v Watford (h) 23/12/23

[wilsdenrover]

40 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

This season…

Scored first = 9 wins and 2 defeats (scored 24 conceded 10)

Conceded first = 1 win 1 draw 10 defeats (scored 11 conceded 30)

Last season…

Scored first = 19 wins 4 draws 2 defeats (scored 39 conceded 14)

Conceded first = 1 win 3 draws 15 defeats (scored 13 conceded 40)

So under JDT:

88/108 points when scored first

10/93 points when conceded first

Edited December 24, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[Sweaty Gussets]

29 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

As my mum says - “ What can’t speak can’t lie “. Those stats speak volumes about our mentality.

In fairness most clubs in the Championship will have similar records. 

If you score first in this league you have a very good chance of not losing. 

[Rogerb]

So in effect the Watford result is very much against the trend

[wilsdenrover]

1 hour ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

In fairness most clubs in the Championship will have similar records. 

If you score first in this league you have a very good chance of not losing. 

This season…

[Sweaty Gussets]

15 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

This season…

A few outliers at the bottom but, yeah, score first and you're not going to lose. 

[47er]

10 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

It's the same story every chuffin' game.

Our ability to see games out is none existant, it's sh!t or bust.

Tomasson needs to learn to take a draw, but I don't think it's in him.

I must say Shearer's criticism of "fatigue" in modern players raised my eyebrows. In his day with only 2 subs, players paced themselves because they were down to play for 90 minutes.

Subs were not so much a  tactical move then but more to cover injury.

Now players go all out knowing that the manager can change half the side. Moreover he's not likely to replace his keeper and his centre-backs for tiredness, its the mid-field and strikers who most likely tire.

And we don't have that option for reasons we all know. That puts us at a disadvantage compared with other sides and, imo accounts for the fact that we concede so many late goals.  

Often after missing enough chances to go clear because we didn't sign a striker worthy of the name.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

13 minutes ago, 47er said:

I must say Shearer's criticism of "fatigue" in modern players raised my eyebrows. In his day with only 2 subs, players paced themselves because they were down to play for 90 minutes.

Subs were not so much a  tactical move then but more to cover injury.

Now players go all out knowing that the manager can change half the side. Moreover he's not likely to replace his keeper and his centre-backs for tiredness, its the mid-field and strikers who most likely tire.

And we don't have that option for reasons we all know. That puts us at a disadvantage compared with other sides and, imo accounts for the fact that we concede so many late goals.  

Often after missing enough chances to go clear because we didn't sign a striker worthy of the name.

Got our problem in one.

[jim mk2]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

That's your opinion and my opinion is very different to yours. 

Ok, say Rovers somehow got promoted this season, or won the FA Cup. How would you describe Tomasson’s work then?

You can’t say it’s brilliant because you’ve already said he’s doing a brilliant job having us in mid table

The problem with using superlatives such as brilliant to describe something that’s very ordinary is that you’ve no word to use to describe genuine brilliance.

 

[philipl]

 

[AllRoverAsia]

36 minutes ago, philipl said:

 

That's precisely as I saw it and posted same.

The ref allowed himself to be conned by Hamer or simply went chicken, possibly a bit of both as he displayed Watford bias also at other times like booking Garrett.

[jodrell]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

 

What is the point of the line's man or whatever they're called? He had a perfect view of the incident and did nothing. I'm convinced the ref was conned Hamer fumbled the ball and hit him in the face and made a meal of it.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

1 hour ago, jodrell said:

What is the point of the line's man or whatever they're called? He had a perfect view of the incident and did nothing. I'm convinced the ref was conned Hamer fumbled the ball and hit him in the face and made a meal of it.

The ref made all the calls all the game, even throw ins. The assistant running the Riverside did not raise his flag all game until after the ref made the call. The bloke in front of me, I can only presume was his dad, tried defending him but there was no defence.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Regarding Leo, all I say is fair play to Watford. Once they brought the subs on, they targeted Leo. They suspected he couldn't handle being targeted and they were right. Once he was hit hard, which there forward picked a booking up, he became hesitant which IMO effected Leo.

Earlier in the game he caught crosses but once he was hit he returned to how was earlier in the season and started flapping at crosses and pushed the ball back into play rather than concentrating on what he was doing he was fearful of being hit again. Hopefully he will toughen up or opposition managers will target him all the games.

Yet again a hard man centre half like Kevin Moran would offer him protection but the whole team is a soft touch all over the pitch. 

Even though the ref made a truly terrible decision for the disallowed goal, he was playing the rule of probability that there were contact. If Leonard hadn't jumped the keeper would have made contact with him giving the ref an even harder decision as the probability rules would be that the keeper has blocked teh forward. Another reason Leonard shouldn't have jumped he should have been more agressive and let the keeper know he is there. There keeper looked shakey as well.

Edited December 25, 2023 by dingles staying down 4ever

[Torgeir]

On 24/12/2023 at 00:27, rigger said:

I don't think the squad is stretched, what it is missing is a killer instinct.

 

Szmodics probably the only one with killer instinct in our squad, so I agree to some part. But players can impact both ways. At 75 mins some of our players looked knackered and there wasn't much quality to replace tired legs. When trying to respond to their goal(s), Markanday was our only option and I think most of us can agree now that he doesn't have what it takes.

I hope we bring in a defender and striker in January, I would push the pram out for the latter if I was GB/JDT. 

 

Edit: Sigurdsson is a good finisher as well.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Torgeir
Added content

[Torgeir]

10 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Regarding Leo, all I say is fair play to Watford. Once they brought the subs on, they targeted Leo. They suspected he couldn't handle being targeted and they were right. Once he was hit hard, which there forward picked a booking up, he became hesitant which IMO effected Leo.

Earlier in the game he caught crosses but once he was hit he returned to how was earlier in the season and started flapping at crosses and pushed the ball back into play rather than concentrating on what he was doing he was fearful of being hit again. Hopefully he will toughen up or opposition managers will target him all the games.

Yet again a hard man centre half like Kevin Moran would offer him protection but the whole team is a soft touch all over the pitch. 

Even though the ref made a truly terrible decision for the disallowed goal, he was playing the rule of probability that there were contact. If Leonard hadn't jumped the keeper would have made contact with him giving the ref an even harder decision as the probability rules would be that the keeper has blocked teh forward. Another reason Leonard shouldn't have jumped he should have been more agressive and let the keeper know he is there. There keeper looked shakey as well.

Wahlstedt has to work on a few things in order to become as good as some of his predecessors. Distribution, placement, bravery and also gives too many rebounds for my liking. I think he can collect more corners/crosses than he does but he always chooses the 'safe route', the same goes for some of his shot stopping. Think he had a decent game though, just not quite ready yet. Kaminski also gave away some similar goals to what Leo has done, but shut shop on a regular basis too. Healey should have been offside if our defenders did their job though... Will be good to get Hyam back as a leader in the back.

[Hasta]

Just watched the highlights as I wasnt in the mood after the day after game. I knew Leo was at fault from watching it live, but they're both worse mistakes than I thought. The first one actually gets pushed almost centrally, and he's under no pressure for the second one.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Hasta

[rigger]

8 minutes ago, Torgeir said:

Szmodics probably the only one with killer instinct in our squad, so I agree to some part. But players can impact both ways. At 75 mins some of our players looked knackered and there wasn't much quality to replace tired legs. When trying to respond to their goal(s), Markanday was our only option and I think most of us can agree now that he doesn't have what it takes.

I hope we bring in a defender and striker in January, I would push the pram out for the latter if I was GB/JDT. 

I slightly disagree about Markanday, his best position in my opinion is the same one Szmodic and Moran play, so when he is picked, he is out of position. I don't know if JDT will want the type of striker that we will attract, as they would not be able to cope with the type of game JDT prefers his strikers to play. 

[BlackburnEnd75]

2 hours ago, rigger said:

I slightly disagree about Markanday, his best position in my opinion is the same one Szmodic and Moran play, so when he is picked, he is out of position. I don't know if JDT will want the type of striker that we will attract, as they would not be able to cope with the type of game JDT prefers his strikers to play. 

Has markanday ever played for us as a no.10? I don't think you can say it's his best position if he never plays there.

[rigger]

2 hours ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

Has markanday ever played for us as a no.10? I don't think you can say it's his best position if he never plays there.

He has played for the U23s, when he has drifted inside, that is when he has looked at his most dangerous. By the way, I can say my opinion at any time, as it is usually an opinion formed of what I have seen first hand. 

[Mattyblue]

You seem to be very pro Markanday who’s done bugger all in his time here, yet constantly stating how Dolan’s out of his depth despite achieving far more here (and he’s younger).

[47er]

 I've seen nothing to suggest Markandy is a Championship player.

Given his limited appearances it appears JDT thinks the same.

[chaddyrovers]

16 hours ago, rigger said:

I slightly disagree about Markanday, his best position in my opinion is the same one Szmodic and Moran play, so when he is picked, he is out of position. I don't know if JDT will want the type of striker that we will attract, as they would not be able to cope with the type of game JDT prefers his strikers to play. 

Markanday isn't a number 10. Not good enough to play the 10 role how Szmodics and Moran. 

How many times has he play there under JDT? 

his position is playing from wide right role.

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

You seem to be very pro Markanday who’s done bugger all in his time here, yet constantly stating how Dolan’s out of his depth despite achieving far more here (and he’s younger).

I have never said that I think Markanday is good enough for our first team. What I have said is that I think his best position is as a central forward. If I had to judge, I would say both Markanday and Dolan should be nowhere near our first team. Their favoured positions are both taken by better players. So because of injuries they are being played out of position and above their level.

[Mattyblue]

Dolan is an important member of the squad and has contributed from day one. So should very much be near the first team. Markanday has contributed nowt from day one.

Not remotely comparable when it comes to impact.
 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Mattyblue

[rigger]

11 minutes ago, 47er said:

 I've seen nothing to suggest Markandy is a Championship player.

Given his limited appearances it appears JDT thinks the same.

Playing as a winger Markanday was lucky to keep his U23s place last season.