That *was* the January Window

[Groundhog]

2 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Not sure Fleck will be all the tbh. Sounds like he's finished at any reasonable level. (Probably why Sheff Utd gave him to us)

If we're going to be negative, you're right Fleck is not the best of our signings this window, he's now injury prone BUT maybe, just maybe, he's been brought in to have a word in Garrett's ear when we're 1-0 with 5 mins to go on Saturday...

I don't know...people need to see the bigger picture. It's not a computer game, we need to shape a squad and provide some balance for our youth. If Fleck's experience gains us 3 points more this season, it could be vital.

[KentExile]

5 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Not sure Fleck will be all the tbh. Sounds like he's finished at any reasonable level. (Probably why Sheff Utd gave him to us)

I do wonder if both McFadzean and Fleck are seen as players who we can bring on in the last 20 mins or so to help us to see out games, rather than starters who we will be relying on to play 90 mins each week

[Hasta]

9 minutes ago, Groundhog said:

What a shit post. Go back to bed. Take your negativity somewhere else. God help us if the players read shit like this. Board is full of it. I despise Venkys and our CEO as much as the next person, but this stuff is uncalled for.

People hating on Gregg, he's bound by some severe restrictions and is as frustrated as us I can imagine, people want a scapegoat - he should not be the subject of your ire. 

Gregg :-

[Leonard Venkhater]

9 minutes ago, J*B said:

Is this me? I don’t think I’ve ever suggested anyone “is on a paid agreement to toe the Venkys party line” - can you show me where I said that? 

If so, for absolute clarity, I don’t think anyone at BBC Lancs, Andy Bayes or Elliott Jackson are being paid to say specific things. 

Of course not...but then I read..

" Adam Warton's rise offers opportunity to prove Blackburn Rovers model"

It really doesn't help...

[J*B]

5 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Of course not...but then I read..

" Adam Warton's rise offers opportunity to prove Blackburn Rovers model"

It really doesn't help...

I think that quote is true. If I was in charge I would have sold Adam for 22M+ as well.

Every other club that’s done what we are attempting has sold players at the right time for their maximum value. There is no point us having a 22M midfielder and gaping holes up front and in defence. The question is will we reinvest any of the money. Thats what I’ll judge them on. 

[RV Blue]

12 minutes ago, Groundhog said:

If we're going to be negative, you're right Fleck is not the best of our signings this window, he's now injury prone BUT maybe, just maybe, he's been brought in to have a word in Garrett's ear when we're 1-0 with 5 mins to go on Saturday...

I don't know...people need to see the bigger picture. It's not a computer game, we need to shape a squad and provide some balance for our youth. If Fleck's experience gains us 3 points more this season, it could be vital.

This suggests Garrett is a shoe in to play the full 90, which is simply not good enough at this level. We desperately needed first 11 quality players.

[Groundhog]

8 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Gregg :-

Yeah, well done mate, focusing on one transfer plus the usual media spiel that you have to put out. Doesn't support an argument in any form. 

It could have come off, it was a free - you could bring up Hirst as well, Ipswich fans seem to love him? Ennis might not have fit here, JDT seemed to dislike him from the offer. Might do well for Stoke, who knows? That's football.

 

 

[booth]

14 minutes ago, KentExile said:

I do wonder if both McFadzean and Fleck are seen as players who we can bring on in the last 20 mins or so to help us to see out games, rather than starters who we will be relying on to play 90 mins each week

That’s how I see it, but Fleck sounds like he’s finished. Be good if by some miracle he can stay free of injuries.

[DCU Rover]

Excited to see what McGuire does with Rovers, should start seeing more USMNT looks.  quick rise... college > USL2 > MLS > Championship....  hopefully can keep pushing on and not find himself in over his head.    Saw him play a few games against DC, he scored in both games from what I remember.  Absolutely gives it his all, a bit clumsy like others have pointed out but had a dangerous swagger to him while in the MLS.

Otherwise rough window, been following Rovers 20 years now, exhaustion has firmly set in.

[damo100]

47 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

This seasons Lewis O'Brien. 

We've royally fucked this up and now we are in a no win situation.

We've paid a "hefty" loan fee, so if the guy bombs, we've paid loads for a crap player and if he comes in and bangs in loads of goals, we've accepted a much higher permanent transfer fee, which we clearly can't afford.

Run by total clowns 🤡

Unless a fee has already been agreed with Orlando City.

[wilsdenrover]

56 minutes ago, RoverCanada said:

tldr: a fucking boring essay from that Canadian numbers nerd

While there are some... passionate/angry posters I generally scroll past and maybe don't see much point in debating on some matters, it's not hard to at least understand why they're so pissed off. I admittedly get caught up debating shades of grey, seeing some merit to our alleged model. etc, but the overall failure of Venky's ownership is a black-and-white issue.

For ~5-6 years, Venky's have funded a median-ish Championship wage bill (still less than half of parachute club wages!), which has kept us clear of relegation and on the edge of the playoffs a couple times. With our turnover, before player trading, that basically translates to an annual £20m operating loss. I won't say 'respected'... but that does need to be 'acknowledged'. Having owners that can stomach such losses separates us from Barnsley, Burton, Rotherham, Wigan, Wycombe, etc. (and Luton 🙂) in an ultimately unfair division.

However, this year's cashflow SNAFU highlights our fatally flawed ownership. What good is a rich, 'benevolent' owner if they can barely transfer the cash needed to fund those losses? Whatever the model, suddenly needing to cut our budget by 15% / risking transfers due to sudden cashflow issues ties the hands of any seemingly competent director (GB), alienates talented managers (JDT), and bewilders clubs / agents we deal with. Even if Venky's have done their best to pull financial / legal strings to keep funds flowing this year (23-24 accounts will be interesting reading), it all highlights the risks of having pseudo-oligarch-like owners...

Wharton's sale was sadly inevitable, which needs some acceptance. However, while there are risks to not cashing in with a decent offer on the table (see Dack), it's hard not to link selling now to this year's cashflow issues. Some of that may be bad luck (delayed Raya sell-on), but it's ridiculous if we've made that sale maybe a year early - with him signed to a long-term contract, happy to stay, possibly forgoeing an extra £5m as he develops, and meaning the contribution to our FFP window runs out in 25-26 rather than 26-27+ - because of cashflow issues due to our owner's legal issues.

It's also simply fucking sad that we only got 1.5 years to watch a homegrown prodigal talent.

Now, one way or another, we probably need average net sales of £5m per year if we want to maintain a median wage bill under FFP (as an aside, the sheer scale of sheer scale of the Brentford model needs to be acknowledged: their average player trading profit was £23m between 2016-21, capped by +£44m in their promotion year with the Watkins+Benhrama sales). Add in Raya sell-on, Kaminski, Phillips, I roughly calculate we have ~£12m of wages/fees to play with over the next couple years, but who knows what will happen if Venky's suddenly can only fund, say, £5-10m losses instead of £15-20m (with cuts to our wage bill having knock-on effects). At least GB has been proactive on contracts (getting that through Venky's heads is probably his greatest contribution; part of why I doubt our wage bill has dropped as much as some suspect), so we haven't quite sold the family silver.

- Sheffield Utd supporting mate says Fleck's pretty washed, but also thought he can probably still do a job in the Championship. For the sake of getting this year over the line, with McFadz, I think there is some sense in bringing in a couple experienced heads without committing to an Ayala-like deal, but something to revisit in the summer.

- Bit of a shame O'Riordan's signing has been so overshadowed, as that looks like a smart pick-up.

- Good that Vale and Bloxham got loans, but disappointing that we couldn't sort loans for Gilsenan, Batty, Markanday, and/or Leonard.

- McGuire's an interesting one as it's quite rare for an MLS draftee to excel like that. Possible we've caught him on a major upswing, but reason to be cautious. Loan-to-buy option lowers the risk (and amazing we've essentially funded that by shipping out Ennis) and maybe he will excel and we'll be happy to take up the option for £5m+ (sneer at MLS if you like, but it should be noted that (successful) £5-10m+ MLS sales aren't out of the norm these days), but if we apparently had to cancel a £3-4m deal to arrange that, it again highlights Venky's schizo funding.

Just on the bit I’ve emboldened.

Don’t the Venkys London accounts (to 31st March 2023) suggest our wage bill may well show an increase in the club’s next accounts (to 30th June 2023)?

Edited February 2 by wilsdenrover

[Herbie6590]

4 hours ago, RoverDom said:

You know what's going to happen with Mcguire don't you either 

1. Total flop

2. Scores 15+ between now and the end of the season but venkys refuse to release the funds to take up the option to buy. 

…or his agent now demands £100k per week…😆

[roversfan99]

41 minutes ago, Groundhog said:

What a shit post. Go back to bed. Take your negativity somewhere else. God help us if the players read shit like this. Board is full of it. I despise Venkys and our CEO as much as the next person, but this stuff is uncalled for.

People hating on Gregg, he's bound by some severe restrictions and is as frustrated as us I can imagine, people want a scapegoat - he should not be the subject of your ire. 

Do we need this "negativity" bashing in the absence of a more constructive argument?

Its an internet forum. If people are not happy with selling our main asset for a record fee and seeing none of it reinvested, they will understandably vent on here. We shouldnt censor ourselves in case any player (stupidly) comes looking.

[TugaysMarlboro]

So JDT not being allowed to talk to the media, enforced by the club.

It's likely Our manager thinks it's a joke what we've done in the transfer market, I can't think of any other obvious reason why they'd stop him committing to his duties.

It is startling that an outsider with no ties to the club apart from a pay packet, thinks we're being duped, and a large portion of fans don't.

[Groundhog]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Do we need this "negativity" bashing in the absence of a more constructive argument?

Its an internet forum. If people are not happy with selling our main asset for a record fee and seeing none of it reinvested, they will understandably vent on here. We shouldnt censor ourselves in case any player (stupidly) comes looking.

I was responding to some saying "Fleck is the only good signing." which is a separate issue altogether. In the circumstances you've got to hold onto something. Some of the negativity is totally OTT and uncalled for.

Venting like this actually encourages the apathy that is destroying the club, if some of this anger was bottled and let out on matchdays we might be able to force these cretins out.

Bashing the new players arriving into the club is not the "constructive argument" you refer to. 

Edited February 2 by Groundhog

[Exiled_Rover]

27 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

This suggests Garrett is a shoe in to play the full 90, which is simply not good enough at this level. We desperately needed first 11 quality players.

Garrett is the next one on the production line. This is the opportunity he's been waiting for.

Granted I still think he needs a season at L1 to mature, but evidently we're so short handed that we're not in the business of sending our fringe First XI Academy players out on loan at the moment. 

I think Fleck will be counted on to play serious minutes for the rest of the season. 

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, Groundhog said:

I was responding to some saying "Fleck is the only good signing." which is a separate issue altogether. In the circumstances you've got to hold onto something. Some of the negativity is totally OTT and uncalled for.

Venting like this actually encourages the apathy that is destroying the club, if some of this anger was bottled and let out on matchdays we might be able to force these cretins out.

Bashing the new players arriving into the club is not the "constructive argument" you refer to. 

Out of interest, if I said that I am really underwhelmed by some of the new signings, is that unwarranted bashing or fair?

[Exiled_Rover]

6 minutes ago, TugaysMarlboro said:

So JDT not being allowed to talk to the media, enforced by the club.

It's likely Our manager thinks it's a joke what we've done in the transfer market, I can't think of any other obvious reason why they'd stop him committing to his duties.

It is startling that an outsider with no ties to the club apart from a pay packet, thinks we're being duped, and a large portion of fans don't.

Maybe he simply doesn't want to field questions about the transfer window as "That's Gregg's job". 

He won't be happy about selling our best player and bringing in temporary solutions to tide us over until the summer though. Granted he won't be here for the rebuild. 

[RoverCanada]

16 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Just on the bit I’ve emboldened.

Don’t the Venkys London accounts (to 31st March 2023) suggest our wage bill may well show an increase in the club’s next accounts (to 30th June 2023)?

Yeah, looks like last year's wages were a bit higher, or at least around the same as previous years, despite the likes of Lenihan, Johnson, Nyambe, Rothwell, etc. leaving. Partly due to Hyam, Szmodics, and Brittain probably not being 'cheap', new contracts, and bonuses related to our cup runs + a decent league finish. Hence likely seeing similar losses in the 22-23 accounts!

Was more referring to this year, even despite the apparent sudden cuts and Brereton, Dack, and Ayala leaving. But it's anyone's guess. I'm certainly watching out for that... Can somewhat infer it from the funding Venky's was allowed to provide by the courts, but I'd be cautious about extrapolating that amount.

[Exiled_Rover]

10 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

…or his agent now demands £100k per week…😆

The future contract and future fee will have been agreed beforehand. 

[TugaysMarlboro]

1 minute ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Maybe he simply doesn't want to field questions about the transfer window as "That's Gregg's job". 

He won't be happy about selling our best player and bringing in temporary solutions to tide us over until the summer though. Granted he won't be here for the rebuild. 

The bit for me in Andy Bayes' statement is Club Decision.

 

I may be reading into it a bit much, but that doesn't read as though it's been a JDT only choice to not talk.

[Exiled_Rover]

Just now, RoverCanada said:

Yeah, looks like last year's wages were a bit higher, or at least around the same as previous years, despite the likes of Lenihan, Johnson, Nyambe, Rothwell, etc. leaving. Partly due to Hyam, Szmodics, and Brittain probably not being 'cheap', new contracts, and bonuses related to our cup runs + a decent league finish. Hence likely seeing similar losses in the 22-23 accounts!

Was more referring to this year, even despite the apparent sudden cuts and Brereton, Dack, and Ayala leaving. But it's anyone's guess. I'm certainly watching out for that... Can somewhat infer it from the funding Venky's was allowed to provide by the courts, but I'd be cautious about extrapolating that amount.

Sounds like there's some shady accounting going on then. 

[Groundhog]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Out of interest, if I said that I am really underwhelmed by some of the new signings, is that unwarranted bashing or fair?

No - that's your opinion presented in a slightly milder manner, and a lot, lot different than people writing the players off before a ball is kicked. 

I would say that "what did you expect?" Where you expecting to be overwhelmed? I doubt it. To play devil's advocate, the grass is always greener, and there'll be a lot of club's envious at our business. 

I know the club is at an all-time low, but christ no need to kick it down further. Again, save your ire for the fact our ticketing strategy is a mess, the ground is falling apart, the CEO is obsessed with a bus and we are always a few weeks away from total financial oblivion. 

 

[islander200]

6 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Sounds like there's some shady accounting going on then. 

Or us as fans are underestimating the cost of all the new contracts in the last 18 months.

Sigurrdson for example was on 18k a week at CSKA Moscow ,surely we won't have given him that much but he will be on at least 15k per week 

The lads who came up through the academy Carter, JRC etc would have had a big jump from the contracts they signed when breaking through to the first team 

[KentExile]

8 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Or us as fans are underestimating the cost of all the new contracts in the last 18 months.

Sigurrdson for example was on 18k a week at CSKA Moscow ,surely we won't have given him that much but he will be on at least 15k per week 

The lads who came up through the academy Carter, JRC etc would have had a big jump from the contracts they signed when breaking through to the first team 

Absolutely this,

Anyone who thinks that we have a squad of players who are each on less than 10K a week is very much mistaken

Edited February 2 by KentExile