That *was* the January Window

[RevidgeBlue]

14 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Happy to 👍

In an ideal world it would be great to be able to seamlessly change one player for another (with no change of system) but Rover’s world is far from ideal.

I don’t think our squad is strong enough to play the same way irrespective of which  players are available.

For example, I think only Wharton (A) and Sammie can fulfil the requirements of what JDT wants from their ‘roles’ on the pitch.

I believe JDTs reluctance to be flexible with our style means there’s a bigger ‘drop off’ in the quality of our team (once players are missing) than is necessary.

It’s obviously not his fault the squad isn’t more rounded but I think he bears some responsibility for not adjusting how we play to take account of who’s available to him.

Put more succinctly…

worse player(s) + same system = weaker team.

 

 

Agreed, also on a more basic level it has always baffled me how people think selling a player then bringing in several for the same money ( who by definition must be inferior) enhances a team/squad.

If you think you can replace Travis like for like with a better player - fair enough. But I doubt that's what's happening here.

[Waggy76]

If Hill is returning to Bournemouth and Travis is leaving for pastures new , I have no faith in our D of F to sign players who will improve us ..

[JHRover]

Some people never seem to learn 

If players are sold the proceeds will not be reinvested. At best we get a % back, probably nothing given the state of things.

The wage bill will come down as it has done every window. We won't reinvest all the wages freed up.

All the excuses....Indian government, FFP, lack of time, paperwork issues, moving goalposts....all primed and ready to go when business doesn't get done. Telegraph doing their bit to embed the excuses in readers minds today.

Been the same story for the last 5-6 transfer windows

The club is in my opinion run by charlatans, liars and bullshitters. I don't at this time include JDT or Broughton in that as this circus began well before they arrived and I think they genuinely mean well. Unfortunately they are mere tools in the grand scheme of things.

Someone like Isaac Hayden isn't coming here unless Newcastle agree to a very generous loan. His wages will comfortably outstrip anyone else's at the Club and we ain't shelling out on wages these days. A loan is no use if we are funding it by selling.

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Agreed, also on a more basic level it has always baffled me how people think selling a player then bringing in several for the same money ( who by definition must be inferior) enhances a team/squad.

If you think you can replace Travis like for like with a better player - fair enough. But I doubt that's what's happening here.

Travis is about 4th or 5th choice at the minute with Tronstad, Wharton, Garrett and JRC(if fit) ahead of him. Plus Buckley will be back also. 

Buckley or JRC could replace him or we could add someone like Herbie Kane from Barnsley who would add quality to this squad

[wilsdenrover]

18 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

To be fair, he is probably right. 

Due to some of the dross Broughton's been signing recently we're probably no longer paying our top wage to "the worst" outfield player at the Club but "one of" the worst.

That must make it all OK.

GB would put it more like this…

’I’ve ensured that our worst performers are no longer the highest paid members of our squad’

[JHRover]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Travis is about 4th or 5th choice at the minute with Tronstad, Wharton, Garrett and JRC(if fit) ahead of him. Plus Buckley will be back also. 

Buckley or JRC could replace him or we could add someone like Herbie Kane from Barnsley who would add quality to this squad

But JRC isn't fit. He hasn't been for months and his record suggests that is likely to always be the case. So folly to make plans on him being available. 

Buckley is also out injured. And will be for 2 months. And not long ago you were supporting his departure out to Sheffield Wednesday whereas you now appear to be welcoming him back into the fold and putting ahead of Travis in the pecking order. Not sure why. 

Adam Wharton will be sold in the next few windows.

We aren't adding quality to the squad. You yourself have already explained why - FFP and Indian government. Even if we sold Travis for immediate cash by the time the money men have taken their slice towards running costs there ain't much left over in the pot. 

[bluebruce]

19 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Agreed, also on a more basic level it has always baffled me how people think selling a player then bringing in several for the same money ( who by definition must be inferior) enhances a team/squad.

Cheaper players are not inferior by definition. Transfer fees and wages are not a guarantee of what level the player operates at. There are plenty of bargains, and plenty of overpriced dross. Players (including the one sold) can easily be in deceptive runs of form.

The trick of course, is having the eye for a player and a bargain, as well as the negotiating skills, to get good deals made and not have your pants pulled down. And of course ensuring a sizeable chunk of the fee received is reinvested. These are the areas where we fall short when strengthening the squad after sales, and will quite possibly/probably continue to.

[tomphil]

No matter what us experts on here think the facts are to more or less guarantee an improvement on someone like Travis they need to be bringing in someone of Tronstads age and experience.  To improve on Gallagher we need another with a bit of pedigree like Sammie had.

Chances of these types of things happening are near enough nil the bigger picture is weed out all the bigger earners but we called this last summer anyway. This is where budget cuts lead so we have to pray they find cheap wage development players who can contribute more.

Despite what gets said about those 2 senior players over a season they do contribute, a kid who stays fit more and has better running around stats needs to contribute something more to replace that kind of experience.

Edited January 4 by tomphil

[simongarnerisgod]

37 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

If Hill is returning to Bournemouth and Travis is leaving for pastures new , I have no faith in our D of F to sign players who will improve us ..

im`e in agreement,only hope is jdt and his team doing the scouting themselves,on the basis of  broughtons list of recruits and his failure to supervise who could spell lewis o`brien he should have been given his p45 long ago

[47er]

29 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Travis is about 4th or 5th choice at the minute with Tronstad, Wharton, Garrett and JRC(if fit) ahead of him. Plus Buckley will be back also. 

Buckley or JRC could replace him or we could add someone like Herbie Kane from Barnsley who would add quality to this squad

Well, we are talking defensive mid-fielders here so bringing Wharton into it seems odd.

Garret is young, learning and promising, he should not be a first choice. JRC is prone to long periods out and always has been.

Buckley  is not the player we hoped he would be so its risky to rely on him and is not what I'd call a defensive mid-fielder anyway.

In terms of defensive midfielders we don't have a host of them as you seem to be implying.

In fact we are stretched and I would not be selling Travis whose commitment is always 100%.

[Oldgregg86]

I agree with the general consensus  that if  Travis goes the fee will be absorbed in running costs and the wages will be reduced to continue to dumb down the entire operation but to throw a different angle at it for the more positive to possibly cling to ( and this may be bs on my behalf) but I’ve been listening to “experts” explain Chelsea’s transfer policy and their fans arnt happy with Connor Gallagher possibly being sold. 
 

From what I gather this has something to do with homegrown players being sold elieviating ffp constraints giving more wiggle room for transfers, more than if you sold a player you had purchased . I know we always seem to be on the cusp of ffp and with Travis, carter and Wharton all linked away plus Buckley being loaned out , could be a way of manipulating our ffp constraints.

I know it’s operation dumb down at heart but i thought I’d put an alternative slant on the situation  where I’m sure the more wiser members of the board will understand  how it works far better than I can explain

Edited January 4 by Oldgregg86

[RevidgeBlue]

39 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Cheaper players are not inferior by definition. Transfer fees and wages are not a guarantee of what level the player operates at. There are plenty of bargains, and plenty of overpriced dross. Players (including the one sold) can easily be in deceptive runs of form.

The trick of course, is having the eye for a player and a bargain, as well as the negotiating skills, to get good deals made and not have your pants pulled down. And of course ensuring a sizeable chunk of the fee received is reinvested. These are the areas where we fall short when strengthening the squad after sales, and will quite possibly/probably continue to.

It CAN of course happen that you unearth a bargain from time to time but as a rule of thumb imo if you sell one of your better players then replace them with a couple of cheaper ones it makes the team weaker not stronger. How's the hunt to replace Armstrong and Brereton going?

That's 'even assuming you're allowed all the funds for reinvestment which probably wouldn't be the case here.

And finally, to cap it all off, you've got Broughton leading the search for a replacement. A frightening prospect.

[wilsdenrover]

2 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

I agree with the general consensus  thatif Travis goes the fee will be absorbed in running costs and the wages will be reduced to continue to dumb down the entire operation but to throw a different angle at it for the more positive to possibly cling to ( and this may be bs on my behalf) but I’ve been listening to “experts” explain Chelsea’s transfer policy and their fans arnt happy with Connor Gallagher possibly being sold. 
 

From what I gather this has something to do with homegrown players being sold elevating ffp.  I know we always seem to be on the cusp and with Travis, carter and Wharton all linked away plus Buckley being loaned out , could be a way of manipulating our ffp constraints.

I know it’s operation dumb down at heart but i thought I’d put an alternative slant at the situation 

I think this is only because home grown players have no book value and therefore any transfer fee received is all profit (in the accounts).

[Darwen Rover 007]

I often hear criticism of Broughton, personally I think he's done a very good job on the transfer front on the whole given the cash he has to work with.. he has brought in:

Hyam - success (+ value)

Sammie - success (+ value) 

Tronstad - success (+ value)

Brittain - on the whole a success, granted last month hasn't been great (= value)

Siggy - success (+ value)

Loans he has brought in have also been decent... Moran / Hill

Where has he failed so far...

Striker, not getting one at quality required, but was that his fault given budget?? You could argue he invested well in a  goalscorer with Sammie who is the top scorer in the league and a fraction of the cost of a decent striker?? 

Gk - again failed here, we needed an experienced guy for this position, its a high risk position and my view is this should always be an experienced man even if the quality is lower and have younger guy working through over time.

Also Broughton is responsible for bringing in JDT who has generally had a hugely positive impact.. we now have an identity playing some brilliant football (granted we need to solidify) but onnthe whole we are playing some exapnsive football, he has also made great progress with some of the players who have played the best football in their career under his watch (JRC, Wharton, Garrett).

Given our budget we can't afford dead certs, I think the egg has done a very very good job.

I think both him and JDT with a bit of support can get us in the top 10.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Buckley or JRC could replace him or we could add someone like Herbie Kane from Barnsley who would add quality to this squad

There's only one replacement for Travis.  Free aswell at the end of the season😉🤣

Edited January 4 by Sparks Rover

[Upside Down]

13 hours ago, Miller11 said:

For absolute clarity, my best guess would be to knock off several zeros!

I'd be amazed if it was £5.

[Mike E]

3 hours ago, Waggy76 said:

If Hill is returning to Bournemouth and Travis is leaving for pastures new , I have no faith in our D of F to sign players who will improve us ..

He did loan in Hill in the first place tbf. And the only player brought in Travis’ position is Tronstad, an undoubted upgrade.

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, JHRover said:

But JRC isn't fit. He hasn't been for months and his record suggests that is likely to always be the case. So folly to make plans on him being available. 

Buckley is also out injured. And will be for 2 months. And not long ago you were supporting his departure out to Sheffield Wednesday whereas you now appear to be welcoming him back into the fold and putting ahead of Travis in the pecking order. Not sure why. 

Adam Wharton will be sold in the next few windows.

We aren't adding quality to the squad. You yourself have already explained why - FFP and Indian government. Even if we sold Travis for immediate cash by the time the money men have taken their slice towards running costs there ain't much left over in the pot. 

We signed Tronstad to play the defensive midfielder role who is upgrade on Travis. He was free signing. We could sign replacement who would good back up to Tronstad. 

5 hours ago, 47er said:

Well, we are talking defensive mid-fielders here so bringing Wharton into it seems odd.

Garret is young, learning and promising, he should not be a first choice. JRC is prone to long periods out and always has been.

Buckley  is not the player we hoped he would be so its risky to rely on him and is not what I'd call a defensive mid-fielder anyway.

In terms of defensive midfielders we don't have a host of them as you seem to be implying.

In fact we are stretched and I would not be selling Travis whose commitment is always 100%.

Has JDT played him as defensive midfielder this season? No he haven't cos Wharton played there at start of the season. Travis played the 8 role not the 6 role. 

[Upside Down]

5 hours ago, Darwen Rover 007 said:

I often hear criticism of Broughton, personally I think he's done a very good job on the transfer front on the whole given the cash he has to work with.. he has brought in:

Hyam - success (+ value)

Sammie - success (+ value) 

Tronstad - success (+ value)

Brittain - on the whole a success, granted last month hasn't been great (= value)

Siggy - success (+ value)

Loans he has brought in have also been decent... Moran / Hill

Where has he failed so far...

Striker, not getting one at quality required, but was that his fault given budget?? You could argue he invested well in a  goalscorer with Sammie who is the top scorer in the league and a fraction of the cost of a decent striker?? 

Gk - again failed here, we needed an experienced guy for this position, its a high risk position and my view is this should always be an experienced man even if the quality is lower and have younger guy working through over time.

Also Broughton is responsible for bringing in JDT who has generally had a hugely positive impact.. we now have an identity playing some brilliant football (granted we need to solidify) but onnthe whole we are playing some exapnsive football, he has also made great progress with some of the players who have played the best football in their career under his watch (JRC, Wharton, Garrett).

Given our budget we can't afford dead certs, I think the egg has done a very very good job.

I think both him and JDT with a bit of support can get us in the top 10.

Its very difficult to judge the Egg given the circumstances. 

Last season he came in halfway through the summer window and January was a disaster but how much of that was down to him I'm not sure. Given the many other examples of the owners meddling in transfers, the most likely explanation is that they put a stop to the deals then the club started spinning a load of lies to cover this up.

This season the budget was slashed halfway through the window seemingly without warning. Ennis has been a poor signing so far but would he have been signed if we'd have known the financial constraints that would be imposed on us later on? We really need a proper striker. Not happening with our budget.

Leo is a development signing that's been thrown in at the deep end, we really need a proper number 1. Not going to happen on our budget. 

The Egg is a company man therefore will always come out with some good spin to try and paint this dog shit situation in a positive light.

I'll reserve full judgement until we have a proper transfer window but given its venkys fc who the fuck knows when that will ever happen.

[KentExile]

8 hours ago, Darwen Rover 007 said:

I often hear criticism of Broughton, personally I think he's done a very good job on the transfer front on the whole given the cash he has to work with.. he has brought in:

Hyam - success (+ value)

Sammie - success (+ value) 

Tronstad - success (+ value)

Brittain - on the whole a success, granted last month hasn't been great (= value)

Siggy - success (+ value)

Loans he has brought in have also been decent... Moran / Hill

Where has he failed so far...

Striker, not getting one at quality required, but was that his fault given budget?? You could argue he invested well in a  goalscorer with Sammie who is the top scorer in the league and a fraction of the cost of a decent striker?? 

Gk - again failed here, we needed an experienced guy for this position, its a high risk position and my view is this should always be an experienced man even if the quality is lower and have younger guy working through over time.

Also Broughton is responsible for bringing in JDT who has generally had a hugely positive impact.. we now have an identity playing some brilliant football (granted we need to solidify) but onnthe whole we are playing some exapnsive football, he has also made great progress with some of the players who have played the best football in their career under his watch (JRC, Wharton, Garrett).

Given our budget we can't afford dead certs, I think the egg has done a very very good job.

I think both him and JDT with a bit of support can get us in the top 10.

Also not forgetting the new, long term contracts for numerous players signed under his watch... even if we do include Phillips and his low release fee (which was considerably more than Rovers would have got if he had not signed the contract and left for a compensation fee instead)

Edited January 5 by KentExile

[philipl]

11 hours ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Benson's off to Hull according to reports. They have money. 

They got 20m for Lewis-Potter in the Summer so have no FFP issues

[Browjd]

8 hours ago, Darwen Rover 007 said:

I often hear criticism of Broughton, personally I think he's done a very good job on the transfer front on the whole given the cash he has to work with.. he has brought in:

Hyam - success (+ value)

Sammie - success (+ value) 

Tronstad - success (+ value)

Brittain - on the whole a success, granted last month hasn't been great (= value)

Siggy - success (+ value)

Loans he has brought in have also been decent... Moran / Hill

Where has he failed so far...

Striker, not getting one at quality required, but was that his fault given budget?? You could argue he invested well in a  goalscorer with Sammie who is the top scorer in the league and a fraction of the cost of a decent striker?? 

Gk - again failed here, we needed an experienced guy for this position, its a high risk position and my view is this should always be an experienced man even if the quality is lower and have younger guy working through over time.

Also Broughton is responsible for bringing in JDT who has generally had a hugely positive impact.. we now have an identity playing some brilliant football (granted we need to solidify) but onnthe whole we are playing some exapnsive football, he has also made great progress with some of the players who have played the best football in their career under his watch (JRC, Wharton, Garrett).

Given our budget we can't afford dead certs, I think the egg has done a very very good job.

I think both him and JDT with a bit of support can get us in the top 10.

I'm not sure there is much criticism for GB - seems a good appointment. It's the others around him...

[47er]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Has JDT played him as defensive midfielder this season?

Well you're the one rated Garret ahead of Travis in a list of midfielders. 4th or 5th you said  implying he's keeping Travis out and we don't need him anymore. I know Tronstadt is first choice in that position but isn't Travis 2nd in that position? Don't bother mentioning JRC for a while!

I'm arguing we do need him.

And if BRFC only makes good decisions why are we in the shit?

Edited January 5 by 47er

[KentExile]

6 minutes ago, 47er said:

Well you're the one who listed Garret higher than Travis which implies he's keeping Travis out?

As Garrett and Travis have both only played as box to box midfielders (or 8s if you prefer) this season that would still be the case.

We can agree or disagree with JDT that Travis and Garrett are best as defensive midfielders or box to box midfielders, but we surely cannot dispute that he has not played either of them as defensive midfielders this season.

Edited January 5 by KentExile

[47er]

1 minute ago, KentExile said:

As Garrett and Travis have both only played as box to box midfielders (or 8s if you prefer) this season that would still be the case.

We can agree or disagree with JDT that Travis and Garrett are best as defensive midfielders or box to box midfielders, but we surely cannot dispute that he has not played either of them as defensive midfielders this season.

I've amended my post above to make my point clearer!