Venky’s v Indian Government (a) - 5/8/25 - Perennially Re-Arranged Challenge Match

[J*B]

My understanding of this was that this means for every £1 they send here, they also have to send £1 to a bank account owned by the Indian Government as essentially a bond whilst the case is underway. Can anyone confirm/clarify that?

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, J*B said:

My understanding of this was that this means for every £1 they send here, they also have to send £1 to a bank account owned by the Indian Government as essentially a bond whilst the case is underway. Can anyone confirm/clarify that?

That seems to be the general understanding from those that have looked into it but don't think it's been confirmed by a official source as such.

Edited March 14, 2024 by RevidgeBlue

[J*B]

3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

That seems to be the general understanding from those that have looked into it but don't think it's been confirmed by an official source as such.

That is what Waggott told me and has been reported in the Athletic. So that’s what I’m sticking with until we know any different. 

[RevidgeBlue]

6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Giving benefit of doubt maybe they are preparing one final big case to say look let us fund it as normal without having to apply to the court every few months.  

Sounds a bit that way. The question of whether the Government are technically entitled to intervene in this manner ought to be a fairly straightforward one - either they can or they can't.

[Miller11]

9 minutes ago, J*B said:

My understanding of this was that this means for every £1 they send here, they also have to send £1 to a bank account owned by the Indian Government as essentially a bond whilst the case is underway. Can anyone confirm/clarify that?

Confirmed.

[joey_big_nose]

I think there must be enough leverage now to make them sell. Its not sustainable. We need a combination of 

1. A credible buyer

2. Pressure from a UK authority to sell (hopefully the new regulator).

3. Fan alignment that they want the sale also

Reckon theres a way forward for for 2. and 3. - the issue is the buyer. Is there anyone out there? Could a fan consortium do it? How have other clubs in similar situations made it work?

[RevidgeBlue]

The future of the Club hangs in the balance and the LT are back in 3 wise monkeys mode I see.

It's like the whole thing just isn't happening.

[Polky]

How can you plan for next season, when you won’t know your budget until August?

Free agents become available on 1 July 2024 and we’ll have no funds to try and sign anyone. Regardless of the division we are in, next season we’ll be fucked.

[J*B]

11 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

So effectively means we can't make transfers in summer unless we sell. 

Wharton and Raya money to fund the club til August.

Any funds from this application can't be used on transfers.

Cue Waggott praising owners and then not spending a penny.

Pathetic. 

Not necessarily true. The general understanding (as above) is they can still fund it as normal, but for every £1 they send to the club they have to put a £1 deposit into a Indian Government owned Bank as a deposit. Which in summer they obviously didn’t want to do. Either they’re terrified they’ll lose the case or they don’t have (or don’t want) the cash flow of double bubble.

[Herbie6590]

1 minute ago, Miller11 said:

Confirmed.

So the next question is “do they intend to send the cash notwithstanding the bond/escrow requirement”?

 

Being able to do so is one thing…being willing to is another…

 

[Dreams of 1995]

48 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Whilst on the subject does no one think the training ground sale will come back and bite us on the arse at some point ?

Seeing as it was valued at probably 3 times it's real value or is that why they only appear to have actually paid half the money into the club for it ?

I think the value of the training ground is insignificant, really. The land is pretty much worthless to developers for the medium term. No way will it be able to be used for anything other than Rovers or some form of employment. One of the big criticisms of the brockhall development plan was that it just wasn't needed. The demand for housing just is not there in this area. When Rovers first took on Brockhall it was able to get planning permission in part because Rovers stressed it would continue to be a place of employment, as that is a condition of the land following its former use as a hospital / major employer.

If Venkys sell the club they will have to put the training ground back in control of BRFC

The whole training ground development was such a bizarre move looking back on it. It was never, ever going to be allowed, so why did they even try it?

[ben_the_beast]

With the latest delay we are fucked financially. However it surely ramps up the pressure for them to sell the club. Even Venky happy clappers must now see their ownership is completely unsustainable. 

[Dreams of 1995]

Would Venkys be able to sell the Club whilst the investigation is still live?

[roverblue]

Is there anyone who has a line into the club that can get us a thorough explanation of what is going on? This radio silence is worse than just being told the grim reality.

Do the fans matter so little to the club that all we get is soundbites from the manager and players telling us to clap along and turn up?

[Ghost7]

No... people are happy to keep kidding themselves "They look after us" "We'll know more in August".

In the meantime those same people have no idea what it takes to run a business successfully. 

Fan base of happy clappy clowns - and a club who's fortunes are forever either at the mercy of the Indian government or disconnected owners  🤡

A laughing stock in English football since 2010.

[Ghost7]

Venky's "Forever going nowhere" should be the slogan. Put that on your bargain bucket!

[Mattyblue]

No demand for housing in the Ribble Valley?!

I think any resident of Whalley, Langho, Clitheroe will certainly disagree with that notion, indeed just drive into those areas to see the vast amounts of housing springing up…

Edited March 14, 2024 by Mattyblue

[J*B]

12 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I think the value of the training ground is insignificant, really. The land is pretty much worthless to developers for the medium term. No way will it be able to be used for anything other than Rovers or some form of employment. One of the big criticisms of the brockhall development plan was that it just wasn't needed. The demand for housing just is not there in this area. When Rovers first took on Brockhall it was able to get planning permission in part because Rovers stressed it would continue to be a place of employment, as that is a condition of the land following its former use as a hospital / major employer.

If Venkys sell the club they will have to put the training ground back in control of BRFC

The whole training ground development was such a bizarre move looking back on it. It was never, ever going to be allowed, so why did they even try it?

The demand for housing isn’t there?! My house in the Ribble Valley has gone up in value by over 20% in 2 years, the Ribble Valley has a population problem, you can’t get a house here!

[arbitro]

13 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

So the next question is “do they intend to send the cash notwithstanding the bond/escrow requirement”?

 

Being able to do so is one thing…being willing to is another…

 

Didn't they borrow some money from a source in this country at a high interest rate? I recall it being reported and I think the source was actually named. A link to Bolton comes to mind.

[Crimpshrine]

15 minutes ago, J*B said:

Not necessarily true. The general understanding (as above) is they can still fund it as normal, but for every £1 they send to the club they have to put a £1 deposit into a Indian Government owned Bank as a deposit. Which in summer they obviously didn’t want to do. Either they’re terrified they’ll lose the case or they don’t have (or don’t want) the cash flow of double bubble.

I seem to remember from the previous court documents that they can only send cash over if approved by the court.  Even this money must be matched by a security of the same value held in india.

I don't think they are allowed to send any money not approved by the court even if they do provide security. So, they can't fund as normal.

[J*B]

1 minute ago, Crimpshrine said:

I seem to remember from the previous court documents that they can only send cash over if approved by the court.  Even this money must be matched by a security of the same value held in india.

I don't think they are allowed to send any money not approved by the court even if they do provide security. So, they can't fund as normal.

Thats not correct mate.

To send the money WITHOUT having to duplicate it as a bond they have to go through the court.

They can send as much money as they want right now if they want, but have to match it as a bond to the Government. 

[Miller11]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

Not necessarily true. The general understanding (as above) is they can still fund it as normal, but for every £1 they send to the club they have to put a £1 deposit into a Indian Government owned Bank as a deposit. Which in summer they obviously didn’t want to do. Either they’re terrified they’ll lose the case or they don’t have (or don’t want) the cash flow of double bubble.

 

1 minute ago, Herbie6590 said:

So the next question is “do they intend to send the cash notwithstanding the bond/escrow requirement”?

 

Being able to do so is one thing…being willing to is another…

 

Apologies, I think I may have jumped the gun on the above. Didn’t read Josh’s posts in full.

For every pound they have sent so far, they have had to guarantee with equivalent. But they can’t send money without permission. 

The case that is ongoing is not directly linked to Rovers or VLL, which probably goes a long way to explaining the silence from the club. If anyone at Rovers was even aware of how the case had gone (or hadn’t) before it became public record, I expect they’d have been forbidden from commenting on it.

I suppose now we will see what Venky’s appetite to keep funding is, as there will no doubt be ways around it. Without a No Objection Certificate, or a one off exemption, VENKATESHWARA HATCHERIES PRIVATE LIMITED can’t send remittance overseas. The purpose of this hearing wasn’t just to get that agreed, but it would’ve been one desired outcome.

I’m speculating here, but I don’t see why they couldn’t get money over from elsewhere, or apply for the certificate directly to the enforcement agency away from the ongoing court proceedings.

[Dreams of 1995]

2 minutes ago, J*B said:

The demand for housing isn’t there?! My house in the Ribble Valley has gone up in value by over 20% in 2 years, the Ribble Valley has a population problem, you can’t get a house here!

Badly worded

The demand from people moght be there, but not from the local authority

The housing in Brockhall and surrounding areas are classed as over-subscribed. There aren't enough schools, doctors etc to service what they already have. An extra 170 houses is not at the top of the list for either residents or councillors. Especially not in Brockhall Village

[Rogerb]

Each time they want to send money over they have to go to court to get the judges permission. The directorate has regularly objected to the sending of money. The judge ruled it was allowable to pay HMRC and then again to run the club for the next three months with the £11 million last November.

[lraC]

I am hoping that Venky's have been well and truly rumbled this time.

For those who don't know, I went in to see Waggott in November, after E Mailing him about the article in the Indian press about illegal payments being made by the owners.

I asked him about the court hearing carried out, prior to my meeting with him and he was full of bluster about how this was always going to be a formality and given that they had "set a precedent" he enthused that the meeting in March was just to rubber stamp the next tranche. He also disclosed that there was enough money in the bank, for the club to meet it's obligations until February.

One thing I have always had at the back of my mind, is that Venky's stated that they were protecting their investment, by sending these funds, which I guess is a backdoor way of saying that unless they are allowed to send further funds, their investment goes bump.

As we know, they are under deep scrutiny at the minute, so perhaps someone has had a close look at their investment and maybe decided that pumping £200m into it and finding it to be worth around a quarter of that amount (if that) means any further funds are highly unlikely to be protecting anything, in fact quite the opposite, the funds are simply diminishing almost instantly.

It is speculation on my part, but if the Indian authorities are scrutinising funds leaving the country, then maybe they want to know that it is a sound investment and perhaps they are beginning to realise it is far from sound and are on the verge of stopping any further funds being sent.

It is then either put the club up for sale, or administration, which may well happen anyway, between now and August.