England - Thomas Tuchel then…

[Silas]

PP bang on the money again:

 

[AspRover]

8 minutes ago, rigger said:

And your point is ?

The last few pages have had a debate over whether a non-english manager can or should manage an England football team. That we have a non English manager in charge of an England football team and that she has won a major tournament seems relevant to me.

[Wheelton Blue]

Hypothetically, should England ever appoint a non-English manager and somehow manage to win a tournament, those throwing their arms in the air over 'the England manager should be English' would soon go quiet I'd wager.

[Blow-in]

2 hours ago, Silas said:

I can't think of a time when it has been so universally agreed that the England manager is getting things massively wrong. 

Mike Basset.

[RevidgeBlue]

59 minutes ago, Silas said:

PP bang on the money again:

 

That's absolute quality.

(Although I don't even think Saka has been that good tbf)

[DeeCee]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Good post, totally agree his time is up; no-one apart from the FA really wanted him to carry on after relative failure in the Euro Final and he hummed and haa'd before eventually deciding to limp on and as you say things now look exceptionally stale as a result.

Imo it looks like there's something seriously amiss within the camp, after sitting through  two games of walking football from our point of view the one incident that annoyed me the most was last night when Pickford charged up to the half way line to demand the ball off one of the centre halves. At that point you naturally assume he's going to wave the defender forward and launch the ball himself. But no, he passed the ball three yards sideways to the CH and retreated back to his goal. I was left screaming at the screen "What's the point in that?"

For me the players aren't buying into this at all so far and don't seem to have any belief or enthusiasm for what they're being asked to do or how they're being asked to play. The only hope imo is that there's a players revolt and they decide to completely ignore the wet one and go out and try and tear the opposition a new one and see where it takes us.

that point you naturally assume he's going to wave the defender forward and launch the ball himself. But no, he passed the ball three yards sideways to the CH and retreated back to his goal. I was left screaming at the screen "What's the point in that?" 

Twice 🙄

[wilsdenrover]

7 hours ago, K-Hod said:

I’m still not over that Kalvin Phillips comment, it’s just an absolute shocker, especially after that performance.

Swear down, if Southgate drove a Lambo, he’d stick to the left lane of the motorway and never overtake anyone….

He’d use it to tow his caravan 

[Mercer]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why is Gallagher hapless? Good box to box player. Pressing the ball, put his foot in. 

Not English. I have said the England manager should be English. I don't think Klopp would suit international football management 

Gallagher is a tamer version of Robbie Savage - for a start, he can't pass the feckin ball and would give us no control of the game, just charging around like a headless chicken.  Vastly overrated and not what England need.

As regards the manager's job, how small minded is that!!!  I don't care what nationality the guy is, what colour he is or what religion he is.  The acid test is can he make us a better and more successful football team.  I remember the day we won the World Cup back in 1966 - it was a joyous, momentous occasion and one I hope to see repeated before I pop my clogs.  Klopp would be terrific - hugely passionate, resonates with the fans and plays terrific and exciting football - everything Southgate isn't and doesn't.

By the way, your utterly bizarre thinking would have denied England the services of players like John Barnes, Terry Butcher and Owen Hargreaves all born overseas.

[wilsdenrover]

6 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Gallagher is a tamer version of Robbie Savage - for a start, he can't pass the feckin ball and would give us no control of the game, just charging around like a headless chicken.  Vastly overrated and not what England need.

As regards the manager's job, how small minded is that!!!  I don't care what nationality the guy is, what colour he is or what religion he is.  The acid test is can he make us a better and more successful football team.  I remember the day we won the World Cup back in 1966 - it was a joyous, momentous occasion and one I hope to see repeated before I pop my clogs.  Klopp would be terrific - hugely passionate, resonates with the fans and plays terrific and exciting football - everything Southgate isn't and doesn't.

By the way, your utterly bizarre thinking would have denied England the services of players like John Barnes, Terry Butcher and Owen Hargreaves all born overseas.

and one of the current starting 11…

[riverholmes]

Some interesting comments by Southgate in a press conference on England's defensive press options: "We know with the profile of players that we've got, we don't feel the way to press is really high up the pitch. I don't think that's the physical level of the team at the moment either. But we've got to find a way of being more compact and more difficult to play against than we found in the last three halves of football.”

I can only guess that Southgate is implying the older players like Kane, Walker and Trippier are not capable of the intense press. Or, perhaps, he's just referring to Kane. Gary Linekar has strongly argued that Kane has got to change his game and lead a high press, even if he's not the most athletic.

Playing high press isn't the only option for a team, though, it's pretty common in the Premier League. However, at some point, there has to be an intense press, whether that's on the half-way line or beyond. England don't seem to have found that intensity yet.

Edited June 21 by riverholmes

[simongarnerisgod]

how do you get so little out of so many class players????it`s almost steve kean like levels of incompetence

[Ianrally]

18 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Gallagher is a tamer version of Robbie Savage - for a start, he can't pass the feckin ball and would give us no control of the game, just charging around like a headless chicken.  Vastly overrated and not what England need.

As regards the manager's job, how small minded is that!!!  I don't care what nationality the guy is, what colour he is or what religion he is.  The acid test is can he make us a better and more successful football team.  I remember the day we won the World Cup back in 1966 - it was a joyous, momentous occasion and one I hope to see repeated before I pop my clogs.  Klopp would be terrific - hugely passionate, resonates with the fans and plays terrific and exciting football - everything Southgate isn't and doesn't.

By the way, your utterly bizarre thinking would have denied England the services of players like John Barnes, Terry Butcher and Owen Hargreaves all born overseas.

And Joe Baker, born in Scotland I think. 

I’m obviously of your era and watched England win the World Cup on TV while visiting my grandmother in Glasgow. What a place to witness that victory. 

[speeeeeeedie]

What also bothers me about yesterday is that a win would have guaranteed top spot in the group. The 3rd game could have been used to give everybody a game, but not now.

[simongarnerisgod]

17 minutes ago, riverholmes said:

Playing high press isn't the only option for a team, though, it's pretty common in the Premier League. However, at some point, there has to be an intense press, whether that's on the half-way line or beyond. England don't seem to have found that intensity yet.

is high press the modern way of saying "close the opposition down" id`e say it was the one job every footballer has to do,if you can`t or won`t close down then you should`nt be playing

[jim mk2]

28 minutes ago, Mercer said:

By the way, your utterly bizarre thinking would have denied England the services of players like John Barnes, Terry Butcher and Owen Hargreaves all born overseas.

The Alf Garnetts of this world also forget England cricket - Colin Cowdrey, born in India; Ted Dexter - born in Italy; Ben Stokes - born Christchurch, NZ, and countless others. 

 

[sympatheticclaret]

I was thinking about the many pundits who've been bemoaning Southgate's habit of selecting " square pegs in round holes ", putting players in unaccustomed positions, to get them in the team .... There might be a lesson from history here ....

Jack Charlton was surprised to be included in England's 22 man squad for the 1966 World Cup and was even more surprised to be selected for the starting XI ...... he subsequently asked manager Sir Alf Ramsey why he had picked him. Charlton revealed Ramsey's deadpan response was: "I pick the best team for my pattern of play, Jack - I don't always pick the best players."

Food for thought ?

[arbitro]

40 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

The Alf Garnetts of this world also forget England cricket - Colin Cowdrey, born in India; Ted Dexter - born in Italy; Ben Stokes - born Christchurch, NZ, and countless others. 

 

I don't really follow cricket but isn't the current England coach from New Zealand?

[simongarnerisgod]

6 minutes ago, sympatheticclaret said:

I was thinking about the many pundits who've been bemoaning Southgate's habit of selecting " square pegs in round holes ", putting players in unaccustomed positions, to get them in the team .... There might be a lesson from history here ....

Jack Charlton was surprised to be included in England's 22 man squad for the 1966 World Cup and was even more surprised to be selected for the starting XI ...... he subsequently asked manager Sir Alf Ramsey why he had picked him. Charlton revealed Ramsey's deadpan response was: "I pick the best team for my pattern of play, Jack - I don't always pick the best players."

Food for thought ?

sir alf did`nt play him out of position though

[wilsdenrover]

16 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I don't really follow cricket but isn't the current England coach from New Zealand?

Only the test match team 

The white ball coach is from Australia

Double whammy eh 😁🤔
 

 

Edited June 21 by wilsdenrover

[jim mk2]

5 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I don't really follow cricket but isn't the current England coach from New Zealand?

Brendon McCullum, and the person who doesn't want Klopp as England football manager because he's German, is a big supporter of "Baz ball". England cricket has had a number of foreign coaches in recent years - Fletcher, Flower, Bayliss - and they've all been very good, much better than the English ones.

I'd be very pleased to see the likes of Klopp as England football manager. Foreign coaches understand the game much better than ours and it's no coincidence that some of the most successful managers/coaches in the Premier League have not been from these shores. 

[sympatheticclaret]

11 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

Sir Alf didn't play him out of position though

That was my point .... 

[matt83]

21 minutes ago, sympatheticclaret said:

I was thinking about the many pundits who've been bemoaning Southgate's habit of selecting " square pegs in round holes ", putting players in unaccustomed positions, to get them in the team .... There might be a lesson from history here ....

Jack Charlton was surprised to be included in England's 22 man squad for the 1966 World Cup and was even more surprised to be selected for the starting XI ...... he subsequently asked manager Sir Alf Ramsey why he had picked him. Charlton revealed Ramsey's deadpan response was: "I pick the best team for my pattern of play, Jack - I don't always pick the best players."

Food for thought ?

Before my time but wasn’t jimmy greaves not selected for that reason. 🤷‍♂️. I don’t know maybe he was injured but surely the better bet than hurst in the final. 

[simongarnerisgod]

8 minutes ago, matt83 said:

Before my time but wasn’t jimmy greaves not selected for that reason. 🤷‍♂️. I don’t know maybe he was injured but surely the better bet than hurst in the final. 

i think he got a nasty cut to the shin in an earlier game and sir alf did`nt think it had healed enough for him to start

[rigger]

14 minutes ago, matt83 said:

Before my time but wasn’t jimmy greaves not selected for that reason. 🤷‍♂️. I don’t know maybe he was injured but surely the better bet than hurst in the final. 

Hurst vindicated his selection.

[Ianrally]

3 minutes ago, rigger said:

Hurst vindicated his selection.

And he too was shocked when he was picked. 
Players those days didn’t think they were better than anyone else in the squad. But for sure they were confident of beating the opposition.