Venky’s v Indian Government (a) - 25/3/2025 - Perennially Re-Arranged Challenge Match

[den]

I’ll stick my neck out here. Others might have said what I’m going to do but I don’t remember it,

While I hate what Venkys have done - and what they’re still doing, I’m certainly not convinced that there are buyers out there with the funds to improve the situation as it stands. Could things be worse than they are now? Yes they could but please don’t think for one minute that I’m saying they should stay as our owners. I don’t want them here any more than anyone else. It’s difficult to relish a future under owners who can commit no funds whatsoever though.

[Mattyblue]

I would say there is in the Championship, one good season away from the promised land will always attract interest.

(Doesn’t mean some other nefarious set of chancers wouldn’t come along, but there would undoubtedly be interest and we could get lucky).

Edited November 18, 2024 by Mattyblue

[Paul Mellelieu]

On 16/11/2024 at 13:52, Blue blood said:

I'm no economist but I'm fairly sure that the loss of over 12k regular fans might have had an impact on local businesses and the like. I dare say Swag's cost cutting measures haven't helped us boost the local economy either. 

You're no economist.

[Paul Mellelieu]

On 17/11/2024 at 09:20, tomphil said:

We've been through all this ad nauseam and its been pointed out before as long as the club exists and is trading and playing football even if its in admin then the majority will remain employed.

Only in the event of a slash and burn policy would that change.

If the club tumbled down the leagues through lack of investment which is a real possibility then jobs will be lost anyway, even one relegation will see job loses.

So we are always in that ballpark anyway it's probably a question of when not if because of the financial trajectory we are on. A large bulk of those 200 plus on the payroll will be matchday staff like stewards etc.

Clubs are over stocked with kids standing around in orange tops with their hands in their pockets anyway but that is down to over zealous regulations.  Sorry i'm not crying into my pillow about a reduction in that lot most are young enough to find something else and not many will give a stuff about Rovers anyway.

It's just a once or twice a week couple of hours gig and the ONLY people to blame would be the ownership and operators of the club not fans wishing for radical change, a lot of whom put money INTO the club.

This is not true.  Many people would lose their jobs.  

[J*B]

3 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

This is not true.  Many people would lose their jobs.  

Which would be really sad. Unfortunately, I still think long term it’s the best option. 

[Mattyblue]

You downvoted my post, Paul which is odd, so what part of it was untrue?

’terrible for the staff involved… but as they won’t improve the club, won’t willingly sell, admin seems the only eventually’.

[tomphil]

27 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

This is not true.  Many people would lose their jobs.  

As they will when we eventually get relegated and as will many more if the club embarks on an even further downward trajectory.

Furthermore as pointed out previously the majority would be matchday staff who come and go anyway and there's likely a high turnover of different people doing that due to the as and when nature and age.

Everything has collateral damage attached to it.

How many will lose their jobs or have hours cut due to digitalisation and reduced store opening ?

Where is the outcry about that ?   There isn't one because a lot assume it's just progress and cost saving.

Edited November 18, 2024 by tomphil

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

As they will when we eventually get relegated and as will many more if the club embarks on an even further downward trajectory.

Furthermore as pointed out previously the majority would be matchday staff who come and go anyway and there's likely a high turnover of different people doing that due to the as and when nature and age.

Everything has collateral damage attached to it.

How many will lose their jobs or have hours cut due to digitalisation and reduced store opening ?

Where is the outcry about that ?   There isn't one because a lot assume it's just progress and cost saving.

100%

Again, what about the detrimental effect they've already had not only on the club itself but the town and surrounding areas?

What about the continued effects of them being here?

Not really sure what people don't understand about this.

I suppose you don't get much of a view of the wider world when you're head is permanently in the sand.

[Crimpshrine]

On 16/11/2024 at 10:04, Forever Blue said:

You were adamant a few months ago, along with a few others, that they couldn’t fund the club due to the court ruling. I said they could and explained why. I notice Crimpshine has recently corroborated exactly what I was saying a few months ago, even though he and others claimed I was talking shite at the time. 

What I always said was that the court hearing that allowed them to send money in November 2023 did not create a ruling that they could send any further money. That was confirmed by Suhail. However, something happened in July which, according to Suhail, changed the situation. I don't know for certain what this 'something' was and have yet to see any evidence as to what it was. 

Prior to July, they could not send any money without going back to court. If you were saying they could before July then I don't think that was correct. If you were saying it only after July, please explain what happened.

[Upside Down]

2 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

What I always said was that the court hearing that allowed them to send money in November 2023 did not create a ruling that they could send any further money. That was confirmed by Suhail. However, something happened in July which, according to Suhail, changed the situation. I don't know for certain what this 'something' was and have yet to see any evidence as to what it was. 

Prior to July, they could not send any money without going back to court. If you were saying they could before July then I don't think that was correct. If you were saying it only after July, please explain what happened.

All evidence available suggests that they can't. Possibly just a lie to pacify the concerns over here.

I doubt even the shadow man will be properly informed of what's going on in India.

[Oldgregg86]

I watched Stockport play stalybridge Celtic at their lowest ebb five plus years ago. £25 a ticket

[lraC]

8 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

What I always said was that the court hearing that allowed them to send money in November 2023 did not create a ruling that they could send any further money. That was confirmed by Suhail. However, something happened in July which, according to Suhail, changed the situation. I don't know for certain what this 'something' was and have yet to see any evidence as to what it was. 

Prior to July, they could not send any money without going back to court. If you were saying they could before July then I don't think that was correct. If you were saying it only after July, please explain what happened.

Exactly what I have been saying too.

This new narrative that funds can be sent, so long as the same amount is deposited in a bond has resulted in zero, being sent ever since.

Suhail has confirmed, as you correctly state that the ruling in November 2023 did not create a “precedent” which was the word used by Waggott.

There will be no funds sent in my opinion, until the court agree that funds can be sent and as we have now seen 4 times, this court hearing just keeps getting put back. The latest one prompted an article in a national paper, stating that the club is in danger of going bust.

What have we seen since, a resignation in the recruitment department and a statement from another backroom boy, that we will loan and develop, other clubs players. 

Edited November 19, 2024 by lraC

[Upside Down]

10 minutes ago, lraC said:

Exactly what I have been saying too.

This new narrative that funds can be sent, so long as the same amount is deposited in a bond has resulted in zero, being sent ever since.

Suhail has confirmed, as you correctly state that the ruling in November 2023 did not create a “precedent” which was the word used by Waggott.

There will be no funds sent in my opinion, until the court agree that funds can be sent and as we have now seen 4 times, this court hearing just keeps getting put back. The latest one prompted an article in a national paper, stating that the club is in danger of going bust.

What have we seen since, a resignation in the recruitment department and a statement from another backroom boy, that we will loan and develop, other clubs players. 

As others have said, when the disgusting troll leaves then we'll know that the shit is about to hit the fan.

[Paul Mellelieu]

14 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

You downvoted my post, Paul which is odd, so what part of it was untrue?

’terrible for the staff involved… but as they won’t improve the club, won’t willingly sell, admin seems the only eventually’.

I don't think admin is the only eventuality, and we shouldn't be indifferent, never mind in favour of, a situation that could lead to the club's demise, cause significant to local suppliers and businesses, and leave many local people without jobs.  

[Mattyblue]

Where have I shown indifference or asked for administration? I’m stating my opinion on what will be the eventuality.

So presumably then you think they will willingly sell or actually improve the club?

When will we see any inkling of that?

[Paul Mellelieu]

8 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Where have I shown indifference or asked for administration? I’m stating my opinion on what will be the eventuality.

So presumably then you think they will willingly sell or actually improve the club?

When will we see any inkling of that?

Apologies if I misunderstood your post, or conflated it with others.  I think admin is unlikely, sale is unlikely and we are in never-ending purgatory.  I have nothing to be positive about the leadership of the club, aside from JE's best efforts in dire circumstances.  

[Mattyblue]

I think all three are unlikely too. But as they will never sell by the looks of it and they certainly won’t ever make a stab at running the club properly, the more likely end game of the three is some legal tangle that forces it off them… but yes, plodding on for eternity to the lower leagues seems most likely.

[den]

Even the thought of Venkys leading the search for new owners fills me with dread.

[JHRover]

The trajectory that they have put us on in the last 3-4 years is one which sooner or later will drop the club into League One.

Some suggest that these cuts are purely a result of their legal issues in India, which I think is totally wrong. If we look back the budget cuts were in full flow before that, going back to the start of Covid and there was talk at the time about them having issues due to the pandemic and the club needing to 'help' them through etc.

Whether this was a genuine issue for them or whether it was just a convenient excuse to justify further cuts it matters not, the important thing to keep in mind here is that it has been going on for years and has not all been brought upon them by the Indian authorities.

You cannot exist indefinitely in a highly competitive, ambitious league filled with ex-PL clubs, owners who want to improve and progress, invest in their clubs, with our short term, cost cutting model.

One look over our shoulders at the likes of Birmingham, Wrexham, yes Stockport, in League One but with wealthy owners putting money in, investing in facilities, players, wages, growing gates - these are clubs that are working hard to get to the Championship and beyond whilst we stagnate on a road to nowhere - sooner or later they will replace us.

There's no place in competitive sport for timewasters, which this club will always be under these owners.

We've got away with it the last few years. To Mowbray's credit he left us with a number of valuable assets developed over several years going back to a time when they did invest some money, these assets kept us competitive on the pitch and allowed for a slither of reinvestment. Then the last couple of years we've had the emergence of talents like Wharton and Szmodics.

What should of course happen is the £30+ million brought in from those sales should then go into new quality players on long term deals which themselves deliver in the Championship and lead to success or big sales down the line. No such plan here though which is a recipe for disaster - no owner investment and no reinvestment of sale proceeds = disaster.

 

[Mike E]

1 hour ago, den said:

Even the thought of Venkys leading the search for new owners fills me with dread.

Doubt they could find one willing to overlook due diligence.

[Rogerb]

One of the reasons given for their lack of intention in visiting us for a game was the wish to concentrate on their business in India. I have been puzzled for a long time about how their ineptitude in looking after Rovers has not been reflected in the running of their Indian businesses if they are basically inept at running businesses in general. It would seem that general ineptitude is starting to appear with the group as a whole with substantial reduction in group profits.

[Herbie6590]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

Doubt they could find one willing to overlook due diligence.

The due diligence would be on the business being sold not the whole empire, there have never been any questions raised by any authority about the bona fides of the club. 

[tomphil]

24 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

One of the reasons given for their lack of intention in visiting us for a game was the wish to concentrate on their business in India. I have been puzzled for a long time about how their ineptitude in looking after Rovers has not been reflected in the running of their Indian businesses if they are basically inept at running businesses in general. It would seem that general ineptitude is starting to appear with the group as a whole with substantial reduction in group profits.

Indeed and perhaps some of their shareholders got fed up enough of the money they send here and tipped the nod to the authorities they thought something is amiss.

[wilsdenrover]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

Doubt they could find one willing to overlook due diligence.

They could always sell to themselves.

Edited November 19, 2024 by wilsdenrover

[Paul Mellelieu]

29 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

They could always sell to themselves.

They've already done that.