The Summer Transfer Window (Press Submit)

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

Sermon? Teacher to pupil? Sorry if it reads like that. I just get bored people getting carried away when we sell a player.

I like JHRovers posts. But he started by asking what major financial trouble is the club in?  Well it couldn't be any worse.

If it was as straight forward as price reducing tickets as you always lamely suggest, every club would do it. Ask yourself why they don't.

Let's hear your suggestions on how to get more fans in. I'm all ears as I'm sure are all the commercial staff at Rovers.

 

How many clubs have a stadium as empty as hours, regularly complain about lack of fans and atmosphere yet do nothing about it other than pray for big away followings.

That is what is lame and seeing as you've already mentioned a certain set of prices as an even lamer excuse perhaps you could enlighten us with a few suggestions instead.

Other than carry on fleecing the ever dwindling hardcore of course.

[Penwortham Blue]

2 hours ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

We lose anything from sixteen to twenty million per year. Just let that sink in. 1.5 to 1.75 million per month. 400k a week. 55k per day.

Our debt rose 11 million from 152 million to 163 million. 144 million of which is owed to the owners. We have a wage to turnover ratio of circa 123%.

Far be it for me to stick up for the people who got us into this mess. Wasting all the brilliant work, investment and income from PL money, Uncle Jack, John Williams, quality managers, countless players and thousands of fans.

The financial negligence and overall stupidity of these owners has been astounding.  We used to lose 2-3 million per year in the PL, turning over circa 50 million. An amount easily covered with the occasional player sale.

But now we lose circa 20 million per year. 

However, I keep reading how a poxy 20 million here, a percentage sell on clause there, a potential player sale to come, suddenly means we have cash to burn. We don't. We are skint.

We will lose another 20 million this season. Bang goes the Wharton money. We will lose 20 million next season. Bang goes the Szmodics money.

This doesn't touch or make in-roads into the debt. That is simply running costs. The owners aren't suddenly cash rich from Rovers. There is zero money available. Zilch. Nothing. Empty purse.

Meanwhile I keep reading how a more astute commercial team would generate huge money at the Rovers! How? More programme sales? More perimeter board advertising? More weekly lottery sales? Concourse advertising? Shirt sponsors? Merchandise sales?

No chance, unless the team is doing well. Take it from me, absolutely no chance at all, when you are getting battered away at Huddersfield, Wednesday and Bristol. The commercial team actually do really well to retain what they get. I'm amazed we haven't lost more sponsors. Plus we have some very loyal supporters / companies willing to maintain relationships.

You will only sell more programmes, shirts, burgers, lottery tickets, concourse advertising and sponsorships if the team is doing well on the pitch, there is a feel good factor around the club and more people attend the matches. Guaranteed. Selling anything to do with the team when the team is getting battered is like trying to sell double glazing.

As to half price tickets, ticket giveaways etc. It costs a fortune to open additional stands, on stewards, police, ground-safety, turnstile operators etc. 

12,500 fans at £ 25.00 = £ 312,500.00

20,000 fans at £ 15.00 = £ 300,000.00 - plus a ton more fixed costs. It's a no brainer to simply cater for the die hards.

The only reason we have stayed afloat is money from player sales in Armstoing, Kaminski, Bereton, Wharton and others. That is why we sold Adam and our captain in January. Because we are flat broke.

We have actually done quite well in player trading despite the constant criticism on here. The Raos deserve credit for that and also for not letting us fold. But so they should as the first five years of their reign caused all.of this.

There is no way to fix this unless you want a big cash injection from.the owners and a winner takes all gamble. Or we get lucky with a manager like Ipswich have, on an average salary at 9k per week.

Commercially we are broke and the business does not function. Jusr like 80% of all other clubs. God knows why these clowns keep funding the debt. 

Hello, is that you Swag 😊

[RoversTilliDie]

7 hours ago, JustARover said:

We won't get that for Szmodics he's almost 29 with no top league experience

You don't spend all the money you make as a club from sales especially when you're in as much debt as we are

I'd be buzzing with 20mil for Szmodics if we do sell him but could see it being more 15mil

Saying that then adding in other sales on top with the money we'll get from Raya we'll be at around 45mil made from transfer fees

We're a club in major financial trouble we aren't seeing all of that in fees to sign players if anything we'll spend at most 5/8 hopefully then you have to factor in loan fees and wages

This is a summer were venkys either make a statement and back us with fees for better signings or we continue with frees and loans with maybe 1 or 2 small fees

No matter what though we need to spend money to climb this table or this time next season we're league 1 unfortunately 

I know it all wont go on transfers, but we could do with a decent striker or two in the Summer, we don't want to be in the same position next Season, I have been frustrated in the Blackburn end for half of the Season, all the missed sitters from our misfiring strikeforce (Sam Szchmodics not included). A decent centre half and a winger would improve things as well.

[onlyonejackwalker]

6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

How many clubs have a stadium as empty as hours, regularly complain about lack of fans and atmosphere yet do nothing about it other than pray for big away followings.

That is what is lame and seeing as you've already mentioned a certain set of prices as an even lamer excuse perhaps you could enlighten us with a few suggestions instead.

Other than carry on fleecing the ever dwindling hardcore of course.

I read all the pathetic nonsense about big away followings. I didm't pull you up on it. Affecting Pears performance blah blah blah. Clean sheets at Leeds and Leicester, but some Sheff Wednesday fans made him terrified?

If it was me, I'd sell as many tickets as possible, as often as posible in the away end.  We are skint. What business turns away paying customers? Where's the sense in that?

I pointed out the figures to illustrate there is no financial benefit to price reducing tickets to attract day trippers. In fact it irritates season ticket holders who've paid upfront. Plus its hard establishimg value and getting prices back up once prices have been reduced.

I knew you'd have nothing to contribute, hence asking you. I'm not suprised as it is a very delicate situation as so much damage has been done. 

A longer term plan for fan engagement, taking the club into the community. But that relies on staff going up and beyond, player / mascot involvement and our club isn't like that anymore. Maybe contact all ex season ticket holders or one off attendees. Create a better match day experience if possible.

Like I said when preaching. Success on the pitch is the best way.

[onlyonejackwalker]

13 minutes ago, Penwortham Blue said:

Hello, is that you Swag 😊

Ok. Just trying to put a bit of balance to the boring rhetoric of why don't we spend the Wharton money, why don't we cut all our.ticket pricing, why do we encourage large away attendances, why is our commercial department so pathetic, etc etc.

[Mattyblue]

Nobody is talking about reducing match tickets (so undercutting ST holders), in fact don’t, as you can then still rinse big away followings. PNE’s match tickets have actually been increased in price to do just that, as they know the home support is protected from those prices by buying STs in big numbers.

Outside the PL, reducing season ticket prices is the only way you are substantially increasing crowds, as STs make up the bulk of the crowd for the entire season - just like our neighbours are seeing.

Will it bring in more revenue? No, not really, but so what, it can only help the team, the atmosphere, there are secondary incomes that come from more bums on seats too - if you have the supply, utilise it.

Edited May 6 by Mattyblue

[xtp]

2 hours ago, islander200 said:

What I don't understand is we lose £20 million per year every year?

When our top earner was Rhodes on 35k a week and had other high earners the owners had to put in £20 million to keep us afloat.

Now we have the third lowest wage  budget in the league and spend hardly anything in the transfer market but we still have to find £20 million,?

Parachute payments, maybe?

[FE123]

I reserve any sort of judgment on Eustace at Had 0 options when he came in other than trying to make our wide open team more solid and stop the 1 or 2 goals per game being shipped from set pieces.

I expect this summer for him to attempt to build a compact team with pace at the top of the pitch. This is what he did very well with the likes of Khadra, Dembele, Miyoshi at Birmingham.

We all know there isn’t going to be mass investment in the squad despite recent and upcoming sales but I do believe Gregg will push for several players on small fees with the aim of selling for profit after 1 or 2 good years.

I think we will see Sigurdsson do well this season. Clearly has ability and was affected by injury issues.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, tomphil said:

We haven't done well on player trading at all the model is a selling one the issue is we should have had a trading model years ago.

That's how similar sized clubs boost their income/wage bill and out perform Rovers, many of them also losing 20 mill per season at times also.

Not all under pinned by billionaires either.

I think you mean “ undermined “ not “ under pinned “.

[BankEnd Rover]

24 minutes ago, FE123 said:

I reserve any sort of judgment on Eustace at Had 0 options when he came in other than trying to make our wide open team more solid and stop the 1 or 2 goals per game being shipped from set pieces.

I expect this summer for him to attempt to build a compact team with pace at the top of the pitch. This is what he did very well with the likes of Khadra, Dembele, Miyoshi at Birmingham.

We all know there isn’t going to be mass investment in the squad despite recent and upcoming sales but I do believe Gregg will push for several players on small fees with the aim of selling for profit after 1 or 2 good years.

I think we will see Sigurdsson do well this season. Clearly has ability and was affected by injury issues.

Siggy at number 10 and he will bring us goals…He’s wasted on the wing as he simply isn’t quick enough.

Edited May 6 by BankEnd Rover

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

I read all the pathetic nonsense about big away followings. I didm't pull you up on it. Affecting Pears performance blah blah blah. Clean sheets at Leeds and Leicester, but some Sheff Wednesday fans made him terrified?

If it was me, I'd sell as many tickets as possible, as often as posible in the away end.  We are skint. What business turns away paying customers? Where's the sense in that?

I pointed out the figures to illustrate there is no financial benefit to price reducing tickets to attract day trippers. In fact it irritates season ticket holders who've paid upfront. Plus its hard establishimg value and getting prices back up once prices have been reduced.

I knew you'd have nothing to contribute, hence asking you. I'm not suprised as it is a very delicate situation as so much damage has been done. 

A longer term plan for fan engagement, taking the club into the community. But that relies on staff going up and beyond, player / mascot involvement and our club isn't like that anymore. Maybe contact all ex season ticket holders or one off attendees. Create a better match day experience if possible.

Like I said when preaching. Success on the pitch is the best way.

The original point is cheaper season tickets not match by match tickets so in your usual arrogant tone and pointless cheek puffing you've spouted the usual generic crap we'd expect from Waggot et all.

Big away followings this season have taken the points because the rest of Ewood isn't full enough nor fiesty enough in this current era with this squad so it's like a home game for opposition. When fans and team or 'on it' then we rise to the occasion but all the background noise and nonsense pollutes the stands, understandably and it would at any club. Here in particular though people are just sick and fed up of this regime. They deserve league 1 or the dole even if the players don't.

Give them 5k instead of 7 so they ain't breathing down the players necks but more to the point which will obviously be lost on you is the fact it INSPIRES the opposition way beyond what it need to be.

You obviously don't actually attend that often if you champion vast away followings because it's nauseating to sit there and i'm sure it's crap for the team.  This isn't the Mowbray team or the Souness team it's a squad of 30% academy kids, 20% young loans and they need ALL the help they can get to create an environment to prosper in.

Perhaps you and that berk in the directors box ought to start thinking about things from a football and points perspective. Even experienced managers like Mowbray and Allardyce complained to the hierarchy about it and things were done, you obviously know better.

Why am i not in the least bit surprised

[Torgeir]

22 hours ago, tomphil said:

Wasn't quick you're right but most of the time decent delivery he literally turned Rudy into a 6 million player with pin point crosses.

Good workrate, great attitude.

Game of opinions. I agree with the workrate and attitude bit, just think he was eventually in what was a forgetful and poor team. Even watched him live in one of the dullest matches I have ever seen versus Hull City in 2016 and thought he had a real stinker. Far from the only player I don't rate from that period.

[bluebruce]

On 05/05/2024 at 20:27, Torgeir said:

Oooof no. He was really really poor, no attributes at all. Would slow up play all the time and didn't have a very good delivery.

Wow, bizarre take IMO. Conway was quality for us. Best winger we've had since relegation, hands down. Delivery was excellent.

Edited May 6 by bluebruce

[bluebruce]

4 hours ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

If it was me, I'd sell as many tickets as possible, as often as posible in the away end.  We are skint. What business turns away paying customers? Where's the sense in that?

They're not really our paying customers though. They're there to support the team we're trying to beat.

To use an analogy, it's a bit like if you run a pub, and there's a few customers who always start shit whenever they come. Maybe smear their excrement in the cubicles, start fights, break the pool cues over someone's head. Would you tun away those paying customers? Of course you would. I know opposition fans aren't (usually) doing those things specifically, but if they contribute to us losing points (which is exactly what they show up hoping to do), it's an enormous false economy to say put as many of them in there as possible. Football comes down to small margins a lot, and players are always saying they need the support of the fans, that they're a 12th man etc. It might be a cliche, but why would they say it if they don't thrive on that support? If those small margins cost you a promotion or a relegation (remember, we missed out by GD last year and stayed up by one win this year, small margins can change those), how on earth can it be justifiable to earn an extra 50k or so but lose out on millions?

[JHRover]

5 hours ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

Sermon? Teacher to pupil? Sorry if it reads like that. I just get bored people getting carried away when we sell a player.

I like JHRovers posts. But he started by asking what major financial trouble is the club in?  Well it couldn't be any worse.

If it was as straight forward as price reducing tickets as you always lamely suggest, every club would do it. Ask yourself why they don't.

Let's hear your suggestions on how to get more fans in. I'm all ears as I'm sure are all the commercial staff at Rovers.

 

Our financial position should be no worse than that at most other sides in this league. 

I'm not saying losing £10-20 million a year is good, but it is the going rate. If the owners don't like that or can't afford it then there is a simple solution that would make sense for everyone - leave and let us move on.

Millwall, Watford, PNE, Huddersfield, Birmingham, Coventry, Cardiff, Swansea, Bristol City - we really shouldn't be much different at all to any of those clubs. Some will naturally get bigger crowds, some shouldn't. Some will make more on merchandise, some won't. We've got a Cat A academy costing us a little bit more than those clubs (Swansea excepted). 

If we are struggling to compete financially with those sides then there is a problem. And the solution to that problem isn't to shrug shoulders and convince ourselves there's nothing to be done. The solution is to quickly make changes to reverse that.

Right here right now, heading into the summer and a transfer window, we SHOULD be in a far better financial state than all those clubs.

Why? Because within the last 12 months we have banked over £25 million in transfer fees. We've spent what, a few hundred grand, maybe a million max on Wahlstedt, Telalovic and O'Riordan?

None of those other clubs have brought in that sort of cash and not many of them will in the coming months.

We are also lucky because we know we will soon be getting even more for Raya, and we are in a position of probably wanting or needing to cash in on Szmodics. 

Transfer income of over £35 million in 12 months is ridiculous for a side in our position, and a net profit of well over £30 million on trading. 

That is the sort of income that doesn't come around very often and when it does it should be used to fund a massive comprehensive rebuild of the squad and club, funding new assets to be sold down the line.

I've barely touched on wages suffice to say that aside from Gallagher there should be nobody left on competitive Championship wages and with another round of departures coming that wage bill will surely be as low as it can realistically get.

It's the 'model' they've sold to us for the last few years, only they seem to have forgotten about the reinvest part.

It's the model that other clubs have followed and I've been told is the only way we can compete, by reinvesting profits into trading rather than relying on the owners pumping it in.

Well we've now got the cash. PNE don't. Millwall don't. Cardiff don't. 

The money the owners will have budgeted to come over to Rovers - the '£20 million' a year or whatever it is - will still be in their budgets. So why isn't the bonus money from these sales being used on top of the owners' money, or at least partly on top of?

 

 

 

[Upside Down]

12 hours ago, Mercer said:

If we even spend £2million on transfer fees then I will be amazed.

Feel sure the Raos will see the monies from the Wharton sale, the Raya clause and the almost certain sale of Sammie as an opportunity to claw back some of their £200million and to save on further funding.

I also think it's pretty certain the Indian court case will sabotage the dreams of some of our lofty dreamers on this MB.  Despite the noise from Waggott and Broughton, which I think is bullsh1t, I think this pending court case is  going to be a high hurdle to clear and will hit hard any player trading plans Broughton thinks he might have. 

As for Sammie's fee - the lad will be going on 29 when the new season kicks off and has never played in the PL and I think £15million is as much as we can expect and it does sound as though some of that will end up with Posh.  Like Armstrong, Sammie scores goals for fun in the Championship but as Armstrong found out, the PL is a totally different level. 

Like many on here think, until we have both new owners and a new CEO then Championship survival is I think the best we can hope for and my goodness, even that will be one helluva challenge next season.

 

New owners would automatically mean a new CEO. Nobody with any shred of nouse, ambition or self respect would employ a bottom feeding retard like maggot.

[yankfan]

I know JDT is gone but I’d much rather be handing him a £20 m+ million transfer budget than Eustace. Not like anyone’s getting that sort of funding but if they were. 

[lraC]

6 hours ago, JHRover said:

Our financial position should be no worse than that at most other sides in this league. 

I'm not saying losing £10-20 million a year is good, but it is the going rate. If the owners don't like that or can't afford it then there is a simple solution that would make sense for everyone - leave and let us move on.

Millwall, Watford, PNE, Huddersfield, Birmingham, Coventry, Cardiff, Swansea, Bristol City - we really shouldn't be much different at all to any of those clubs. Some will naturally get bigger crowds, some shouldn't. Some will make more on merchandise, some won't. We've got a Cat A academy costing us a little bit more than those clubs (Swansea excepted). 

If we are struggling to compete financially with those sides then there is a problem. And the solution to that problem isn't to shrug shoulders and convince ourselves there's nothing to be done. The solution is to quickly make changes to reverse that.

Right here right now, heading into the summer and a transfer window, we SHOULD be in a far better financial state than all those clubs.

Why? Because within the last 12 months we have banked over £25 million in transfer fees. We've spent what, a few hundred grand, maybe a million max on Wahlstedt, Telalovic and O'Riordan?

None of those other clubs have brought in that sort of cash and not many of them will in the coming months.

We are also lucky because we know we will soon be getting even more for Raya, and we are in a position of probably wanting or needing to cash in on Szmodics. 

Transfer income of over £35 million in 12 months is ridiculous for a side in our position, and a net profit of well over £30 million on trading. 

That is the sort of income that doesn't come around very often and when it does it should be used to fund a massive comprehensive rebuild of the squad and club, funding new assets to be sold down the line.

I've barely touched on wages suffice to say that aside from Gallagher there should be nobody left on competitive Championship wages and with another round of departures coming that wage bill will surely be as low as it can realistically get.

It's the 'model' they've sold to us for the last few years, only they seem to have forgotten about the reinvest part.

It's the model that other clubs have followed and I've been told is the only way we can compete, by reinvesting profits into trading rather than relying on the owners pumping it in.

Well we've now got the cash. PNE don't. Millwall don't. Cardiff don't. 

The money the owners will have budgeted to come over to Rovers - the '£20 million' a year or whatever it is - will still be in their budgets. So why isn't the bonus money from these sales being used on top of the owners' money, or at least partly on top of?

 

 

 

If we are lucky, we will spend a few quid on a couple of gallons of bleach and a roll of film. We can then take some pictures of the filthy condition of the ground to show to Waggott  and clean the place up, so that the ground looks half decent for the TV. No need to touch the Riverside as no one will see that, do that should save us spending too much. 

[martonrover]

3 hours ago, yankfan said:

I know JDT is gone but I’d much rather be handing him a £20 m+ million transfer budget than Eustace. Not like anyone’s getting that sort of funding but if they were. 

Broughton is responsible for transfers. JDT was quoted as saying he was consulted to give a final "yay" or "nay", but he did not source the players.

Eustace will be the same as he is also the Head Coach, not the Manager.

Edited May 7 by martonrover

[TheRevAshton]

If we want to survive next season; we need at least 3/4 quality permanent signings. Plus decent loans.

If we want to challenge next season; we need at least 7/8 quality permanent signings. Plus decent loans.

Let's see how it plays out, i've personally lost all belief in them, and think we're in for a very bad season.

Edited May 7 by TheRevAshton

[Bronzed A Donis]

16 hours ago, islander200 said:

What I don't understand is we lose £20 million per year every year?

When our top earner was Rhodes on 35k a week and had other high earners the owners had to put in £20 million to keep us afloat.

Now we have the third lowest wage  budget in the league and spend hardly anything in the transfer market but we still have to find £20 million,?

This baffles me too, its pretty much been the same reported losses for about 10 years, no matter what.

I am sure someone more accounts savvy will be able to explain, but it feels to the cynic in me this is golden figure for losses for some some of tax benefit/ relief on the books somewhere within the conglomerate and why it's beneficial to have Venkys London Ltd as an accounts tool.

Anyway, I don't think we will spend much if anything because it's going to service the running costs, despite it probably being the healthiest chunk of incoming transfer fees in years, with Wharton, Raya and likely Szmodics perhaps ever?

Not heard a peep on Maguire have we since the shambles. We need at least 6 or 7 first teamers and a giant red button and a huge clock/alarm on the PC so we can't "forget" to complete the signings we do convince to come.

Starts with a new keeper, I'd want a new RB and LB, although I don't think Pickering is as bad as is made out.

A Winger who goes to the byline,  2 new strikers just to start.

Edited May 7 by Bronzed A Donis

[47er]

5 minutes ago, TheRevAshton said:

If we want to survive next season; we need at least 3/4 quality signings.

 

I don't think 3/4 is enough.

[TheRevAshton]

6 minutes ago, 47er said:

I don't think 3/4 is enough.

Apologies I didn't specify, I meant permanent signings of a good quality, not including loans etc. (will edit)

You're right, 3/4 in total would be nowhere near enough!

Edited May 7 by TheRevAshton

[Torgeir]

10 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Wow, bizarre take IMO. Conway was quality for us. Best winger we've had since relegation, hands down. Delivery was excellent.

League positions with him as an instrumental part of our side:

 

2013/14: 8th, 18 apps (signed in January '14)

2014/15: 9th, 38 apps

2015/16: 15th 35 apps

2016/17: 22nd (relegated), 42 apps

2017/18: 2nd (promoted), 24 apps

2018/19: 15th: 21 apps

 

Regression 

 

 

 

[davulsukur]

Will we be hearing anything from Gregg the Egg, or will it be radio silence until the window shuts?