v Rotherham (a) - 12/08/2023

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

  On 14/08/2023 at 11:53, sympatheticclaret said:

I know professional footballers aren't exactly renowned for intellect, with many exceptions of course ... but Fred Onyedinma will take some beating. The Referees representatives tour the Clubs during pre-season explaining the new interpretations, and things they've been asked to tighten up on. This year they include minimising time-wasting, adding extra time properly, excessive celebrations and calling for Ref's to " card " opposing players ...

So within 3 minutes, he scores, gets booked for excessive celebrations, and less than a minute from the restart, get's a second Yellow for brandishing an imaginary card at Bobby Madeley ! Red card, his side lose a two goal lead, a one match ban ( at least ) and a fine of a weeks wages, I suspect ... 

He's 26, he's played over 300 EFL games so what he was thinking, God knows !! Not that I'm expecting you lads to have any sympathy for him, of course  ... 😉 

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Your first sentence said it all.

[tomphil]

  On 14/08/2023 at 11:53, sympatheticclaret said:

I know professional footballers aren't exactly renowned for intellect, with many exceptions of course ... but Fred Onyedinma will take some beating. The Referees representatives tour the Clubs during pre-season explaining the new interpretations, and things they've been asked to tighten up on. This year they include minimising time-wasting, adding extra time properly, excessive celebrations and calling for Ref's to " card " opposing players ...

So within 3 minutes, he scores, gets booked for excessive celebrations, and less than a minute from the restart, get's a second Yellow for brandishing an imaginary card at Bobby Madeley ! Red card, his side lose a two goal lead, a one match ban ( at least ) and a fine of a weeks wages, I suspect ... 

He's 26, he's played over 300 EFL games so what he was thinking, God knows !! Not that I'm expecting you lads to have any sympathy for him, of course  ... 😉 

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Some of them just don't listen to anything i think that is evident.

[philipl]

  On 14/08/2023 at 09:58, LeftWinger said:

Admittedly, I've not seen it from behind the goal, but from the main camera angle I didn't think it was his fault. 

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Not his fault but zero reflex reaction.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

  On 14/08/2023 at 12:09, philipl said:

Not his fault but zero reflex reaction.

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It's interesting - Although he couldn't be blamed for the first goal, I had absoloutely zero confidence of him saving it/putting the striker off.  

If that had been Friedel for example, you would be  half confident he'd still save it. 

That's  when you know your keeper is a good one - the expectation  that they  will pull off saves that keep you in a game.  

Pears doesn't seem remotely capable of that.  The new keeper might... 

 

[BigBar]

Pears is alright for me. Couldn't do anything about either imo. Looking to point to him for blame is clutching. Sammie teed it up perfectly for the first and he buried it and the second was poor defending and a bullet header into the top corner. If it's not Pears in goals there isn't even a discussion on it.

[rigger]

  On 14/08/2023 at 14:20, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

It's interesting - Although he couldn't be blamed for the first goal, I had absoloutely zero confidence of him saving it/putting the striker off.  

If that had been Friedel for example, you would be  half confident he'd still save it. 

That's  when you know your keeper is a good one - the expectation  that they  will pull off saves that keep you in a game.  

Pears doesn't seem remotely capable of that.  The new keeper might... 

 

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During the warm up at Rotherham, it was good to see Wahlstedt jump over the wall to have selfies with some young Rovers fans.

[Mike E]

  On 14/08/2023 at 17:57, rigger said:

During the warm up at Rotherham, it was good to see Wahlstedt jump over the wall to have selfies with some young Rovers fans.

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Wahlstedt is giving me the same ‘cult status’ vibes I get from Szmodics. I feel like he’ll be a good player, but also have a personality to match.

Can’t put my finger on why I feel that way. I didn’t even get that from Kaminski, whom we were able to sign only because he booted his own defender in the bollocks.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

  On 14/08/2023 at 17:04, BigBar said:

Pears is alright for me. Couldn't do anything about either imo. Looking to point to him for blame is clutching. Sammie teed it up perfectly for the first and he buried it and the second was poor defending and a bullet header into the top corner. If it's not Pears in goals there isn't even a discussion on it.

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Think you're missing the point with the post.  He wasn't at fault for the first - he's competent ..but he rarely seems to pull off a save that keeps you in a game - like the better keepers do.  

 

[M_B]

If Pears is going to get the blame, at least wait until he's actually done something wrong, then he can rightly be criticised. 

 

[simongarnerisgod]

  On 14/08/2023 at 18:07, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Think you're missing the point with the post.  He wasn't at fault for the first - he's competent ..but he rarely seems to pull off a save that keeps you in a game - like the better keepers do.  

 

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if you want keepers in that class,they cost a fortune,don`t play in the championship and we can`t afford one,leave pears alone,since his  debacle at wigan he`s reinvented himself,fair play to the lad,we`ll see who has the no 1 in the coming months,we hav`nt spend nearly a million quid for a keeper to sit on the bench,bring on the battle

[M_B]

  On 14/08/2023 at 18:07, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Think you're missing the point with the post.  He wasn't at fault for the first - he's competent ..but he rarely seems to pull off a save that keeps you in a game - like the better keepers do.  

 

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He pulled off a fantastic save on Saturday in a one on one to keep it at 0-0, the ref gave a goal kick but it was clearly saved. 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

  On 14/08/2023 at 18:56, simongarnerisgod said:

if you want keepers in that class,they cost a fortune,don`t play in the championship and we can`t afford one,leave pears alone,since his  debacle at wigan he`s reinvented himself,fair play to the lad,we`ll see who has the no 1 in the coming months,we hav`nt spend nearly a million quid for a keeper to sit on the bench,bring on the battle

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Ironically, the last keeper we had that could do that was Raya.

Back then, he might also give a pen away a minute later though!  

[BigBar]

  On 14/08/2023 at 18:07, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Think you're missing the point with the post.  He wasn't at fault for the first - he's competent ..but he rarely seems to pull off a save that keeps you in a game - like the better keepers do.  

 

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Missing the point? The point being discussed was the goals we conceded against Rotherham on Saturday. I added to that conversation. No one was discussing game saving saves l, I think you are missing the point on this occasion. Completely different point you made. 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

  On 14/08/2023 at 19:44, BigBar said:

Missing the point? The point being discussed was the goals we conceded against Rotherham on Saturday. I added to that conversation. No one was discussing game saving saves l, I think you are missing the point on this occasion. Completely different point you made. 

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Apologies - your post was under mine - thought it was in reply👍

[BigBar]

  On 14/08/2023 at 19:51, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Apologies - your post was under mine - thought it was in reply👍

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All good my man. Happy to clarify...I do agree Pears in competent, if be happy if he just kept going about his business and made zero headlines. The addition of Leo makes it very interesting.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

  On 14/08/2023 at 19:55, BigBar said:

All good my man. Happy to clarify...I do agree Pears in competent, if be happy if he just kept going about his business and made zero headlines. The addition of Leo makes it very interesting.

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Yup. High hopes for the new lad. 

 

[Hasta]

Currently thousands of Rotherham fans watching the Man U - Wolves game are screaming at the telly “How come Varane hasn’t been booked for that?”

[Upside Down]

  On 14/08/2023 at 11:53, sympatheticclaret said:

I know professional footballers aren't exactly renowned for intellect, with many exceptions of course ... but Fred Onyedinma will take some beating. The Referees representatives tour the Clubs during pre-season explaining the new interpretations, and things they've been asked to tighten up on. This year they include minimising time-wasting, adding extra time properly, excessive celebrations and calling for Ref's to " card " opposing players ...

So within 3 minutes, he scores, gets booked for excessive celebrations, and less than a minute from the restart, get's a second Yellow for brandishing an imaginary card at Bobby Madeley ! Red card, his side lose a two goal lead, a one match ban ( at least ) and a fine of a weeks wages, I suspect ... 

He's 26, he's played over 300 EFL games so what he was thinking, God knows !! Not that I'm expecting you lads to have any sympathy for him, of course  ... 😉 

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Brandishing an imaginary card to the ref should be a straight red.

[bluebruce]

  On 14/08/2023 at 18:56, simongarnerisgod said:

if you want keepers in that class,they cost a fortune,don`t play in the championship and we can`t afford one,leave pears alone,since his  debacle at wigan he`s reinvented himself,fair play to the lad,we`ll see who has the no 1 in the coming months,we hav`nt spend nearly a million quid for a keeper to sit on the bench,bring on the battle

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  On 14/08/2023 at 19:30, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Ironically, the last keeper we had that could do that was Raya.

Back then, he might also give a pen away a minute later though!  

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Kaminski did it plenty of times.

[bluebruce]

  On 14/08/2023 at 20:37, Hasta said:

Currently thousands of Rotherham fans watching the Man U - Wolves game are screaming at the telly “How come Varane hasn’t been booked for that?”

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The simple answer is: he plays for Man U. Always been the way.

[USABlue]

  On 12/08/2023 at 20:10, Exiled_Rover said:

In hindsight, yes, but it takes a brave 19 year old in his second start to grab the ball out of the hands of one of the most senior players.

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For some reason I think this kid would have relushed it AND put it away.  We will never know for sure.

[Hasta]

  On 14/08/2023 at 21:57, Upside Down said:

Brandishing an imaginary card to the ref should be a straight red.

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What about verbally saying to the ref "That should be a booking".

What about saying anything to the ref "That should be a foul" or "That should be a our throw".

If the football authorities were officiating cricket then you for an lbw appeal you would have to turn around and say "Excuse me Mr Umpire but could I have your opinion on whether that was going to hit the stumps or not"

If there's any aggression towards the referee then it should be a card. Any crowding around the referee it should be a card. But a simple gesture sat on the floor from 6 feet away to say "That should be a card" should not be a yellow. It certainly should not be a straight red.

If it's all about setting an impression I'd be booking people for spitting and and clearing their nose on the pitch long before waving a card.

BTW, in the context of the game it probably should have been a card. As it wasn't, it told us you can foul a man who is breaking past you towards the edge of your own box and get away with it, but kick the ball away 3 feet, wave a card or celebrate a goal and in the book you go.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Hasta

[Hasta]

  On 15/08/2023 at 02:59, USABlue said:

For some reason I think this kid would have relushed it AND put it away.  We will never know for sure.

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He missed one in the pre-season games hence why he probably was taken off them.

[rigger]

  On 15/08/2023 at 07:39, Hasta said:

What about verbally saying to the ref "That should be a booking".

What about saying anything to the ref "That should be a foul" or "That should be a our throw".

If the football authorities were officiating cricket then you for an lbw appeal you would have to turn around and say "Excuse me Mr Umpire but could I have your opinion on whether that was going to hit the stumps or not"

If there's any aggression towards the referee then it should be a card. Any crowding around the referee it should be a card. But a simple gesture sat on the floor from 6 feet away to say "That should be a card" should not be a yellow. It certainly should not be a straight red.

If it's all about setting an impression I'd be booking people for spitting and and clearing their nose on the pitch long before waving a card.

BTW, in the context of the game it probably should have been a card. As it wasn't, it told us you can foul a man who is breaking past you towards the edge of your own box and get away with it, but kick the ball away 3 feet, wave a card or celebrate a goal and in the book you go.

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But holding up a pretend card, with no reaction from the ref, is a signal to the crowd and the assessors that the ref has lost control. If a player says something to the ref, it is between the two of them, and gives the ref the choice of having a quiet word, or booking the player. The new rule about booking a player who waves an imaginary card, has been explained to these players. I realise some players are thick, but I don't think it will be long before waving cards is a thing of the past, if refs are consistant with their punishment.

[Hasta]

  On 15/08/2023 at 10:24, rigger said:

But holding up a pretend card, with no reaction from the ref, is a signal to the crowd and the assessors that the ref has lost control.

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No it's not.  It shows the player thinks it's a card and the ref disagrees (or agrees). I certainly don't look at it and think the ref has lost control depending on whether he gives a card or not.

Now if the players start shouting at the ref,  crowding the ref, or barging him, or forcing him to take a step back then that is different. Book them all day, even send them off.  But  for card waving where do you stop. If a player gets barged over in the box and a player turns round with his arms out an appeals for a penalty that's not between the two of them. If the ref then gives the penalty has he lost control?

What if a player thinks it's a corner, appeals and starts taking the ball towards the corner flag? 

I get it's the now the rule, refs have to enforce it and players will stop doing it and all that. But I really see card waving on it's own as very low down the issues with the game. It's one of the least examples of disrespect towards officials.

I'd rather referees were instructed / advised to get things under control that were not in line with the rules or dangerous than a lad sat on the floor laughing waving a card. For example, there have already been two instances this season where I have seen where a defender has barged a striker out of the way to let it go for a goal kick and the striker has collided with the advertisement board. Anywhere else on the pitch then it's a foul. In this case it's even dangerous as the player falling could bang their head on the boards surrounding. And yet it's ignored.

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Hasta