v Huddersfield Town (h) - 20/01/2024

[wilsdenrover]

2 minutes ago, LDRover said:

Sorry mate, these stats are irrelevant when you compare them with Kaminski saying he was a great bloke.

Benson and Pongo Lowe, the Morecambe and Wise of football coaching.

Sorry, I forgot that inane platitudes are more important 😁

[roversfan99]

Set pieces are always reflective of coaching on the training ground. Those numbers do not reflect well on Tomasson at all.

[LDRover]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Set pieces are always reflective of coaching on the training ground. Those numbers do not reflect well on Tomasson at all.

Agreed.

But they reflect worse on the 'set piece coach'

[Waggy76]

2 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

Lose to them in our next league game and I will start to get concerned.

Huddersfield, Stoke and Milwall are all dreadful too though.

 

Yes but are their respective managers crap ? 

Who will twist and who will stick 

If Allardyce & Warnock were appointed to two of the clubs below us , we would be in panic station Zebra ....

Personally, I think the cushion will just keep us up..But it will be scary !

[booth]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Of course there’s loads of shite stealing a living at all levels at this club  - but it is these owners that keep these incompetents in position indefinitely.

Invested owners would never have appointed a Waggott to a CEO position or at least they’d have had him out the door years ago, but in reality he’ll go when he fancies after cleaning the fools out for even more ill gotten dosh. Same goes for the fact they’ve sacked one manager in 8 years and this one won’t be either, he’ll go when he’s had enough or someone offers him a life raft. Not normal, not healthy.

Their very detachment is a major part of why we are in this mess 

They are detached and disinterested but at the same time phoning in interference for their underlings to carry out.

[wilsdenrover]

7 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Yes but are their respective managers crap ? 

Who will twist and who will stick 

If Allardyce & Warnock were appointed to two of the clubs below us , we would be in panic station Zebra ....

Personally, I think the cushion will just keep us up..But it will be scary !

Every club below us has already replaced their manager this season.

[booth]

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

Ok until they equalised, and then we shrank. Following their equaliser we should really have lost based on Huddersfield having the best 3 chances. 
 

Important point, but worrying.

 

We shrank before that, that’s why they equalised. Bizarre that team morale and energy just dropped when Carter got injured.

[had.e.nuff]

52 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

We’ve conceded more set piece goals (12) than any other team 

Only QPR (2) have scored fewer set piece goals than us (3).

 

I am starting to think that we dont practice defending balls into the box from free kicks and corners because we dont put the ball in when we take them

[roversinmyblood]

26 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Yes but are their respective managers crap ? 

Who will twist and who will stick 

If Allardyce & Warnock were appointed to two of the clubs below us , we would be in panic station Zebra ....

Personally, I think the cushion will just keep us up..But it will be scary !

How ironic would it be if they sacked JDT and hired big Sam. 

[wilsdenrover]

3 minutes ago, roversinmyblood said:

How ironic would it be if they sacked JDT and hired big Sam. 

I imagine any approach would be met with…

[Blue blood]

44 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Why are you so fixated with a transfer from 4 and a half years ago?

Mowbray signed 3 strikers in 12 months for a combined 15m. The money overall IMO was well spent, one scored loads and generated a massive profit that wasnt reinvested. Another scored loads and should have generated another big fee but said owners stopped it. The third was undoubtedly overpriced, hardly a total failure as an average Championship striker but not worth that fee.

You have ignored my post explaining how they have not funded a reasonable fee for a striker since despite selling Armstrong and blocking the potential for further fees for Brereton and Rothwell that have raised over 10m but should have raised over 20m.

We shouldnt (and arent because of that one deal) be hamstrung because a signing we made 5 years ago hasnt been an unqualified success.

Agree with your latter point. 

Strongly disagree on your point that the 15 million was well spent. 

Armstrong yes, Gally clearly no - that amount for us was huge and has hardly had a significant (if an OK impact.) Contrast it with what happened last time we spent that much- Sami and Hyam and you see its a poor use of the money. 

Brereton is imo similar in that the massive amount didn't yield enough success to warrant such a big fee. Granted its not as big a botch as Gally but its still poor. He did nothing for 2 seasons, which is a huge expensive waste. He then had a couple of OK seasons sandwiched between an excellent one. That's solid but given how huge an outlay 7 million is for us (and is now a pipe dream) you feel we could have used the money better. 

Of course letting him go on a free sours my view as well, albeit that's nor on the player. Not that we would reinvest it anyway - bringing us back to poor deals but utterly moronic owners. 

[DE.]

20 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Every club below us has already replaced their manager this season.

Indeed so!

Millwall - Gary Rowett > Joe Edwards

Stoke - Alex Neil > Steven Schumacher

Birmingham - John Eustace > Wayne Rooney > Tony Mowbray

Huddersfield - Neil Warnock > Darren Moore

QPR - Gareth Ainsworth > Marti Cifuentes

Sheffield Wednesday - Xisco Munoz > Danny Rohl

Rotherham - Matt Taylor > Leam Richardson

Three of the four teams now above us have also changed managers.

Swansea - Michael Duff > Luke Williams

Plymouth - Steven Schumacher > Ian Foster (enforced change due to SS leaving for Stoke)

Bristol City - Nigel Pearson > Liam Manning

From 13th downwards, only JDT and Erol Bulut of Cardiff remain in post since the start of the season, but Bulut has said after Cardiff's defeat today that he will consider leaving if he isn't backed with signings in this window. 

"From my side I can tell you that some things have to change. If not, [it is] not possible to continue like that," he told BBC Radio Wales Sport.

When asked, 'what has to change?' he replied: "Everything."

Bulut says he will have discussions with the Cardiff board and seek assurances signings are coming, but says the Bluebirds will struggle without reinforcements.

"I will speak to the board clearly about everything that has to change," he said.

"We now have two weeks until the next game and I think from now everything can change.

"I don't know about signings. I spoke about that. We are too late with many things.

"We tried to change many things, but alone you cannot do nothing.

"So we have to make many changes and if this is not changing, we will have big problems until the end of the season.

"Everyone knows (we need players), I know it, the board knows it, the fans know it, all of us, we know it.

"We have worked hard to come to this position… until now we've only been three points off the play-offs, but now we cannot speak about the play-offs, now we must speak about different things.

"If we don't get signings? We will have to fight with what we have, but we will have hard weeks and months in front of us."

Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Anyway, should Bulut depart Cardiff then that would leave JDT as the only manager still in charge from the start of the season of all teams from 13th downwards.

 

[booth]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

No I wouldn't say it is. The owners are shit. They fucked up again. If the manager fails, he was ultimately appointed by the owners and those hired by the owners. If the players aren't good enough, they're the ones the owners signed off on, people the owners appointed scouted and selected, and the owners haven't provided the funding to recruit the better ones we need (or even the numbers, really).

It's entirely congruous to blame all parties, as long as the acknowledgement is made that the owners are the ultimate responsible party for this clusterfuck.

But no it's not a contradiction to see more than one party has flaws, it's just looking at the full picture. I'd argue JDT is less culpable for his failings due to the lack of support in the transfer market of course. His champagne style is being completely undermined - but he has also lacked the tactical acumen to shore up the side of late by using a different style. Today might have been the first shoots of addressing that, even though it only yielded a point.

But the other point you make (no coach could work under this restrictions, but JDT should go) is a bit of a contradiction, not entirely though. For example, it could be someone thinks no manager can bring proper success working under this, but there may be another manager who could achieve better results (ie 12th place rather than what's turning into a relegation fight). Especially since there are signs the players' and manager's heads have dropped. Oftentimes a change sparks a honeymoon period which might at least be enough to make sure we stay up. I'm not advocating that yet, but one can make the argument without it being a contradiction. It's a contradiction if you think the whole reason JDT isn't succeeding is the owners, yet want him to go, but not if you see other issues with him whereby you think another manager could do better (but still not get in the playoffs) under this wanktacular regime.

I think you’re talking about reasonable people. I’m on about the people who are laying the blame entirely at the head coaches door, but before the match saying anyone will fail at this circus. If that’s true then why be surprised when we drop points?

It doesn’t matter who the coach or manager is, it’ll never work.

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Agree with your latter point. 

Strongly disagree on your point that the 15 million was well spent. 

Armstrong yes, Gally clearly no - that amount for us was huge and has hardly had a significant (if an OK impact.) Contrast it with what happened last time we spent that much- Sami and Hyam and you see its a poor use of the money. 

Brereton is imo similar in that the massive amount didn't yield enough success to warrant such a big fee. Granted its not as big a botch as Gally but its still poor. He did nothing for 2 seasons, which is a huge expensive waste. He then had a couple of OK seasons sandwiched between an excellent one. That's solid but given how huge an outlay 7 million is for us (and is now a pipe dream) you feel we could have used the money better. 

Of course letting him go on a free sours my view as well, albeit that's nor on the player. Not that we would reinvest it anyway - bringing us back to poor deals but utterly moronic owners. 

It would have been well spent had the owners not blocked the potential sale last summer. Had we brought in 8 million or whatever it was, it would have meant that we had brought in a profit on the three as well as having loads of goals in the process. 

Brereton had 2 awful seasons, one decent one and then 2 in which he scored a combined 37 goals in 2 seasons, making him far and away our top scorer and right up there with Championship goalscorers across those 2 years. Armstrong obviously also scored lots of goals for us and made a big profit, his fee covering the 3 fees combined before Newcastles cut. And no team gets recruitment bang on, but if you are bringing in 20m+ for 2 of the 3, which we would without moronic owners as you say, you can afford to swallow up the third who wasnt as successful. And its not like Gallagher has been a total waste of time who scored 1 or 2 goals, he has contributed in his time albeit certainly not for the value of the fee paid.

Couldnt agree more on the owners being moronic. Ultimately if they had cashed in on Brereton, which they had to, and also had stuck to a model of buying, selling at profit after the individuals did a good job for us and then reinvesting, then they would have been well in line with such a model. As it is, they have a model of sometimes interfering and stopping the income entirely, or just not reinvesting sales at all even when they do come in. End result, the mess we are in today.

[Parsonblue]

Another hugely disappointing home performance.  Whilst I've enjoyed JDT's football over the course of the season, recent weeks have seen a number of baffling decisions.  However, taking Chrisene off, a player who was signed to cover left-back, when Pickering went off injured was beyond baffling.  Scott Wharton was asked to cover the left with only Sigurdsson - who doesn't tackle or track back - for support.  Although the system seemed to start as a 3-5-2 today, it often ended up as a 4-4-2 but still couldn't stem Huddersfield's quick counterattacks.  We have struggled all season with any opposition that is prepared to run at us in a direct fashion.  Whilst at times, we seem to take far too many passes in the final third and allow teams to get organised defensively.  

Huddersfield, with better finishing, could and should have won.  They created the better chances with Sorba Thomas looking like the player we thought we'd signed last season.  He caused us endless problems and delivered the perfect corner for their equaliser.

Too many players seem to have lost form and confidence.  With no money to bring in new players, one wonders if the club is going to have to cash in on young Wharton for Szmodics.  At the moment this one out before we can get one in is not going to give us the depth of squad required. 

The only real positive for me today was the return of Pears who I thought played well on his return to the first team.   

[booth]

14 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Agree with your latter point. 

Strongly disagree on your point that the 15 million was well spent. 

Armstrong yes, Gally clearly no - that amount for us was huge and has hardly had a significant (if an OK impact.) Contrast it with what happened last time we spent that much- Sami and Hyam and you see its a poor use of the money. 

Brereton is imo similar in that the massive amount didn't yield enough success to warrant such a big fee. Granted its not as big a botch as Gally but its still poor. He did nothing for 2 seasons, which is a huge expensive waste. He then had a couple of OK seasons sandwiched between an excellent one. That's solid but given how huge an outlay 7 million is for us (and is now a pipe dream) you feel we could have used the money better. 

Of course letting him go on a free sours my view as well, albeit that's nor on the player. Not that we would reinvest it anyway - bringing us back to poor deals but utterly moronic owners. 

We needed defenders badly when Brereton was bought. It’s easy to look at it free of context and look at the important goals he eventually scored but we needed some pragmatic signings at the time.

Gallagher was a terrible waste of money. Probably Mowbray’s most bizarre signing. Was he drunk?

[SpaceBarSlam]

56 minutes ago, LDRover said:

Agreed.

But they reflect worse on the 'set piece coach'

Why on earth would we/JDT persist with Benson in that role though when our set piece play is absolutely chronic at both ends of the pitch? 

[wilsdenrover]

Form table since beginning of December:

[booth]

1 minute ago, Parsonblue said:

Another hugely disappointing home performance.  Whilst I've enjoyed JDT's football over the course of the season, recent weeks have seen a number of baffling decisions.  However, taking Chrisene off, a player who was signed to cover left-back, when Pickering went off injured was beyond baffling.  

He looked like he was flagging to me. That’s all I can think of.

[roversfan99]

What was most confusing about the decision which I am amazed people havent made more of, Sigurdsson as essentially a left wing back and Rankin Costello as a third centre back. A decision up there with Gallagher playing RB for 5-10 minutes between changes and Matteo in midfield. Is that it wasnt even a case whereby there was no reasonable alternative. Brittain could have gone to left back and Rankin Costello to right back with Sigurdsson in his usual position on tbe wing. It was especially perplexing when Moran came on shortly after as we could have just gone to the 4231 that we usually play.

[simongarnerisgod]

16 minutes ago, SpaceBarSlam said:

Why on earth would we/JDT persist with Benson in that role though when our set piece play is absolutely chronic at both ends of the pitch? 

is that actually true??, the  goalkeeping coach in charge of the set pieces, completely bizarre

[wilsdenrover]

6 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

is that actually true??, the  goalkeeping coach in charge of the set pieces, completely bizarre

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/23545658.blackburn-rovers-searching-vital-backroom-team-appointment/

Rovers will continue their search for a new set piece coach after the struggles in that department during the 2022/23 season.

Director of football Gregg Broughton pinpointed as it an area to improve, with Rovers second bottom for goals scored from set pieces.

They also shipped five goals from set plays in the run-in, and they will look to address that with the addition of a specialist in that area.

Goalkeeping coach Ben Benson has largely been entrusted with set piece organisation, a regular fixture on the touchline issuing instructions

(Eight months later…)

Edited January 20 by wilsdenrover

[booth]

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

What was most confusing about the decision which I am amazed people havent made more of, Sigurdsson as essentially a left wing back and Rankin Costello as a third centre back. A decision up there with Gallagher playing RB for 5-10 minutes between changes and Matteo in midfield. Is that it wasnt even a case whereby there was no reasonable alternative. Brittain could have gone to left back and Rankin Costello to right back with Sigurdsson in his usual position on tbe wing. It was especially perplexing when Moran came on shortly after as we could have just gone to the 4231 that we usually play.

But everyone says Brittain is shit at left back. So that’s you sacked in the morning.

Edit. For the record, I should say that’s what I’d have done too.

Edited January 20 by booth

[bluebruce]

25 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Form table since beginning of December:

I fully expected to see us bottom of that table, but what I find additionally concerning is that apart from the Bristol (14th) win over a month ago, all our points in these 10 games came at home against the other 2 teams with the next worst form. We really are easy pickings at the moment.

[wilsdenrover]

1 minute ago, bluebruce said:

I fully expected to see us bottom of that table, but what I find additionally concerning is that apart from the Bristol (14th) win over a month ago, all our points in these 10 games came at home against the other 2 teams with the next worst form. We really are easy pickings at the moment.

I don’t want to worry you even more but take a look at how our GD compares to everyone else’s…