v Preston North End (h) - 10/11/23

[tomphil]

  On 11/11/2023 at 09:26, Wheelton Blue said:

I think the corner drills are all about maintaining possesion.

As you say, the trouble is - and we saw this a couple of times last night - is that we end up with 3 players around the ball near the corner flag, we go and lose it, the opposition breaks quickly, and we're caught on the hop with said players out of position.

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Too frightened to take a proper corner because we don't want to lose the ball just says it all really. JDT always bangs on about being brave yet that is cowards football.

I was going to add if it's all about possession just pass it back we've seen that done plenty under the last guy but we didn't need to take another 1 or 2 players down into the corner as well only to go nowhere.

[jim mk2]

  On 11/11/2023 at 09:25, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The culture at the top of the club isn’t right. There is no real pressure on results from the owners. We don’t have enough players with a winning mentality. We retreat into the last third of the pitch too easily. We lack the courage to keep playing a “ normal ” game and persist in dropping back. I got told as a young player - “ You can defend your own half for a long while, you can defend the penalty area for a short while, but when you try to defend the six yard box for any length of time you’re in trouble “ .

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All true but you have to look at the nature of the players too. It’s been said before but Tomasson has a load of “nice” lads playing for him and the same was true under Mowbray

Many of these Championship teams have tough battlers who love a muck and nettles scrap and it seems to me our lads often get bullied and retreat into their shells when the going gets tough and the chips are down - like in the last 10 minutes of matches 

[Waggy76]

  On 11/11/2023 at 09:17, Moptop1 said:

We will always be a nearly team under these owners, as every year they will sell players and we have to rebuild. So, it will be starting again every season. They just want us selling players and making money. Totally Groundhog Day.

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We wont be a nearly team with these owners , we will be a Division one team next season or the season after !

Something as to change and bloody quickly ...

[Penwortham Blue]

  On 11/11/2023 at 01:45, JHRover said:

All going to plan really. A small, inexperienced group of nice lads playing the game the 'right way'. Plenty of stats to circulate about 'average age' and 'number of academy graduates' and 'nice football' but fundamentally the name of the game is winning matches, especially at home in circumstances like tonight.

The 'powers that be' will probably be quite happy with tonight, telling themselves we were unfortunate or hard done to but in reality the main reason we lost was down to inexperience and a lack of depth. Two issues that have plagued us for a while and were exacerbated by the abysmal summer delivered by the owners.

One look at tonights bench tells me we have a serious problem.

One look at the subs being made by the two teams with 10-15 minutes remaining at 1-1 tells me we have serious problems. 

PNE make changes bringing on journeymen players who turn the game in their favour. We make changes bringing on teenagers with no experience and lose the game from a dominant position.

This isn't due to freak circumstances, it is due to budget cuts imposed upstairs.

I don't blame JDT at all. The bloke is working miracles with what he has been given.

Waggott will be tucked up in bed happy at the night's work coining in 15000 matchday tickets without a care in the world.

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Nailed it. With the squad available to him, I think we would be dead and buried without JDT.

[Upside Down]

  On 11/11/2023 at 09:42, Waggy76 said:

We wont be a nearly team with these owners , we will be a Division one team next season or the season after !

Something as to change and bloody quickly ...

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Nah, we'll just be Championship plodders for ever and ever.

[tomphil]

  On 11/11/2023 at 09:47, Upside Down said:

Nah, we'll just be Championship plodders for ever and ever.

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If the finance has dried up for whatever reason but these lot cling on then for sure there'll be another trip down there before long.

[Roverthechimp]

Enjoyed watching us play / the game but hate losing. 
Don’t watch too often but was impressed overall given the players available.

Also impressed with how both Dolan and Moran saw and executed some killer passes.

At 1-1 I was struggling to think of a change that wouldn’t weaken the team and disrupt our “flow” even though I like Leonard as a player.

TLDR good football, shit defending and weak bench.
 

Blame the bus not the coach 😉

[Penwortham Blue]

  On 11/11/2023 at 07:38, AllRoverAsia said:

I stopped watching after Preston scored late on.

I knew how we would see the game out and didn't want to lose the will to live.

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I was at the match and didn’t see the goal as I had the cap over my eyes, I just knew how it was going to end. 

[den]

  On 11/11/2023 at 09:41, jim mk2 said:

All true but you have to look at the nature of the players too. It’s been said before but Tomasson has a load of “nice” lads playing for him and the same was true under Mowbray

Many of these Championship teams have tough battlers who love a muck and nettles scrap and it seems to me our lads often get bullied and retreat into their shells when the going gets tough and the chips are down - like in the last 10 minutes of matches 

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Harsh Jim. 
 

Rovers are playing possibly the best football outside the PL. I can’t remember the last time it was as good as we’re seeing now. We don’t want to lose that do we? We want to build on it surely.
 

what needs to happen is that those above JDT need to realise what we have and give him what he needs.

[AllRoverAsia]

  On 11/11/2023 at 09:53, Penwortham Blue said:

I was at the match and didn’t see the goal as I had the cap over my eyes, I just knew how it was going to end. 

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I feel for you, at least I could go on YouTube and watch an old Western to see some good shots lol

[AllRoverAsia]

  On 11/11/2023 at 09:12, tomphil said:

The corner routine is embarrassing now we even have other teams fans laughing at it when they see it on the box.  It takes 3 players down in to the corner to do what ?

Draw the opposition over ?   Yet we have no one on the edge of the area and no one of any presence in the box even on the very rare occasion in might get crossed in.  It's one of those routines that will work maybe once or twice a season at very best.  It'll also as many times lead is to be countered and losing a goal.

A standard corner routine will have a higher success rate even for lightweights like us.

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We do have a couple of reasonably tall lads, get it across to them on corners, even occasionally to mix it up.

[jim mk2]

  On 11/11/2023 at 09:58, den said:

Harsh Jim. 
 

Rovers are playing possibly the best football outside the PL. I can’t remember the last time it was as good as we’re seeing now. We don’t want to lose that do we? We want to build on it surely.
 

what needs to happen is that those above JDT need to realise what we have and give him what he needs.

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So why do we keep conceding late goals Den? Tony’s teams did it too. We’re such a small side, we get bullied too much. Potts is my type of player, big, fast, strong. Moran (not for the first time) couldn’t cope with him.
 

I agree we’re good to watch but we’ve no steel running through the team. We’ve lost 5 at home - and it’s only November. I’d say opposition managers have worked us out. Basically we’re a soft touch 

Edited November 11, 2023 by jim mk2

[rigger]

JDT seems to be a perfectionist rather than a winner. A bit like Keegans Newcastle, great to watch but win sod all.

[Waggy76]

  On 11/11/2023 at 09:58, den said:

Harsh Jim. 
 

Rovers are playing possibly the best football outside the PL. I can’t remember the last time it was as good as we’re seeing now. We don’t want to lose that do we? We want to build on it surely.
 

what needs to happen is that those above JDT need to realise what we have and give him what he needs.

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Each to their own , I dont go away anymore so cant comment on those games...

Last night was our 5th defeat at home this season and its only November ..

Worrying stat !

[tomphil]

  On 11/11/2023 at 09:58, den said:

Harsh Jim. 
 

Rovers are playing possibly the best football outside the PL. I can’t remember the last time it was as good as we’re seeing now. We don’t want to lose that do we? We want to build on it surely.
 

what needs to happen is that those above JDT need to realise what we have and give him what he needs.

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If we put a couple of PNE's bruisers in our side we'd finish top 6 iv'e no doubts and if you sprinkled some of our best players and football style into their team it would challenge the top 3 come May.

Sadly it's a tale of two opposites but if you want to grind your way into the play offs in this league you need substance over style.

Which is them not us.

[ABBEY]

  On 11/11/2023 at 09:58, den said:

Harsh Jim. 
 

Rovers are playing possibly the best football outside the PL. I can’t remember the last time it was as good as we’re seeing now. We don’t want to lose that do we? We want to build on it surely.
 

what needs to happen is that those above JDT need to realise what we have and give him what he needs.

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10 teams possibly 15 teams above say tippy tippy ain't working.  Give him what he needs yes but the lunes wont. It ain't harsh we got bullied and nastied to another Derby defeat

[Crimpshrine]

  On 11/11/2023 at 08:39, arbitro said:

For last night's match we were missing Pears, JRC, Hyam, Carter, Pickering, Hedges and Gallagher. That's seven players who would all potentially have started last night. If you take seven key players out of any squad it will have a massive effect.

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None of them a vast improvement on the players who were available last night. We have a squad full of mediocre players

[arbitro]

  On 11/11/2023 at 10:28, Crimpshrine said:

None of them a vast improvement on the players who were available last night. We have a squad full of mediocre players

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The squad would have been strengthened massively had those injured players been available. How many first team appearances did the bench have in total between them?  I'd hazard a guess at less than thirty.

[aletheia]

Plenty of heat in the posts last night J

I liked these 4 posts:-

I'll just add, I love watching this side, I don't like seeing us get beat, but they're an exciting side to watch and this manager is special, can we keep him....

I thought we were really impressive tonight with so many players out injured. 

All we are missing is owners that will back the club.

We will always be a nearly team under these owners

Total frustration isn't it...just rinse and repeat Season after Season.No expectation,no pressure on anyone for promotion.

 

Very disappointing for the lads –thought they played some outstanding slick stuff. Moran’s through ball for the goal was a delight. Pity we didn’t take the 2 chances just after our goal. Sammie had an easier one than the one he scored but his shot had no conviction (knackered?) and was it Moran who tried to hit it first time?

A thin squad and injuries are the issue which lead back to recruitment and the lunes in Pune. The manager deserves better and is working in the face of severe headwinds.

As to this stuff about banging it forward. Really, so that Sammie or Dolan can win an easy header against the Whiteman lump? The only way we can play in that style is if we buy and bring through the academy strength over skill. Obviously, the best teams have a combination of physicality and skill. I think I can remember one long ball and it came back straight away to put us under pressure.

Agreed on corners. No problem with some short ones but you have to vary it.

On crosses. It’s obvious they are under instructions not to cross but to work it. Again, I get the logic (no natural centre forward –thank V.s) but we could also vary it - I do think we should get it in early for near post runners where size might not matter as much.

I’m surprised they and other teams don’t go longer against us- we are susceptible to an early direct ball through the middle and crosses, particularly with injuries.

Dolan has taken some stick on here. Earlier in the season I suggested he had been trained well and was learning. Remember that “head down, I’ll take you all on but then lose it” style he had under Mowbray? Now keeps it simple –receives it, gives it, keeps the play moving. He would never have scored the goal against Norwich under Mowbray. Still has his limitations but think he is much improved.

But ultimately, although it all hurts, are we really surprised given the agenda off the field?

[arbitro]

  On 11/11/2023 at 10:35, aletheia said:

Plenty of heat in the posts last night J

 

I liked these 4 posts:-

 

I'll just add, I love watching this side, I don't like seeing us get beat, but they're an exciting side to watch and this manager is special, can we keep him....

 

I thought we were really impressive tonight with so many players out injured. 

 

All we are missing is owners that will back the club.

We will always be a nearly team under these owners

Total frustration isn't it...just rinse and repeat Season after Season.No expectation,no pressure on anyone for promotion.

 

 

 

Very disappointing for the lads –thought they played some outstanding slick stuff. Moran’s through ball for the goal was a delight. Pity we didn’t take the 2 chances just after our goal. Sammie had an easier one than the one he scored but his shot had no conviction (knackered?) and was it Moran who tried to hit it first time?

A thin squad and injuries are the issue which lead back to recruitment and the lunes in Pune. The manager deserves better and is working in the face of severe headwinds.

 

As to this stuff about banging it forward. Really, so that Sammie or Dolan can win an easy header against the Whiteman lump? The only way we can play in that style is if we buy and bring through the academy strength over skill. Obviously, the best teams have a combination of physicality and skill. I think I can remember one long ball and it came back straight away to put us under pressure.

Agreed on corners. No problem with some short ones but you have to vary it.

On crosses. It’s obvious they are under instructions not to cross but to work it. Again, I get the logic (no natural centre forward –thank V.s) but we could also vary it - I do think we should get it in early for near post runners where size might not matter as much.

I’m surprised they and other teams don’t go longer against us- we are susceptible to an early direct ball through the middle and crosses, particularly with injuries.

Dolan has taken some stick on here. Earlier in the season I suggested he had been trained well and was learning. Remember that “head down, I’ll take you all on but then lose it” style he had under Mowbray? Now keeps it simple –receives it, gives it, keeps the play moving. He would never have scored the goal against Norwich under Mowbray. Still has his limitations but think he is much improved.

But ultimately, although it all hurts, are we really surprised given the agenda off the field?

 

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A very good, rational post.

[47er]

 We all know why.

[tomphil]

Taking Dolan off last night was one of the daftest things iv'e seen JDT do there was no need for it at all.

[Sweaty Gussets]

  On 11/11/2023 at 10:35, aletheia said:

As to this stuff about banging it forward. Really, so that Sammie or Dolan can win an easy header against the Whiteman lump? The only way we can play in that style is if we buy and bring through the academy strength over skill. Obviously, the best teams have a combination of physicality and skill. I think I can remember one long ball and it came back straight away to put us under pressure.

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Well said. Lots of delusional posts about 'Big Sam' football with the squad we've got, and delusional posts in general about getting a 'Souey' type manager back in cos he'd get us promoted ffs! Souey had the best squad in the Championship, I'm pretty sure JDT would get us promoted with Duff, Dunn, Jansen, Short, Berg, Friedel, Hignett, Berkovic etc

We are now back to pre-1992 as a football club (with a slighter bigger fanbase and a far bigger wage bill). Problem is most teams in this division now have more money than us. Back in pre-1992 finances in the old Div 2 were more equal.

We play the best football in the league IMO, with a team of Academy graduates, free transfers,  loans.  We only paid fees for 3 of the starting XI last night (CB, SS and LW). That's where we are as a club. 

We also had 7 first teamers missing last night, and at the very least should have got a point. 

If people think we're going to start playing percentages and flying into the play-offs they really are delusional. 

I think JDT is a fantastic manager, learning as he goes and adapting best he can. The problems are above him, as any rational person would acknowledge. 

 

[roverandout]

If we had a proper striker and a decent keeper we'd be top 6 no doubt 

[JamieUK]

Approximate starting appearances in the Championship for the team last night - tells it's own story, especially the bench.

7 - Wahlstedt
56 - S Wharton
7 - Hill
170 - Travis
27 - Brittain (+37 for Barnsley)
43 - Szmodics (+40 for Peterborough/Bristol)
7 - Moran
7 - Sigurdsson
23 - A Wharton
7 - Tronstad
63 - Dolan

0 - Hilton
0 - Atcheson
0 - Gamble
0 - Batty
4 - Garrett
6 - Leonard
5 - Markanday
0 - Ennis
0 - Telalovic