change left over. It's gaslighting. 

[Hasta]

As above.

If you don’t want to compete in the League cup, then pull out before the first draw.

But don’t complain that it still has a European spot attached to it and try and get that moved elsewhere, which is what would happen. 

[DaveyB]

  On 18/09/2024 at 17:35, K-Hod said:

They’re moaning about having too many matches and picking up more injuries.

They are aware, like everyone else, that they are well paid. They’re just concerned for their own physical wellbeing.

Remember that one bad injury could end their career.

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I wonder if they would be willing then to take a 15% pay cut - surely less games should equal less wages, no. 
Plus, if the clubs were spending less on player wages then maybe they wouldn’t feel the need to go chasing those lucrative overseas friendlies quite as often 

I suspect deep down we all know the answer to that question though

[Mike E]

Completely agree with @Hasta above.

Teams that whinge about the number of games are free to pull out of the competitions if they want.

In fact, I’d like someone with guts in the FA or PL or even EFL to publicly say exactly that.

[roversfan99]

The thing is, the additional games that tend to cause complaints are ones that genuinely do not have to happen, so they have a point. The Nations League, these new plans for an expanded Club World Cup and expanding the size of the Champions League. They have a point.

The usual lines tend to be trotted out, ungrateful overpaid mercenaries, I work x hours a week, get a real job, pull out of competitions etc. But it is statistically proven that an ever increasing number of games leads to far more injuries. Its not a case of that they cant be arsed, their bodies are breaking down because of it. I dont get why we would want more games featuring rotated teams or competitions with numerous absentees, there is no need aside from money to keep adding these extra fixtures to the calendar.

The cost of TV subscriptions is far too high, that should come down, it shouldnt be lets add more games to give more value with rotated teams what we will likely see.

[Silas]

Appreciate Rodri is talking forwards, but by the 'title decider' Sunday it will be 6 weeks since City's season start (Charity Shield).

They've played 6 matches. By minutes on pitch here's a list of their players that have played 4 games or fewer:

Silva, Kovacic, Doku, Savinho, Grealish, Gundogan, Rodri, Stones, Walker and Foden.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-city/leistungsdaten/verein/281

Cry me a river....regardless of internationals.

That 'team' has played the equivalent of 4 matches in a month and a half. 

[Hasta]

  On 18/09/2024 at 22:18, roversfan99 said:

The thing is, the additional games that tend to cause complaints are ones that genuinely do not have to happen, so they have a point. The Nations League, these new plans for an expanded Club World Cup and expanding the size of the Champions League. They have a point.

The usual lines tend to be trotted out, ungrateful overpaid mercenaries, I work x hours a week, get a real job, pull out of competitions etc. But it is statistically proven that an ever increasing number of games leads to far more injuries. Its not a case of that they cant be arsed, their bodies are breaking down because of it. I dont get why we would want more games featuring rotated teams or competitions with numerous absentees, there is no need aside from money to keep adding these extra fixtures to the calendar.

The cost of TV subscriptions is far too high, that should come down, it shouldnt be lets add more games to give more value with rotated teams what we will likely see.

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But it's not the champions league or club world cup the clubs would want cutting as that makes them money. It will be shrinking the domestic leagues and cancelling cup competitions. 

The number of domestic games now is surely far less then ever, with  no league or fa cup replays. The added games are all European. But you don't hear teams specifically blame European competition. Some players might, but once it becomes obvious those are the games that pay most to inflate their salaries, they'll want the games against lower league teams gone. 

The big clubs would absolutely love a 16 team premier league with only 2 relegation spots. Less games but less chance of going down and losing access to the honey pot

 

Edited September 18, 2024 by Hasta

[roversfan99]

  On 18/09/2024 at 23:24, Hasta said:

But it's not the champions league or club world cup the clubs would want cutting as that makes them money. It will be shrinking the domestic leagues and cancelling cup competitions. 

The number of domestic games now is surely far less then ever, with  no league or fa cup replays. The added games are all European. But you don't hear teams specifically blame European competition. Some players might, but once it becomes obvious those are the games that pay most to inflate their salaries, they'll want the games against lower league teams gone. 

The big clubs would absolutely love a 16 team premier league with only 2 relegation spots. Less games but less chance of going down and losing access to the honey pot

 

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Ive not seen anyone call for a shrunken PL or removing domestic cup competitions. Here it seems that Rodri is answering questions directly as a result of discussions about the expanded Champions League and Club World Cup.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2024/sep/17/rodri-players-close-to-striking-volume-games-manchester-city

De Bruyne has also come out before criticising the nations league.

[Hasta]

  On 19/09/2024 at 06:37, roversfan99 said:

Ive not seen anyone call for a shrunken PL or removing domestic cup competitions. Here it seems that Rodri is answering questions directly as a result of discussions about the expanded Champions League and Club World Cup.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2024/sep/17/rodri-players-close-to-striking-volume-games-manchester-city

De Bruyne has also come out before criticising the nations league.

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I said initially it would be the clubs. It's already happening.

The players won't be calling for it yet but secretly the top clubs will certainly prefer less cups and league games. The champions League is now the European Super league in all but name.

A quick google reveals Pep already called for the Carabao Cup to be scrapped. 

Not sure how much truth here, but here is a report from 4 years ago claiming Liverpool and Man United are behind proposals to reduce league size to 18 teams.

Given a choice between Champions League or Carabao Cup ties, financially of course they would rather ditch the cup and play more Champions League games. Once they make it clear to their players that more money is available for them if they play European football rather than League Cup football, the players would fall into line. 

As for the Nationals League, I'd completely abolish it if we are abolishing all games which aren't Euro / World Cup qualifiers. But if we are having international breaks with 2 friendlies, as we did previously, I much prefer it over those.

 

Edited September 19, 2024 by Hasta