v Sheffield Wednesday (h) - 21/04/2024

[Mashed Potatoes]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

He had to go, and quickly, as the owners can’t meet their obligations, due to them being under investigation for financial impropriety - so let’s be fair to them.

No - let's be realistic about the position that the employees at Ewood Park were placed in. I'm not interested in defending the owners who are useless.

[Mattyblue]

So you don’t think we should ‘be fair’ to the owners?

Thank god for that, as that’s a devil’s advocate too far even for you.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

So you don’t think we should ‘be fair’ to the owners?

Thank god for that, as that’s a devil’s advocate too far even for you.

As far as I know the only people talking about being fair to the owners are you and Steve Waggott ? When I say be fair to the club I mean the people at Ewood Park.

[Mattyblue]

We’ve billionaire owners yet we are selling our Crown Jewels to ensure we can carry on paying the PAYE of the poor sods in admin roles etc. on c20/30k a year.

Obviously they deserve all our sympathy, but obviously that doesn’t negate the impact its had on the team, which was Windy’s actual point.

Edited April 22 by Mattyblue

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

We’ve billionaire owners yet we are selling our Crown Jewels to ensure we can carry on paying the PAYE of the poor sods in admin roles etc. on c20/30k a year.

Obviously they deserve all our sympathy, but in what way does that negate the impact its had on the team, which was Windy’s actual point?

Nowhere have I negated the overall impact of their incompetence. But that began in 2010 with the dismissal of Allardyce and his replacement by Kean. The situation that those now employed at Ewood Park now face requires some very difficult decisions by them.

[47er]

18 hours ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

If we are trying to position ourselves as a development club for promising youngsters - we can't put too many blockers on players leaving providing our price is met. Where it all fell down is recruitment  - we spent what was big money for us on Kaminski's replacement - showing a reasonable profit overall - how the deficiencies in Leo's game wasn't picked up is down to the scouting (unless he is struggling to settle in this country and ends up a world beater - we can but hope)

Kaminski was't a promising youngster though was he? He was the real deal. If he had been kept we wouldn't be fighting relegation now.

That's how important that bit of business was.

And since we spent "big money"  on a replacement---what did we get? At best---one for the future.

Well the future is now.

Edited April 23 by 47er

[Southside Rover]

7 hours ago, arbitro said:

I honestly don't know and found it strange. At the time I just thought he was consoling him. I always found it safer to keep out of a players way for a while after they had dropped a bollock.

Maybe he said "nice one Pearsy, I'll see to it that you get half of my winnings"

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

12 hours ago, 47er said:

Kaminski was't a promising youngster though was he? He was the real deal. If he had been kept we wouldn't be fighting relegation now.

That's how important that bit of business was.

And since we spent "big money"  on a replacement---what did we get? At best---one for the future.

Well the future is now.

Strange thing - though Kaminski was better than what we have now - he wouldn't be in my top 10 keepers from my time watching Rovers (goes back to Howard Kendall era) - just shows how far we have dropped in the quality of our keepers.

[47er]

1 minute ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Strange thing - though Kaminski was better than what we have now - he wouldn't be in my top 10 keepers from my time watching Rovers (goes back to Howard Kendall era) - just shows how far we have dropped in the quality of our keepers.

Best we had since Brad. He is heaps better than you suggest.

[Groundhog]

9 minutes ago, 47er said:

Best we had since Brad. He is heaps better than you suggest.

Exactly, TK was an international keeper.

The goalkeeping issue alone at Rovers is like a condensed version of our plight over the last few years, a metaphor for the club's struggles overall.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

19 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

To be fair, I don't think the club had any choice regarding Phillips and the Wharton sale was driven by a court case in India.

In the end the club had little choice regarding the sale of Phillips because of the poor way they dealt with his transition to being professional. The court case was a nicely timed coincidence to allow the sale of Wharton without many questions. He'd have been sold without the court case as the club had let it be known what their valuation was.

[SpaceBarSlam]

13 hours ago, 47er said:

Kaminski was't a promising youngster though was he? He was the real deal. If he had been kept we wouldn't be fighting relegation now.

That's how important that bit of business was.

And since we spent "big money"  on a replacement---what did we get? At best---one for the future.

Well the future is now.

Kaminski wouldn't have just been the difference this season, but I strongly felt that not bringing him back in when Pears' form dropped off last season was the difference that meant we missed out on the play offs. 

[tomphil]

31 minutes ago, SpaceBarSlam said:

Kaminski wouldn't have just been the difference this season, but I strongly felt that not bringing him back in when Pears' form dropped off last season was the difference that meant we missed out on the play offs. 

Iv'e said it many times since we aren't losing that pathetic last min goal to Coventry at Ewood with TK in the sticks.

Main difference is though he was a keeper who earns points with vital saves at crucial points in games, Pears and his ilk still make good stops but 9/10 a half decent effort will beat him too easily.

It''s those fine margins between real class and bang average.

[Mashed Potatoes]

6 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

In the end the club had little choice regarding the sale of Phillips because of the poor way they dealt with his transition to being professional. The court case was a nicely timed coincidence to allow the sale of Wharton without many questions. He'd have been sold without the court case as the club had let it be known what their valuation was.

How did the club deal with Phillips' transition to being professional in a poor way ? 

[dingles staying down 4ever]

11 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

How did the club deal with Phillips' transition to being professional in a poor way ? 

Agreeing to such a small a release clause as 2 mill even when Philips signed pro was asking for premiership clubs to plunder. 

 

[wilsdenrover]

1 hour ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Agreeing to such a small a release clause as 2 mill even when Philips signed pro was asking for premiership clubs to plunder. 

 

Surely whether that was a fuck up by us depends on whether he’d have still signed without a clause/if the clause was higher.

As shit as our club is, I think ‘the system’ is the main culprit in this case.

It will probably end up the same with Finneran (if we even manage to keep him until he can sign a pro contract) and may well have happened with Wharton had he not been a Rovers fan.

[Mashed Potatoes]

2 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Agreeing to such a small a release clause as 2 mill even when Philips signed pro was asking for premiership clubs to plunder. 

 

But if he wouldn't have signed a contract at all without that release clause he could have walked for next to nothing.

[47er]

8 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

But if he wouldn't have signed a contract at all without that release clause he could have walked for next to nothing.

It would depend on how much money he was offered and on the ambition of the owners.

[Mashed Potatoes]

8 minutes ago, 47er said:

It would depend on how much money he was offered and on the ambition of the owners.

However much ambition an owner might have I don't think it's realistic to imagine that a club in the Championship could match an offer from a Premier League club if that club really wanted the player. There's also the question of the lure of the Premier League which for some players - maybe more their families and representatives - will override considerations of what might be in the best long term interests of the player.

[tomphil]

Phillips was happy to trade becoming an established first teamer here in a side that finished 7th with the prospect of getting many games/experience and a big money move down the line. Instead it was double or treble the wages, a London penthouse and a loan to Plymouth.

Forget him, he'll still be plodding around the loan market in the Championship next season and probably the season after.

It was all on him and his agent.

[47er]

51 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

However much ambition an owner might have I don't think it's realistic to imagine that a club in the Championship could match an offer from a Premier League club if that club really wanted the player. There's also the question of the lure of the Premier League which for some players - maybe more their families and representatives - will override considerations of what might be in the best long term interests of the player.

He could have been persuaded tp stay longer maybe, I don't know.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

4 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

Surely whether that was a fuck up by us depends on whether he’d have still signed without a clause/if the clause was higher.

As shit as our club is, I think ‘the system’ is the main culprit in this case.

It will probably end up the same with Finneran (if we even manage to keep him until he can sign a pro contract) and may well have happened with Wharton had he not been a Rovers fan.

Fair point but if your entire business model is based on developing youth and selling for profit then your plan is badly flawed and doomed to failure so yes the club is to blame for the situation.

[wilsdenrover]

15 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Fair point but if your entire business model is based on developing youth and selling for profit then your plan is badly flawed and doomed to failure so yes the club is to blame for the situation.

I don’t agree they’re to blame for the Philips situation but I do agree a business model which is difficult/impossible to achieve (due to the current system) is a flawed one.

Edited April 24 by wilsdenrover

[arbitro]

8 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

I don’t agree they’re to blame for the Philips situation but I do agree a business model which is difficult/impossible to achieve (due to the current system) is a flawed one.

And the Broughton/Venky model will become increasingly more difficult I believe. The likes of Wharton and Phillips were given a platform by Tomasson and the big clubs began to take notice. But I honestly can't see any young home grown players being given the same opportunity under Eustace who certainly seems to trust the senior players rather than youngsters. A big thing was made of Broughton getting lots of deals done with quite a few youngsters but in reality how many of these would be deemed good enough to break through to the first team. The likes of Gamble, Batty, Vale and others will possibly be released soon. 

[wilsdenrover]

4 hours ago, arbitro said:

And the Broughton/Venky model will become increasingly more difficult I believe. The likes of Wharton and Phillips were given a platform by Tomasson and the big clubs began to take notice. But I honestly can't see any young home grown players being given the same opportunity under Eustace who certainly seems to trust the senior players rather than youngsters. A big thing was made of Broughton getting lots of deals done with quite a few youngsters but in reality how many of these would be deemed good enough to break through to the first team. The likes of Gamble, Batty, Vale and others will possibly be released soon. 

The big clubs also keep an eye on youth football and hoover up anything and everything they can get their hands on.

They don’t even need any of them to work out for this method to be successful as the minuscule ‘compensation’ they have to pay for academy players is easily recouped through loaning them out to the lower divisions.

The whole system is set up for the benefit of the big clubs (see also, no more FA cup replays)