John Eustace - our head coach

[ABBEY]

8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

To be fair, most of the stick was because he hadnt won a game prior to yesterday.

No the stick is for treating fans like were stupid with his no excuse excuses

[47er]

3 hours ago, alex l said:

Don't disagree he got some good loans but also some absolute duds or players who were quite poor for us:

 

Zeefuik, Giles, Poveda, Clarkson, Douglas, Branthwaite (though started off ok), Palmer, Harper

Branthwaite a strange one. Has kicked on a lot since his spell with us where he looked very ordinary.

Poveda wasn't a dud but he wasn't consistent.

Edited April 3 by 47er

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, 47er said:

Branthwaite a strange one. Has kicked on a lot since his spell with us where he looked very ordinary.

Povea wasn't a dud but he wasn't consistent.

I don’t think Giles was a dud but Mowbray playing him on the right wing was just typical Mowbray - crackers.

[Mattyblue]

Branthwaite was 18, a tough gig being thrown in the Championship. Always every chance he would improve.

[jim mk2]

Branthwaite didn’t look the part at Rovers but has obviously improved since then. Harwood Bellis on the other hand looked top class to me and a future England player way ahead of Branthwaite

To be fair to Mowbray among the flops the club got some excellent loans under him when you consider we’ve also had the likes of Tosin, Elliott, Reid and Giles, who looked an excellent left back when he was played in his proper position. 

[martonrover]

3 hours ago, alex l said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/24226354.eustace-makes-request-negative-energy-admission/

I get his point but the way it is reported, he doesn't endear himself to those who have concerns with the bigger picture at the club, rather than just the result on match day. 

I don’t think he’s talking about the bigger picture, (ie the ownership), on this occasion.

He’s basically asking for a bit of patience with the recovery of fortunes on the pitch, and I agree with him.

The stats in the article are telling, particularly the ones before his arrival, and there have been small steps in the right direction even before Monday.

If he keeps us up he’s done his job.

Then we would have to see what happens during the Summer, (very low expectations).

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Branthwaite didn’t look the part at Rovers but has obviously improved since then. Harwood Bellis on the other hand looked top class to me and a future England player way ahead of Branthwaite

To be fair to Mowbray among the flops the club got some excellent loans under him when you consider we’ve also had the likes of Tosin, Elliott, Reid and Giles, who looked an excellent left back when he was played in his proper position. 

He even played a match winner like Reid out of position most of the time.

[Armchair supporter supremo]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

Branthwaite a strange one. Has kicked on a lot since his spell with us where he looked very ordinary.

Poveda wasn't a dud but he wasn't consistent.

Poveda is being released in the summer i think. 

Started well for us and looked dangerous until his bad injury but it seems his career regressed a bit since the injury

[Blue blood]

6 hours ago, alex l said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/24226354.eustace-makes-request-negative-energy-admission/

I get his point but the way it is reported, he doesn't endear himself to those who have concerns with the bigger picture at the club, rather than just the result on match day. 

The stats and improvement context is also a bit misleading from the LT.

I mean, when that's meant to be your improvement with the new manager bounce it's not a great record. Especially when you factor who those games were against. 

Likewise JDTs last 10 game stats doesn't factor in injuries or the fact he may have downed tools after 3 windows being shafted transfer wise. 

I'm still yet to be convinced he's not a dud. 

 

 

[Dreams of 1995]

19 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

The stats and improvement context is also a bit misleading from the LT.

I mean, when that's meant to be your improvement with the new manager bounce it's not a great record. Especially when you factor who those games were against. 

Likewise JDTs last 10 game stats doesn't factor in injuries or the fact he may have downed tools after 3 windows being shafted transfer wise. 

I'm still yet to be convinced he's not a dud.

You give JDT an excuse of players downing tools and injuries, but then you don't offer that same leeway to Eustace

At the end of the day, they are the same set of players. If you think they were shown a soft side and an unwillingness to fight, why do you think that would revert immediately after John Eustace came in?

He came in during a particularly challenging part of the season really. The games came thick & fast, players were returning from injury which is always a delicate moment and the whole tide was turning against the club. I actually think he has done a good job. The football is improving and we aren't over committing any more. It was never going to be as satisfying on the eye as JDT, who was really trying to play PL level football with players not up to it. It is more pragmatic, with a better understanding of the quality we have at our disposal

I thought JDT was the best coach we have had in recent memory. He wasn't given the tools to really show it. John Eustace is different; he will work with what he has. For some people, that means he is a yes man, but for others it just shows a man that is willing to adapt and earn his living by doing the best job he possibly can with the resources available

[phili]

26 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You give JDT an excuse of players downing tools and injuries, but then you don't offer that same leeway to Eustace

At the end of the day, they are the same set of players. If you think they were shown a soft side and an unwillingness to fight, why do you think that would revert immediately after John Eustace came in?

He came in during a particularly challenging part of the season really. The games came thick & fast, players were returning from injury which is always a delicate moment and the whole tide was turning against the club. I actually think he has done a good job. The football is improving and we aren't over committing any more. It was never going to be as satisfying on the eye as JDT, who was really trying to play PL level football with players not up to it. It is more pragmatic, with a better understanding of the quality we have at our disposal

I thought JDT was the best coach we have had in recent memory. He wasn't given the tools to really show it. John Eustace is different; he will work with what he has. For some people, that means he is a yes man, but for others it just shows a man that is willing to adapt and earn his living by doing the best job he possibly can with the resources available

He still needs to win the next 2 to equals Appleton's record and we all thought he was an unmitigated disaster.

The jury is still out, we won't get relegated this season but with further cost cutting in the summer, I just can't see him working out and inspiring the fan base. At a stable club and pragmatic club, I could see him doing well.

[tomphil]

The trouble if or when the budget is cut again and more sales follow with little to no reinvestment we simply have to have a guy like Eustace.

If you need to tow a horsebox you won't buy a sports car even if you'd prefer one you have to have something that plods through the shite mundanely everyday.

So in many ways he's the ideal man for that job just grinding enough points to stay in this league whilst using about 40% youth/young loans and hoping one improves enough to be worth something.

All that isn't his fault he's just going to apply substance instead of style to minimise risk, it isn't our fault for baulking at the prospect either.

We know whose fault it is and collectively they continue to take any ambition or hope away on purpose by the looks of it. The dumbing down process, as predicted a while ago, is now in phase 3.

Selling it to anything other than the hardest of the remaining hardcore will be nigh on impossible.  Changing gaffer without improving the budget though is also rather pointless.

[ben_the_beast]

I think JDT is by far the best manager to walk through the door under Venkys reign, but was really hamstrung at every turn and not given the tools to do the job. Our ceiling was higher under him but with the chaos and financial restrictions meant his and the clubs potential was never going to be met. We ended up being a poor match. Our chaos held him back and his footballing principles were to the detriment of the club.

Eustice on the other hand strikes me as a practical bloke. If finances are sorted and he is backed, I think a point will come where he takes us as far as he can. But he will bring some stability and meets our current needs better than JDT did. 

I must say though, I do miss JDT's interviews, his determination to raise standards at the club and him holding Waggott and Pasha to account. I'm grateful for what he tried to do here.

Edited April 3 by ben_the_beast

[Gav]

Just reading some of the posters still flogging the Mowbray narrative, in time you'll come to realise the guy did a decent job here and if this was a normal club in any way, would have turned a massive profit on players and probably got us promoted with the proceeds.

Getting back to Eustace, he's working with the same players, the same depleted squad (Granted with players coming back) and the same bullshit going on behind the scenes (Players contracts). It all doesn't lend itself to a cohesive approach to winning football matches.

He's a decent manager, but the odds are stacked against him, just like JDT, who was the best manager to come here under these idiots and they lied to him.

VENKYS OUT - NOTHING ELSE MATTERS

Edited April 3 by Gav

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

If we were to go down with the resulting shit show that that would entail I could see Eustace making a better job of getting us back up than I could JDT. 
 

JDT and the Chicken Chokers was never going to work. He was much too open and honest for them. Having said that he lost a lot of credit with me after the dingledome debacle and I never really had the same confidence in him after that. I been watching derbies since 1962 and that was without doubt the worst performance I’d ever seen from either team. Even in the 5-0 caning the dingles gave it a go, they were just outclassed.

[roverandout]

Stan ternant.  It's like a ferrari against a skoda

[aletheia]

7 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Branthwaite didn’t look the part at Rovers but has obviously improved since then. Harwood Bellis on the other hand looked top class to me and a future England player way ahead of Branthwaite

To be fair to Mowbray among the flops the club got some excellent loans under him when you consider we’ve also had the likes of Tosin, Elliott, Reid and Giles, who looked an excellent left back when he was played in his proper position. 

Yes thanks Jim -was trying to remember the name of the good player who Mowbray insisted on playing on the wing when it was clear he was better and wanted to play in the centre. You could see it in his body language. (EDIT ah just seen your post too Tyrone.)

Reid

Edited April 3 by aletheia

[aletheia]

No particular axe to grind with JE. His remit is simple, keep us up, keep his head down with regards off-field stuff, toe the official narrative. Just like Mowbray. No heat on owners, we limp on, zombie club, SWAG happy, fans happy just to watch a game. It's already happening in the fanbase and media. Nothing to see here. Admin errors, what admin errors?

Others may prefer a manager who is more ambitious and calls out the loons. More chance that way of spotlight on the dysfunction and possible change. Can't see SWAG/Suhail making that mistake again.

[Bohinen1983]

I'd have Poveda back in a heartbeat. Fast, skillful and bags of pace- everything this side lacks- get another lad like that on the other flank, a ball carrying centre mid, two new strikers, a keeper, right back, left back and an extra body in centre mid and we'll be in with a chance of finishing 2nd bottom instead of rock bottom. 

[M_B]

35 minutes ago, Bohinen1983 said:

I'd have Poveda back in a heartbeat. Fast, skillful and bags of pace- everything this side lacks- get another lad like that on the other flank, a ball carrying centre mid, two new strikers, a keeper, right back, left back and an extra body in centre mid and we'll be in with a chance of finishing 2nd bottom instead of rock bottom. 

Poveda's performance in the home game against Sheff Utd was outstanding, he then got injured the game after, who knows what might have been. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, M_B said:

Poveda's performance in the home game against Sheff Utd was outstanding, he then got injured the game after, who knows what might have been. 

It wasn’t a bit of an injury either - he was out for the rest of the season. Best that we stay away now.

[rigger]

24 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It wasn’t a bit of an injury either - he was out for the rest of the season. Best that we stay away now.

We are well known for staying away from injured players.

[Blue blood]

17 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You give JDT an excuse of players downing tools and injuries, but then you don't offer that same leeway to Eustace

At the end of the day, they are the same set of players. If you think they were shown a soft side and an unwillingness to fight, why do you think that would revert immediately after John Eustace came in?

He came in during a particularly challenging part of the season really. The games came thick & fast, players were returning from injury which is always a delicate moment and the whole tide was turning against the club. I actually think he has done a good job. The football is improving and we aren't over committing any more. It was never going to be as satisfying on the eye as JDT, who was really trying to play PL level football with players not up to it. It is more pragmatic, with a better understanding of the quality we have at our disposal

I thought JDT was the best coach we have had in recent memory. He wasn't given the tools to really show it. John Eustace is different; he will work with what he has. For some people, that means he is a yes man, but for others it just shows a man that is willing to adapt and earn his living by doing the best job he possibly can with the resources available

Hey Dreams, great post. A few thoughts in response to it. 

Firstly why do u expect a response different for Eustace for the same players. Mainly because football almost always shows that players buck up after a new manager comes in. New manager bounce, honeymoon period, call it what you will but generally most managers get an initial reaction. I could be mistaken but I think even the duds Plymouth and Millwall appointed got a few decent results at the start. Regardless of those examples I think it's well held players up their game for a bit for a new manager. You could also argue if they were unhappy with JDT and had downed tools for him, surely his removal would have made them happy and willing to up tools again. 

Not saying Eustace has had it easy but comparatively his injury list has been less and some kinder fixtures made it the kind of run you want to have. Sure the players had to be managed but  even 60 minutes of some of our better players is better than non whatsoever! Especially when our squad is so thin. Games coming thick and fast yes, but it's the same for other teams too. Not wanting to ignore the squad problems or the culprits behind that so not everything is on Eustace at all. But I don't think it's as tough a start as he could have had. 

I'm less bothered about the style and agree the last few months before Eustace were grim. But are we really improving? I guess for me it only seems that way if you compare it with the last 10 games of JDT and don't take in other factors. Even then the lack of goals and wins vs some weaker teams make me question have we really improved. And if the 10 games prior is seen as a blip- caused by a peed off manager being shafted for 3 windows alongside injuries - then have we improved since earlier in this season, let alone last year. I'm not convinced with a slightly wider lens that we are improving or are where we were in November say. 

The yes man vs willing to work debate is an interesting one. Personally given the rampant abuse of our club by those running it, anyone happy to work in that and not challenge it is probably pretty complicit. And we've seem at Rovers those employed with us can be complicit in the destruction of the club, Waggott and Kean for two. Not saying he is at that level but rather it's hard to see him not being involved in the misuse of our club. I guess one analogy would be a manager who comes in to a factory using child labour to make substandard products and is happy to work in that framework. I'm not sure you can be happy to work with our framework and not be complicit because it is so broken and so clearly wrong. Hopefully this doesn't come across as over dramatic, the point I'm trying to make is I don't think the two are that distinct. 

Mind you add in him being a Maggot appointment and that doesn't help me give him the benerit of the doubt! That man is poison and I wouldn't trust him not to appoint a yes man. Not that thsys evidence enough in itself but again has me leaning towards the dud and complicit perspective. I also don't think that Eustace's commente help either. At Rovers I feel comments matter more. Added to 2hidj he comes across as deluded and part of the corruption in our club when he comes up with such wild untruths. 

So yeah not a fan! I will say in fairness though anyone coming in after JDT would  e viewed negatively. Appreciate you getting me to think more how much is a reaction to JDT leaving Rovers and if I'm being overly harsh

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

There are one or two on here who would have never been happy whoever replaced JDT. They were members of his fan club, so I’m not really surprised about that. They wanted the current manager fired after about 5 games ! To replace him with ? Strangely enough they haven’t had much to say since the result at Sunderland.

I try to be a bit more objective. Players and managers are ordinary men, they aren’t gods, so putting them on a pedestal rarely ends well. I liked JDT as a person, he was a breath of fresh air when he came to the club at first. Inevitably the malaise at Blackburn Rovers overwhelmed him and he came to the end of the road. He realised that almost a year ago and he generously offered to stand aside in the summer when he obviously saw the writing on the wall. 

In my experience of over 60 years watching football I’ve never known a manager be held to a contract for any length of time once he’s made it clear he wanted out. The Chicken Chokers in their madness decide to break some new football ground.

I didn’t know much about Eustace other than he’d done ok/quite well at Big Club. He seemed to be held in good regard by the fans there. Once he was appointed I was prepared to give him a bit more time than his first half a dozen games.  I hope he keeps us up, after all that was why he was brought in. If he doesn’t I’d still be prepared to give him a go at next season. I anticipate another really ineffectual close season with one or two of our better players leaving to be replaced by more kids. With that in mind we are going to need a more pragmatic manager who cuts his cloth accordingly.

Edited April 4 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Exiled in Toronto Mk2]

On 02/04/2024 at 18:28, Dreams of 1995 said:

You couldn't have it more wrong about Eustace

But, it isn't a theme to know what you are talking about when it comes to John Eustace to be fair

I can't remember a manager getting as much undue stick on here than this bloke. It borders on stupid to be fair. Eustace had a few job offers before going with Rovers. He wanted this gig

We are indeed blessed to have his 15-months senior-level management experience then. Did many of the clubs whose offers he spurned have double-digit top honours wins, 30,000 seat stadia and Cat 1 Academies?

He’s a novice at this level; he may come good and I hope he does, but currently he’s a lot luckier to be at Blackburn Rovers than Blackburn Rovers are to have nabbed him.