Venky’s & Waggott Out Protest Ideas

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

In a previous meeting with the Rovers executive team, Suhail Pasha/Sheikh told us that: 
 
“The biggest mistake we (Venky’s) ever made was listening to Steve (Waggott) and Fraser (Read) and reducing season tickets by £30. What do you want next year, a reduction of £150?”

 

If you were in any doubt as to how much these Owners are out of touch with the fanbase then there you go.

Is that a direct quote, or just the gist of it?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

6 minutes ago, MCMC1875 said:

@glen9mullan a little bit more about heritage. Some years ago, under Waggott's watch, around about the time that Sodexo were awarded the catering contract, the murals in the Blues Bar depicting Rovers history were removed without notice and replaced with magnolia emulsion. After sustained action, the murals reappeared on the railings at the back of the Riverside amidst all the rubbish that is piled up there. Internal murals ruined. Waggott later claimed to know nothing about it. Another disgrace. 

Same with tbe Rovers History timelines that were proudly on display between JW, BBE and Darwen End Stands.

Removed without reason.

[Penwortham Blue]

22 minutes ago, DutchRover said:

Been a reader but never a poster here for a while, finally decided to join as a member. I applaud the actions taken by Glen et al, the fact that Waggott, Suhail and Gestede felt the need to go on such a press push yesterday shows the plan to pressure on them is working.

Frankly some of the excuses they gave were embarrassing, they bank entirely on fans not understanding how FFP works or looking at the registered accounts which as others have highlighted disprove Suhail's statements on the funding. 

Suhail did effectively confirm that the owners aren't interested in funding anything above daily running costs. When asked in the Lancs interview if now "barriers are lifted" on funding we will see transfers like Brereton or Gallagher again he just said no the owners don't want that but are committed to funding value transfers.

Likewise as someone posted in the other thread, Gestede's 5 targets are notably the positions where we are not renewing current players on higher wages.

The "we're close to renewing contracts" boxes them in, because I just cannot see them doing anything until the end of the season when they will go cap in hand and ask Venkys to keep the lights on for another year.

Frankly, the major positive from yesterday is their phrasing that the owners have "not asked us to look for a buyer"; they did not deny willingness to sell as they have done in the past. They also sketched out in surprising detail what they wanted to hear from a prospective buyer, implying that they would expect the debt to be paid of (c.300 million according to Waggott) alongside the value of the club. Others with more knowledge can comment on such matters but it is a small light.

Keep up the good work. 

 

Others have a much better knowledge and feel for FFP. However, I am reliably advised that the club were in an absolutely fantastic / never to be matched position to really have a go for promotion, unfettered by FFP restrictions, this season, especially in the window just gone.

[bluebruce]

21 minutes ago, DutchRover said:

They also sketched out in surprising detail what they wanted to hear from a prospective buyer, implying that they would expect the debt to be paid of (c.300 million according to Waggott) alongside the value of the club. Others with more knowledge can comment on such matters but it is a small light.

Christ, I hope they're flexible on that or we're never getting rid. They should thank their lucky stars if someone pays half the debt, and none of the value of the club, for a Championship outfit that they were able to buy in the Prem for £43 million including its debts, because it had been well ran.

You can't fuck up an asset and expect to get in excess of 7 times what you paid for it when you've left it in far far worse condition than you found it. Further signs that they're deluded and terrible at business.

[simongarnerisgod]

37 minutes ago, DutchRover said:

The "we're close to renewing contracts" boxes them in, because I just cannot see them doing anything until the end of the season when they will go cap in hand and ask Venkys to keep the lights on for another year.

brittain,sonny and travis will be sold in the summer,i have absolutely no doubt,dolan will leave for nothing,the tried and trusted excuse we all know whats coming,"we offered all of them extremely good deals but they wanted to explore other options" a thinly veiled lie that masks the truth that none of them were approached and they were sold quickly and below market value

[Tomphil2]

If it was all about survival in the Championship and breeding players to sell because we didn't have wealthy owners. Who hadn't created a black hole and dragged us back to the level we were 35 years ago and we were run by proper directors then some of the bleating from the men in suits might be palatable.

Those are the points a lot of other clubs supporters and the media don't get and for me and i suspect thousands more if we are going to be constantly on the bread line there i'd rather it be without this ownership who've caused most of it.

The club is a soulless shell and even sometimes when we are doing well it just doesn't seem right because you know around the corner is more nonsense.

[simongarnerisgod]

6 minutes ago, Tomphil2 said:

If it was all about survival in the Championship and breeding players to sell because we didn't have wealthy owners. Who hadn't created a black hole and dragged us back to the level we were 35 years ago and we were run by proper directors then some of the bleating from the men in suits might be palatable.

Those are the points a lot of other clubs supporters and the media don't get and for me and i suspect thousands more if we are going to be constantly on the bread line there i'd rather it be without this ownership who've caused most of it.

The club is a soulless shell and even sometimes when we are doing well it just doesn't seem right because you know around the corner is more nonsense.

thats why we have poor crowds and from next season ever worse ones,there is no hope with this lot,even when we were completely brassic in the 80`s the optimism was there because the club was being run by people who had it`s best interests at heart

[Tomphil2]

9 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

thats why we have poor crowds and from next season ever worse ones,there is no hope with this lot,even when we were completely brassic in the 80`s the optimism was there because the club was being run by people who had it`s best interests at heart

Well it seems they think we only have 6-9k fans so they are well on track to achieve that and will expect them to pay more and more for the honour.

Just shows their real mindset the bunch of downgrading wage thieves.

[glen9mullan]

Some absolutely fantastic post on here over the last few days.

It's really helping with pointers, memory recall and defining our direction.

It's why our supporters are so good, when in distress we support one another 

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

Christ, I hope they're flexible on that or we're never getting rid. They should thank their lucky stars if someone pays half the debt, and none of the value of the club, for a Championship outfit that they were able to buy in the Prem for £43 million including its debts, because it had been well ran.

You can't fuck up an asset and expect to get in excess of 7 times what you paid for it when you've left it in far far worse condition than you found it. Further signs that they're deluded and terrible at business.

There's no way they're getting their money back.

[JCRovers]

2 hours ago, DutchRover said:

Frankly, the major positive from yesterday is their phrasing that the owners have "not asked us to look for a buyer"; they did not deny willingness to sell as they have done in the past. They also sketched out in surprising detail what they wanted to hear from a prospective buyer, implying that they would expect the debt to be paid of (c.300 million according to Waggott) alongside the value of the club. Others with more knowledge can comment on such matters but it is a small light.

 

Think Waggott meant that the owners have put in a total of circa 300 million pounds throughout their entire ownership tenure (15 years). Latest accounts (2024) showed that the internal debt lies around 134 million pounds. Would be rather naive from their part to ask for new owners to take on the entirety of that debt since they created the mess in the first place (i.e. relegation from PL) but makes sense from a business standpoint. With a reported net worth of 1.5 billion pounds, the Venky's are seemingly more than capable of taking a loss so there might be some leeway for prospective owners to negotiate the price. They purchased the club in 2010 for reportedly 23 million pounds from Walker Trust while also taking on additional 20 million pounds worth of debt at that time; you can make a strong case that they bought the club on the cheap considering the squad value/club status but still failed to invest in/manage the club properly to keep them up.

Today's squad value is somewhere around 35 million pounds according to Transfermarkt if you deduct the value for all five current loanees. 

Squad value: 35 million

Internal debt: 134 million

Facilities (Brockhall/STC, Ewood Park): 25 million? 

Total: close to 200 million pounds.

Don't think the owners will entertain any offers below 100 million given these numbers, but I could be way off in terms of what they value at this point. Prospective owners will have to set target for an immediate return to PL if they want to pay off the debt the club has towards Venky's. Maybe an initial offer of say 60 million and a structuring of the 134 million debt to be paid within 15-20 years might entice them to sell? Big risk on the buyers' side of course, but the upside is there for everyone to see (return to PL, bigger attendances etc.).

Edited April 2 by JCRovers

[DutchRover]

Thanks for the clarification with regard to the internal debt, I've not examined the latest accounts in detail. They 100% bought us on the cheap in 2010, but that they mentioned the debt so close to when they were talking about a sale makes me think its a hint they want that written off if they are to sell; it could even be what they mean when they say "no concrete offers", ie they haven't offered that.

Given the way football club values are going, and what we've seen with regard to investors in other sports and clubs smaller than ours, it's not unreasonable to imagine them thinking they can fleece any new owner to cover the debt. Even if it is entirely their own fault the situation is as bad as it is.

Don't know how writing off the debt would affect their other businesses or the court case, or if the liquid cash is any better in that regard, but I suspect it will be playing a part.

Edited April 2 by DutchRover

[Tomphil2]

The sales of Kalinic, Jones and Samba brought in near enough the 39 mill they paid including the debt which for all we know wasn't paid off but restructured.

Be no surprise if they got their 24 million back pretty quickly and whilst they have clearly used a gigantic amount of company money there's a lot of smoke and mirrors to that 2/300 million.

Nobody and i mean nobody just throws away that hard cash.

[bluebruce]

27 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

There's no way they're getting their money back.

Exactly. So if that's what they insist on, we are in for another long road.

[DanielMB]

2 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Christ, I hope they're flexible on that or we're never getting rid. They should thank their lucky stars if someone pays half the debt, and none of the value of the club, for a Championship outfit that they were able to buy in the Prem for £43 million including its debts, because it had been well ran.

You can't fuck up an asset and expect to get in excess of 7 times what you paid for it when you've left it in far far worse condition than you found it. Further signs that they're deluded and terrible at business.

That’s like buying a new car. Then treating it poorly, not doing maintenance on it for years and then putting it up for sale for  the full price of the car as new. 

Edited April 2 by DanielMB

[Upside Down]

7 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

Just for clarity it was an enforced upgrade & pdf’s are no longer supported 😆

we’re not happy about it either 🤨

I thought it was something like that.

53 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

Some absolutely fantastic post on here over the last few days.

It's really helping with pointers, memory recall and defining our direction.

It's why our supporters are so good, when in distress we support one another 

I think the fanbase is in lock step on this one. The message is clear.

Sell up and sod off.

[bluebruce]

28 minutes ago, DanielMB said:

That’s like buying a new car. Then treating it poorly, not doing maintenance on it for years and then putting it up for sale for  the full price of the car as new. 

It's worse than that, they essentially want 7 times the amount as when it was new. Potentially more like 8 really (I didn't actually add anything for the sale value of the club as I don't know what they would value it at, plus we aren't clear if the alleged debt is 250 or 300 mill).

[danger19_80]

Well done to Andy Bayes for not shirking much in that interview. The answers may mostly have been BS but the questions were probing and very well representative of the fanbase on here and elsewhere. Bizarre Waggott et al swerve the currently soft-soaping, inexperienced lot at LT and welcome in an actual proper jouno.

Also, it's pretty incredible what @glen9mullan has managed to whip up in the last week. May well be a glass ceiling to what's it's ultimately possible for you to do (understandably) but you've had the measure of this lot and all their various cronies since the start. I hope you have more to come but you've shown it's easier than we thought to get under their skin.

[NeilInBristol]

10 hours ago, JHRover said:

Waggott tied himself in knots with the Eustace departure and fair play to Andy Bayes for forcing that out of him.

He came out with the ludicrous claim that the move occurred because Eustace had played for Derby and that it is 'closer to his house'. Eustace himself has said this wasn't a factor and nor is it very often in the world of professional football - you don't base your managerial career about being nearer to home or you don't get very far in the game.

He then conceded that there had been an approach from Derby on the Friday and that from that moment Eustace was in the 'departure lounge' essentially that his mind was elsewhere and not on the job at Rovers.

Then when asked why Eustace was allowed to remain in the dugout for the Wolves FA Cup game 2 days later, to which he responded that Eustace had done all the preparation that week and that because he hadn't joined Derby there was still a chance it might not happen. 

He whines about how difficult it is mid-season to recruit managers or even assistants employed at other clubs, overlooking the fact that this is precisely what happened here and the reason why we needed a new manager.

Sometimes I can't work out whether he actually believes some of the stuff he comes out with, and doesn't think what goes on here is unusual, as he does put on a pretty convincing display in suggesting that all is normal and part and parcel at Ewood, or whether it is a very well crafted performance designed to try and convince viewers that the events of the last few years here are just normal.

He also indicated that news would come out about a couple of new contracts for players in the next couple of days.

So I am looking forward to seeing who those are before the end of the week. I think we all know by now that this is highly unlikely to happen and at best it will be a couple of the academy lads or U21s getting improved terms. I will be amazed, astonished, if any of the current senior team are announced as having signed new extended terms before the weekend. He can't help himself. 

He believes it.

Don't give him credit he can't spin a wheel.

It's delusional. Sadly

[...]

Still think cast iron in motion statues should of been unveiled on the 150th anniversary 

Edited April 2 by ...
Typo

[Tomphil2]

Did the Walker Trust ask for the money back Jack spent in the decade he and they were funding the club ?

No, they asked for roughly the saleable asset value but then had to knock 20 mill off because of external debt so the price was circa 39 mill.

Previous owners nearly always have to write off their balance outstanding sheet because in reality it's just money they were prepared to lose when they spent it.

 

[bluebruce]

Funny how there's talk of a breakthrough on contracts in the next couple of days...didn't they only just say in the interviews that they're not discussing new contracts yet as they don't know what league we'll be in?

Sounds like we lit a rocket up their arse to try rush contracts through for positive PR.

[simongarnerisgod]

22 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Funny how there's talk of a breakthrough on contracts in the next couple of days...didn't they only just say in the interviews that they're not discussing new contracts yet as they don't know what league we'll be in?

Sounds like we lit a rocket up their arse to try rush contracts through for positive PR.

it`s all lies

[Displaced Rover]

4 hours ago, DutchRover said:

They also sketched out in surprising detail what they wanted to hear from a prospective buyer, implying that they would expect the debt to be paid of (c.300 million according to Waggott) alongside the value of the club. Others with more knowledge can comment on such matters but it is a small light.

 

 

That’s now how M&A works (as a rule). Companies have an underling “enterprise value” (sod all for a club with Rovers reliable annual losses - different story if they bothered to get us to the PL), with that then adjusted for working capital requirements and net debt to get to the value of the equity being acquired.

No one is going to pay them even a fraction of what they’ve spaffed away (or even what they originally paid) unless we’re in the PL which is why I’ve always thought the annual January self sabotage is a huge indicator they’ll never sell - otherwise the smart play is invest a few million to massively increase the clubs value.

[47er]

7 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

@glen9mullan As a suggestion, perhaps this could be turned into some 'marketing material' for the protest movement?

There's lots of to-the-point straplines in here.

Rory is very impressive. Combination of passion and grasp of events. We should hear more from him.