Gregg Broughton

[Mattyblue]

Not sure ‘help us stay out of League 1!’ Is much of a driver to buy a £400/£500 season ticket but there you go.

[chaddyrovers]

  On 13/05/2024 at 11:01, Mattyblue said:

Not sure ‘help us stay out of League 1!’ Is much of a driver to buy a £400/£500 season ticket but there you go.

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I wouldn't have put them at that price but at the prices I have suggested in previous posts. 

[J*B]

  On 12/05/2024 at 19:11, chaddyrovers said:

@Miller11 anything been said on this coming season shirt sponsor? 

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Watson & Ramsbottom I heard.

[J*B]

  On 12/05/2024 at 19:05, Miller11 said:

We’ve had quite a lot of discussion around commercial performance over the last couple of years. The recent accounts show commercial income has grown from £4.8 million to £6.1 million per annum. Turnover was up 25% year on year.

Similarly, average attendance and number of season ticket holders is up again this year. 14% up over the last 2 years. Average attendance the highest since we were relegated. Match day revenue up £1.7 million in the last year.

I get asked on a near daily basis why aren’t we challenging the club on dwindling attendances and decreased commercial revenue. Obviously we can’t attack the club or anyone who works there based on misconceptions. What we can do is express our desire for things to grow at a quicker rate and provide feedback and suggestions on how this might be achieved.

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How much of that 1.3M increase was directly via the owners as they increased their marketing with more ground presence, training wear and sleeves? We can’t possibly be counting successful commercial gains if they are “we sold advertising to ourselves”.

This seasons STs will be significantly down. Almost every game is on TV, the majority of fans are not excited by Eustace like they where with JDT and there’s a rumoured average price increase!

[wilsdenrover]

  On 13/05/2024 at 11:20, J*B said:

How much of that 1.3M increase was directly via the owners as they increased their marketing with more ground presence, training wear and sleeves? We can’t possibly be counting successful commercial gains if they are “we sold advertising to ourselves”.

This seasons STs will be significantly down. Almost every game is on TV, the majority of fans are not excited by Eustace like they were with JDT and there’s a rumoured average price increase!

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Were those ‘deals’ completed prior to the 2023 accounting period ending?

[chaddyrovers]

  On 13/05/2024 at 11:18, J*B said:

Watson & Ramsbottom I heard.

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Thanks

[Trinidad Rover]

So Waggott reigns supreme.

Sickening.

[tomphil]

  On 13/05/2024 at 11:01, Mattyblue said:

Not sure ‘help us stay out of League 1!’ Is much of a driver to buy a £400/£500 season ticket but there you go.

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We are owned by billionaires but they've fallen foul of ignoring their own countries laws and after dragging the club into a shell of its former self over the last decade now can't fund their baby.

So please roll up and chuck out 4/500 quid up front whilst we sell the last remaining best player, spend nothing of the 40 million we've brought in and embark on operation 4th from bottom.

All whilst the inept CEO and his puppet master OM in the shadows pocket ate least half a mill between them.

Roll up roll up you ungrateful Blackburn barstools !

[Miller11]

  On 13/05/2024 at 11:20, J*B said:

How much of that 1.3M increase was directly via the owners as they increased their marketing with more ground presence, training wear and sleeves? We can’t possibly be counting successful commercial gains if they are “we sold advertising to ourselves”.

This seasons STs will be significantly down. Almost every game is on TV, the majority of fans are not excited by Eustace like they where with JDT and there’s a rumoured average price increase!

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The 5 year sponsorship deal with Venky’s began in July 2023 and those accounts were up to June 2023, so that increased revenue will show on the next set.

As stated above I agree that unless there is radical changes to the season ticket offer, numbers will be drastically down this season for a multitude of reasons. We’ve conveyed these concerns very strongly and suggested ways to address this. I’ve seen the rumours of the price increase on here and Twitter, I don’t know where they originated but I hope they are incorrect.

 

Steve Waggott has stated on several occasions that he is set very specific financial targets that he has to meet, and I get the impression that failure to do so would not be met with any sympathy or leeway from Venky’s. The entire operation is extremely risk averse in terms of this, and I’d say his overarching objective is ensuring we avoid administration, never fall behind with wages or HMRC payments, and ensuring we don’t find ourselves in a points deduction or embargo situation. Having said that I think now is the opportune time to take a risk considering that immediate FFP and P&S issues are not a concern after the last 12 months or so - of course cashflow might present a bigger issue though.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

  On 13/05/2024 at 11:47, tomphil said:

We are owned by billionaires but they've fallen foul of ignoring their own countries laws and after dragging the club into a shell of its former self over the last decade now can't fund their baby.

So please roll up and chuck out 4/500 quid up front whilst we sell the last remaining best player, spend nothing of the 40 million we've brought in and embark on operation 4th from bottom.

All whilst the inept CEO and his puppet master OM in the shadows pocket ate least half a mill between them.

Roll up roll up you ungrateful Blackburn barstools !

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It’s a wonder to me that anybody bothers going to Rovers anymore. Talk about “ Stockholm Syndrome “ !

[J*B]

  On 13/05/2024 at 11:49, Miller11 said:

The 5 year sponsorship deal with Venky’s began in July 2023 and those accounts were up to June 2023, so that increased revenue will show on the next set.

As stated above I agree that unless there is radical changes to the season ticket offer, numbers will be drastically down this season for a multitude of reasons. We’ve conveyed these concerns very strongly and suggested ways to address this. I’ve seen the rumours of the price increase on here and Twitter, I don’t know where they originated but I hope they are incorrect.

 

Steve Waggott has stated on several occasions that he is set very specific financial targets that he has to meet, and I get the impression that failure to do so would not be met with any sympathy or leeway from Venky’s. The entire operation is extremely risk averse in terms of this, and I’d say his overarching objective is ensuring we avoid administration, never fall behind with wages or HMRC payments, and ensuring we don’t find ourselves in a points deduction or embargo situation. Having said that I think now is the opportune time to take a risk considering that immediate FFP and P&S issues are not a concern after the last 12 months or so - of course cashflow might present a bigger issue though.

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So the commercial numbers have genuinely increase, which is good.

RE the financial targets, I agree with the first sentence but thats entirely his own doing. If he's unhappy with that he either 1) should have demanded a different set of circumstances or 2) walked away from his job as the structure you describe is destined for failure. In addition, he's getting 4M quid extra this season due to the new TV deal. Thats enough to knock £350 off every ST holders ticket. Unless of course the 4M quid is coming off Venkys bill. 

Finally, I'm not sure how cashflow can be a bigger issue. He's just got 18M guaranteed for Wharton, 3.25M for Raya, 2.5M for Kaminski, 2M for Phillips and historically had 15M for the training ground, 17M for Armstrong and rejected over 10M for Brereton. I make that almost 60M since 2022. If we've got cash flow issues now frankly the business is insolvent. 

[chaddyrovers]

  On 13/05/2024 at 12:07, J*B said:

So the commercial numbers have genuinely increase, which is good.

RE the financial targets, I agree with the first sentence but thats entirely his own doing. If he's unhappy with that he either 1) should have demanded a different set of circumstances or 2) walked away from his job as the structure you describe is destined for failure. In addition, he's getting 4M quid extra this season due to the new TV deal. Thats enough to knock £350 off every ST holders ticket. Unless of course the 4M quid is coming off Venkys bill. 

Finally, I'm not sure how cashflow can be a bigger issue. He's just got 18M guaranteed for Wharton, 3.25M for Raya, 2.5M for Kaminski, 2M for Phillips and historically had 15M for the training ground, 17M for Armstrong and rejected over 10M for Brereton. I make that almost 60M since 2022. If we've got cash flow issues now frankly the business is insolvent. 

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Didn't we give Newcastle 40% of the fee we got for Armstrong? 

We all think ST needs to be lower to around £250 for BBE adult ST

[J*B]

  On 13/05/2024 at 12:11, chaddyrovers said:

Didn't we give Newcastle 40% of the fee we got for Armstrong? 

We all think ST needs to be lower to around £250 for BBE adult ST

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I'm unsure Chaddy - probably. All I know is:

We're not going to be able to keep developing these players and selling them for millions. At some point we will have a period where we don't have the immediate talent ready to step up. 

Ewood Park needs major investment and to my knowledge, hasn't had any significant improvements in over 10 years.

We almost wen't down this year - infact, if Leicester had something to play for I'm confident we would have gone down - and that squad needs major investment. 

On average our ground has as many empty seats as it does have people sat in them which is hampering the club both on and off the pitch and I can't see any sort of plan to combat this. 

[lraC]

  On 13/05/2024 at 12:11, chaddyrovers said:

Didn't we give Newcastle 40% of the fee we got for Armstrong? 

We all think ST needs to be lower to around £250 for BBE adult ST

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As stated above with the extra £4m TV revenue and on the back of that, horrible kick off times, at least every other week, anything above the £250 you have stated, will hopefully mean a boycott.

A stand has to be made somehow, or where does it all end?

[JHRover]

If Waggott was fired for missing his financial targets he would be the first Venky Rovers employee in 14 years to suffer such a fate.

They've been quite happy to allow failing ineptitude at every level of the operation throughout their tenure. I very much doubt Waggott would be any different.

[Miller11]

  On 13/05/2024 at 12:07, J*B said:

So the commercial numbers have genuinely increase, which is good.

RE the financial targets, I agree with the first sentence but thats entirely his own doing. If he's unhappy with that he either 1) should have demanded a different set of circumstances or 2) walked away from his job as the structure you describe is destined for failure. In addition, he's getting 4M quid extra this season due to the new TV deal. Thats enough to knock £350 off every ST holders ticket. Unless of course the 4M quid is coming off Venkys bill. 

Finally, I'm not sure how cashflow can be a bigger issue. He's just got 18M guaranteed for Wharton, 3.25M for Raya, 2.5M for Kaminski, 2M for Phillips and historically had 15M for the training ground, 17M for Armstrong and rejected over 10M for Brereton. I make that almost 60M since 2022. If we've got cash flow issues now frankly the business is insolvent. 

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Most football clubs are technically insolvent. All that historic money has long since gone on running costs, the rest of the income we are due will go the same way. The difference at the moment is we don’t need an immediate cash injection from Venky’s to keep P&S compliant and to pay immediate creditors. If they are willing (and more importantly able) to continue to stump up circa £13 million, then there is a lot of leeway for once.

[J*B]

  On 13/05/2024 at 12:18, Miller11 said:

Most football clubs are technically insolvent. All that historic money has long since gone on running costs, the rest of the income we are due will go the same way. The difference at the moment is we don’t need an immediate cash injection from Venky’s to keep P&S compliant and to pay immediate creditors. If they are willing (and more importantly able) to continue to stump up circa £13 million, then there is a lot of leeway for once.

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Steve has said in recent notes - perhaps with the Fans Forum - there's nothing stopping Venkys making investment anymore. From what I can see there's been no update with their court case as it was postponed again, but he clearly knows more than me, so I look forward to a transfer window of investment as the squad is desperate for it. 

[J*B]

  On 13/05/2024 at 12:18, Miller11 said:

Most football clubs are technically insolvent. All that historic money has long since gone on running costs, the rest of the income we are due will go the same way. The difference at the moment is we don’t need an immediate cash injection from Venky’s to keep P&S compliant and to pay immediate creditors. If they are willing (and more importantly able) to continue to stump up circa £13 million, then there is a lot of leeway for once.

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PS: I know none of this is your fault @Miller11 and its unfair to shoot the messenger. All I'm saying is in my opinion there's no evidence of this club progressing under its current structure and constraints, so whilst the messenger is reporting back the state of play as per information from Waggott, I am loathed to believe it.

[chaddyrovers]

  On 13/05/2024 at 12:16, lraC said:

As stated above with the extra £4m TV revenue and on the back of that, horrible kick off times, at least every other week, anything above the £250 you have stated, will hopefully mean a boycott.

A stand has to be made somehow, or where does it all end?

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each supporter will make their own decision whether they buy ST or not. Each Supporter should be judged or criticise whether they decide to buy one or not.

[Crimpshrine]

  On 13/05/2024 at 12:20, J*B said:

Steve has said in recent notes - perhaps with the Fans Forum - there's nothing stopping Venkys making investment anymore. From what I can see there's been no update with their court case as it was postponed again, but he clearly knows more than me, so I look forward to a transfer window of investment as the squad is desperate for it. 

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Waggott is very clever with words. I think he has stated that the Indian court case will not affect the owners 'ability to fund the club'.

I am convinced that the owners can not make any new investments in the club until august at least. The income you listed in a previous post ( £60m ) is, effectively, the owners money to do with as they like. They have chosen to use it to fund the day to day running of the club - so Waggott's claim is true.

Obviously this is unsustainable and is not benefiting the club. Venky's are just very lucky that player sales came at a time that coincided with their restrictions in India.  Without player sales we would be reduced to loans against the training ground as the only option.

If the situation in India is not affecting the owners' ability to invest then why were budgets slashed last summer and why is crowd funding being mentioned for safe standing when the owners could pay for this without affecting FFP in any way ?

Waggott does know more than us but he is very rarely completely truthful

 

 

[Mattyblue]

Call it what you want, ‘boycott’, ‘protest’, or just sick of watching and being treat like shite for a decade.

But to go from nearly 20,000 ST holders when they bought the club to, what? 6/7k next term means it’s happening regardless of labels and anything organised.

[lraC]

  On 13/05/2024 at 12:58, chaddyrovers said:

each supporter will make their own decision whether they buy ST or not. Each Supporter should be judged or criticise whether they decide to buy one or not.

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I do agree and would not criticise anyone, who decides they are renewing.

[lraC]

  On 13/05/2024 at 13:13, Crimpshrine said:

Waggott is very clever with words. I think he has stated that the Indian court case will not affect the owners 'ability to fund the club'.

I am convinced that the owners can not make any new investments in the club until august at least. The income you listed in a previous post ( £60m ) is, effectively, the owners money to do with as they like. They have chosen to use it to fund the day to day running of the club - so Waggott's claim is true.

Obviously this is unsustainable and is not benefiting the club. Venky's are just very lucky that player sales came at a time that coincided with their restrictions in India.  Without player sales we would be reduced to loans against the training ground as the only option.

If the situation in India is not affecting the owners' ability to invest then why were budgets slashed last summer and why is crowd funding being mentioned for safe standing when the owners could pay for this without affecting FFP in any way ?

Waggott does know more than us but he is very rarely completely truthful

 

 

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If they court hearing was a formality, we would almost certainly know the price of the season tickets by now and maybe even have a statement of intent from the club, to ensure there were some positive vibes, before the launch. 

[TugaysMarlboro]

They can invest as much as they 'want' as long as they back it up 100% with a payment to the BOI can't they? I think I read that somewhere.

In which case if they gave a shite, they could invest. But they won't.

[Trinidad Rover]

It is just sad. Past anger with this lot in charge now.

Likely should have known better, but when Broughton and JDT arrived in the summer of 2022 it seemed like a fresh, ambitious start. All the talk was about growth and getting to the premier league. It sounded like lessons had been learned and structures, processes and people put in place to progress the club. We then had the best season since relegation, including two great cup runs. JDT was the best manager we have had in years - ambitious, driven and demanding high standards. Broughton probably was out of his depth, but he seemed honest and with good intentions. When last could we say that about people at the club? Certainly can't now.

Fast forward two years and there is no argument we are worse off. Waggott (can barely bring myself to mention his name my loathing for that man is so high) is back in total control. Venkys are still here, none of us know why. The club is celebrating staying in the league. A 37 year old McFadzean signing a new deal (after release from the mighty....Coventry) is marquee. Another mediocre, journeyman manager in charge. Declining attendances, Ewood left to ruin and no announcement on season tickets. Our best talent for a generation flogged prematurely to keep the lights on.

The club in its current state don't deserve the fans. It is clear, to me at least, the club is being run in spite of and not for us. 

It is rotten. 

Edited May 14, 2024 by Trinidad Rover