January Transfer window

[bluebruce]

10 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I disagree strongly. It would have been insanity to sell one of our best players to our main rivals for the 2nd promotion spot.

The fact Mowbray was up for it says everything about him.

Tbf, in hindsight it would have been the right move. Only because we failed to reach the playoffs and lost him for free anyway. But at the time it was a tough decision. It could have gone exactly how it did, or Rothwell could have proved the difference for us and got us promoted.

The reason it went how it did is probably partly due to Rothwell's shitty attitude and application after he didn't get his move. Something that tbf the manager would have been best placed to predict. So he should probably have been backed there.

(Obviously the ideal scenario would've been keeping him, and Venkys not being pricks and actually backing the manager with funds...hell who knows if they'd have even done that if they had approved the sale.)

[Hasta]

People are missing the point. If the manager and footballing staff want to (need to) do it to fund incomings (whether that be Mowbray or Gestede / Eustace) then it’s their job. They should be allowed to if it is within agreed budgets.

Whether you, I or the owners disagree shouldn’t matter. The Dolan situation is purely hypothetically but whether the fee is 1.5mill or 4 mill is irrelevant.

If the owners don’t trust the footballing staff’s judgement then they should be employing someone they do trust.

Edited Sunday at 23:27 by Hasta

[...]

I like Dolan. I think you need people like him in a squad to remind others to give 110%. Lad can hunt people down and win interceptions well, he can be a handful at times just wish he had better shooting boots. I for one would be sad to see him leave

[JHRover]

Mowbray, Eustace or anyone else would be bonkers to believe that the sale of a Rothwell or Dolan or anyone else would lead to cash being available to strengthen the rest of the squad.

Has that ever happened before under the poison?

Of course they and we would be led to believe it would happen. Then come the excuses that we've heard a million times before:

FFP, cycles, difficult time to do business, admin errors, jam tomorrow, summer will be different, new structure coming, loans aren't free you know etc. etc.

I'm talking full reinvestment of millions of pounds, not a couple of loans/cheap deals and a few million squirrelled away never to be seen again.

 

[onlyonejackwalker]

2 hours ago, bluebruce said:

As I said earlier, in the period in question, Gibson's Boro at least made it into the Prem, and a few times (3 I think I said) into the playoffs. We may have started in the Prem in that period but Venkys promptly got us relegated and haven't gotten us into the playoffs once since. They did however get us relegated again.

Nobody is saying Gibson is the litmus test of a perfect football club owner, but he's a fucking damned sight better than Venkys and if you don't agree you're either a WUM or braindead, sorry. Despite him being nowhere near as wealthy. Being willing to risk his own personal fortune only puts him even further ahead of Venkys.

When I see clubs like Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford, Forest and Fulham all thriving in the PL and the likes of Ipswich, Wolves, Palace, Leicester etc all currently resident in the PL I see well operated football clubs.

When I see the likes of Rovers, Wednesday, Sunderland, QPR, Boro, Coventry, Derby, Stoke I see medium or bigger sized clubs that have been very badly managed. 

Both Gibson and the Venkys are specialists in waxing huge money to remain in the Championship. I'm not sure that deserves much credit.

As this is the transfer thread the wider point being that clubs losing fortunes week in, week out, don't magically have huge wads of cash suddenly lying around in January to splurge on a promotion push. Unless they wish to incur further losses.

One poster on here thinks we've got at least 15 million in our sky rocket to splurge on a promotion push. Others think the Venkys should lose 30 million each year instead of the 'poultry' 17 million.

There's a reason even the well respected fan owners don't wax even greater amounts chasing their losses.

 

[Andy]

I genuinely expect Waggott and his shadow Director mates to be the restricting factor.

Previous managers have publicly said that the owners will spend/send money when it's requested & justified - the likes of Mowbray used to go over to discuss face-to-face with them.

I'm not in the business of defending them for a second, but I genuinely think Waggott and Pasha are the ones with their grubby mitts firmly on the handbrake.

[roversfan99]

11 minutes ago, Andy said:

I genuinely expect Waggott and his shadow Director mates to be the restricting factor.

Previous managers have publicly said that the owners will spend/send money when it's requested & justified - the likes of Mowbray used to go over to discuss face-to-face with them.

I'm not in the business of defending them for a second, but I genuinely think Waggott and Pasha are the ones with their grubby mitts firmly on the handbrake.

Waggott and Pasha have both been here for ages, including when Mowbray was here. Makes no sense. And doesnt benefit them, why would they do that?

Venkys have in the past couple of years in particular started slashing the budget beyond reasonable levels. Theyve become embroiled in self inflicted legal disputes and their interest seems to wane further every year.

[Rover1984]

12 minutes ago, Andy said:

I genuinely expect Waggott and his shadow Director mates to be the restricting factor.

Previous managers have publicly said that the owners will spend/send money when it's requested & justified - the likes of Mowbray used to go over to discuss face-to-face with them.

I'm not in the business of defending them for a second, but I genuinely think Waggott and Pasha are the ones with their grubby mitts firmly on the handbrake.

 How would it benefit them? Unless they are on some sort of Bonus that relates to reaching financial targets is the only way

[Leonard Venkhater]

56 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I disagree strongly. It would have been insanity to sell one of our best players to our main rivals for the 2nd promotion spot.

The fact Mowbray was up for it says everything about him.

I always thought Rothwell flattered to deceive. The reported Bournemouth offer for his services made selling him a no-brainer for me.

How we could have strengthened, using the money!

Granted, the decision would have been much easier for me, because I was far from a Rothwell fan anyway.

Edited Sunday at 22:20 by Leonard Venkhater

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

14 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

I always thought Rothwell flattered to deceive. The reported Bournemouth offer for his services made selling him a no-brainer for me.

How we could have strengthened, using the money!

Granted, the decision would have been much easier for me, because I was far from a Rothwell fan anyway.

Me too. He didn’t do enough often enough for me. He’d have a good 20 minutes in a game. He didn’t do much for Leeds when I’ve seen him recently.

[jim mk2]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It was a hypothetical about Dolan jim.

Shame, I thought it was a brief glimmer of good news on a horrible weekend 

[Torgeir]

5 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

apparently eustace went beserk at cantwell for his lazy offside and immediately after doing his press interviews went straight to gestede about "players,budgets and other stuff" rudi is now in charge of recruitment by all accounts,swag was nowhere to be seen after the final whistle,probably scoffing the left overs from the boardroom buffet,eustace is happy with the job and his players but definately wants 2/3 incomings ,he`s very easy going usually but can get quite testy if he does`nt get his own way on football matters

Could see he was fired up after the game and had some words with Scott Parker (knob).

Totally feasible story, Eustace definitely has some bite in him. Wish he was going to see John Williams and not Gestede though. Rudi has a lot left to prove.

Edited Sunday at 23:11 by Torgeir

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

When I see clubs like Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford, Forest and Fulham all thriving in the PL and the likes of Ipswich, Wolves, Palace, Leicester etc all currently resident in the PL I see well operated football clubs.

When I see the likes of Rovers, Wednesday, Sunderland, QPR, Boro, Coventry, Derby, Stoke I see medium or bigger sized clubs that have been very badly managed. 

Both Gibson and the Venkys are specialists in waxing huge money to remain in the Championship. I'm not sure that deserves much credit.

As this is the transfer thread the wider point being that clubs losing fortunes week in, week out, don't magically have huge wads of cash suddenly lying around in January to splurge on a promotion push. Unless they wish to incur further losses.

One poster on here thinks we've got at least 15 million in our sky rocket to splurge on a promotion push. Others think the Venkys should lose 30 million each year instead of the 'poultry' 17 million.

There's a reason even the well respected fan owners don't wax even greater amounts chasing their losses.

 

Gibson's operation of Boro hasn't been majorly successful in recent years (but still far moreso than Venkys), so I agree you couldn't put them in the category of a Brentford or Brighton for being well ran recently. But he also won a lot of credit in the bank for essentially overseeing Boro's glory years. Their only real trophy, a UEFA Cup final and an FA Cup final. A good stint in the Prem, with quality players like Juninho and Ravanelli. He is in an utterly different league to Venkys as an owner, even with their recent underachievement relative to his financial input.

You say they're waxing huge amounts to stay in the Championship...but at least they have indeed stayed in it, plus a promotion. Three playoff spot finishes too, the playoffs are a lottery. A bit more luck and they'd have more promotions too. We haven't even once reached the playoffs since we came down, and until recent seasons almost never even sat in the playoff spots mid-season. Again even with the underachievement, it's been a far better underachievement than ours.

As for what Venkys should spend...every fucking penny they can spare and are allowed to put in within the rules. This is their mess, plain and simple. I could understand them tightening the purse strings if they were willing to sell the club, but they aren't willing to even entertain bids for the club, and they've had interest they turned away out of hand. If they're not going to put their hands in their pockets anymore they need to fuck off.

Personally I think 15 mill is a bit much perhaps, but there should have been about 8-10 million of the 40 million we've reaped in fees made available (I think the poster you mention perhaps forgot those signings will need decent wages too). Those well-ran clubs you mentioned have reinvested bigger proportions than that from their sales when they were down here.

[RevidgeBlue]

16 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I know from the horses mouth that whatever JE, or Waggot for that matter think they can spend matters not. Suhail runs the whole show and those numbers and budgets can change by the minute. It’s a shit show. 

I'm surprised more people haven't picked up on this.

Just for the sake of clarity are you claiming that Suhail decides how much the budget is and the owners just go along with whatever recommendation he makes, but that recommendation changes depending on what sort of mood he's in or what side of the bed he's got out of on any given day?

That would be fairly crazy even by Venky standards but it might go some way to explaining the downright bat shit crazy events of 12 months ago when a permanent move for a player was seemingly authorised, then cancelled mid flight, then a loan deal with an option to purchase on far less favourable terms subsequently agreed, then said loan deal sabotaged either intentionally or unwittingly due to negligence.

Edited Monday at 00:16 by RevidgeBlue

[Dreams of 1995]

4 hours ago, bluebruce said:

You're almost certainly not, then. Especially over 90 minutes. You might feel it, but I bet anything that if you had numbers from your fastest 100 metres when you were 21 and your fastest 100 metres now, and the same for running a mile, your figures now would be lower, particularly if you haven't been looking after yourself. I know at 40 I feel like I'm more or less the same speed as my youth for a short burst (but I flag quickly), and at 31 still felt pretty sharp and able to get about when I could stay injury-free long enough to get fit, but I bet there were still marginal differences. Which when playing top end football makes more than a marginal difference.

Absolutely though, pro players do look after themselves better than they used to. Some retain their speed to surprising ages. C. Ronaldo is 40 in February, but he's still quicker than most of our players. Of course, he is also a freak, genetically and in terms of how he looks after himself. And he's also slower than he used to be.

Schlupp may be in great nick and may have retained his pace. Or he may not. I've no idea as I haven't been watching. It increasingly becomes a risk in your 30s though. And even if you've kept it, it can start to go abruptly, especially if you get an injury.

You underestimate how slow I was at 21…

But in all seriousness, I don’t think professional athletes lose their pace at 32. Schlupp has been about sports scientists all of his pro career. He will have had nutritionists and full recovery / physio after any match, workout etc. We shouldn’t worry about his pace

He does have a higher injury risk, sure.

I also think the first two yards are in the head. As I have got older, where I position myself on the pitch has got better. There’s a lot to be said for that experience and Schlupp has plenty of it. He has a promotion from this league and then plenty of PL experience. Get him in the building 

[bluebruce]

22 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You underestimate how slow I was at 21…

But in all seriousness, I don’t think professional athletes lose their pace at 32. Schlupp has been about sports scientists all of his pro career. He will have had nutritionists and full recovery / physio after any match, workout etc. We shouldn’t worry about his pace

He does have a higher injury risk, sure.

I also think the first two yards are in the head. As I have got older, where I position myself on the pitch has got better. There’s a lot to be said for that experience and Schlupp has plenty of it. He has a promotion from this league and then plenty of PL experience. Get him in the building 

Haha fair enough!

I'm not saying they all do. Some do. Some don't. I don't think there are many who have the same pace they had at 21 though. Plenty retain the majority of it, but relatively few are every inch as fast. I can't think of a single fast 32 year old we have had, can you? As I said, I haven't seen the lad lately, maybe he is still quick.

Experience is definitely beneficial. Like you I've also learnt more about positioning, how to exploit space, I've developed more tricks to overcome my lost pace, etc. Nobody is disputing his experience. But what this team is lacking is the ability to stretch teams on the counter, I think we are doing about as well as we can with that without adding some genuine pace.

Experience is handy and it will be a definite plus to potentially signing him, but it's not the be all. Weimann is the same age with tons of experience, albeit not as much of it in the Prem. Some games he looks quality, some games he looks over the hill.

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm surprised more people haven't picked up on this.

Just for the sake of clarity are you claiming that Suhail decides how much the budget is and the owners just go along with whatever recommendation he makes, but that recommendation changes depending on what sort of mood he's in or what side of the bed he's got out of on any given day?

That would be fairly crazy even by Venky standards but it might go some way to explaining the downright bat shit crazy events of 12 months ago when a permanent move for a player was seemingly authorised, then cancelled mid flight, then a loan deal with an option to purchase on far less favourable terms subsequently agreed, then said loan deal sabotaged either intentionally or unwittingly due to negligence.

The board prepare everything in line with a standard directorship. But SW is only the CEO in name. EVERY decision goes past Suhail and this 100% explains some of those crazy scenarios.

The incident you’re talking about however was SW and Suhail pulling the plug on GB spending £5m on an MLS Striker as they had run out of confidence in the GB / JDT regime. JE was being lined up by SW, and his appt along with GB/JDT removal had been agreed with Suhail. The most notable U-turn is that, SW offered JE the £5m (From the American) to spend in the summer, if he took the job and kept us up. JE agreed, kept us up and then ‘the club’ (Suhail) decided against that spend in the summer and the manager subsequently offered his resignation on two occasions. All resolved in the end with a mid ground met, plus the Cantwell sweetener ar the end of the window.

Edited Monday at 01:36 by Paul Mani

[lraC]

46 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

The board prepare everything in line with a standard directorship. But SW is only the CEO in name. EVERY decision goes past Suhail and this 100% explains some of those crazy scenarios.

The incident you’re talking about however was SW and Suhail pulling the plug on GB spending £5m on an MLS Striker as they had run out of confidence in the GB / JDT regime. JE was being lined up by SW, and his appt along with GB/JDT removal had been agreed with Suhail. The most notable U-turn is that, SW offered JE the £5m (From the American) to spend in the summer, if he took the job and kept us up. JE agreed, kept us up and then ‘the club’ (Suhail) decided against that spend in the summer and the manager subsequently offered his resignation on two occasions. All resolved in the end with a mid ground met, plus the Cantwell sweetener ar the end of the window.

Interesting and given what has been said on here about Eustace taking no shit , it could be a battle of wits between  Suhail and Eustace in the next 3 weeks. 
Do you think Eustace will be brave enough to call him out(JDT style) in the press, if they start playing the games they have done, in the last 3 January windows, or will an admin error on deadline day be forgiven? 

[lraC]

4 hours ago, JHRover said:

Mowbray, Eustace or anyone else would be bonkers to believe that the sale of a Rothwell or Dolan or anyone else would lead to cash being available to strengthen the rest of the squad.

Has that ever happened before under the poison?

Of course they and we would be led to believe it would happen. Then come the excuses that we've heard a million times before:

FFP, cycles, difficult time to do business, admin errors, jam tomorrow, summer will be different, new structure coming, loans aren't free you know etc. etc.

I'm talking full reinvestment of millions of pounds, not a couple of loans/cheap deals and a few million squirrelled away never to be seen again.

 

My current favorite is the explanation that we receive funds for out going transfers in stages, so what looks like £20m or £10m doesn’t really count. We always pay all of the incoming deals up front though (yeah right) so we need to buy cheap, or free. 

[Ghost7]

We made 3 signings for a fee in the 2023 season for a total of £1.45m. Wahlstedt, Nail Ennis and Telalovic. The rest were free. 

We sold:

Adam Wharton - £17.4m, Thomas Kaminski £2.4m, Ashley Philips £1.9m, Nail Ennis £485k

and received £22.2m in transfer fees.

This season we have spent money on 3 players for a total of £2.98m. The rest were free transfers again.

Makhtar Gueye for £1.5m, Balazs Toth for £995,000, Todd Cantwell for £490,000

We sold:

Sam Szmodics - £8.9m, Sam Gallagher - £1.49m, Wahlstedt - £830,000.

Receiving £11.2m in transfer fees. PLUS £4m in add ons for David Raya.

That’s a total of a total of £37.4m through player sales.

and £4.43m spent across 4 transfer windows or spending approx £1.1m per window.

An absolutely unacceptable level of reinvestment for the amount received and the quality of player lost.

… it's an astonishing amount through player sales for this level too. This is without the Adam Armstrong sale.

It’s no wonder we haven’t beat Burnley in 14 years, haven’t made the playoffs once… and most seasons are derailed after about 2 or 3 injuries due to a lack of squad depth.

In terms of ownership the above is called taking the piss and having zero interest.

To add to that a transfer budget should not be completely reliant on player sales. They are billionaires and yes... the Raya add on and sale of Nail Ennis alone covers our transfer spend across 4 windows........

Venky’s are a complete and utter disgrace.

Edited Monday at 02:34 by Ghost7

[islander200]

3 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

I always thought Rothwell flattered to deceive. The reported Bournemouth offer for his services made selling him a no-brainer for me.

How we could have strengthened, using the money!

Granted, the decision would have been much easier for me, because I was far from a Rothwell fan anyway.

I'd agree over his entire rovers career he did flatter to deceive however in that season where we were second going into January just above Bournemouth Rothwell had been one of our better players, his drive and industry from midfield had been pivotal and when he gave up our form as a whole took a down turn. 

In normal circumstances you would look to take the money for a player with 6 months left and reinvest it on a replacement but in my oopinion you shouldn't be selling to the team placed directly below you in 3rd place with more than half the season gone.

A gamble was taken that Rothwell would knuckle down but unfortunately it looks like he sulked and downed tools instead 

if they had have allowed a replacement for him, it wouldn't have been a player of similar ability it would have been a downgrade.Talk of Jed Wallace pie in the sky, wouldn't have paid his wages that others would offer, and he ended up leaving on a free in the summer anyway because Millwall wanted too much money for him that January 

 

[Paul Mani]

11 minutes ago, lraC said:

Interesting and given what has been said on here about Eustace taking no shit , it could be a battle of wits between  Suhail and Eustace in the next 3 weeks. 
Do you think Eustace will be brave enough to call him out(JDT style) in the press, if they start playing the games they have done, in the last 3 January windows, or will an admin error on deadline day be forgiven? 

JE doesn’t take any shit by the sounds of it. His stock is high and he can call the shots to an extent. But he’s not stupid enough to go toe to toe with his employers like JDT. His messaging is much more subtle and controlled.

Schlupp and Kent are JE picks if ever I’ve seen them. I’d give him what he wants, one things for sure, he won’t be short of job offers  now, if we do completely mess up the window again! 

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

The board prepare everything in line with a standard directorship. But SW is only the CEO in name. EVERY decision goes past Suhail and this 100% explains some of those crazy scenarios.

The incident you’re talking about however was SW and Suhail pulling the plug on GB spending £5m on an MLS Striker as they had run out of confidence in the GB / JDT regime. JE was being lined up by SW, and his appt along with GB/JDT removal had been agreed with Suhail. The most notable U-turn is that, SW offered JE the £5m (From the American) to spend in the summer, if he took the job and kept us up. JE agreed, kept us up and then ‘the club’ (Suhail) decided against that spend in the summer and the manager subsequently offered his resignation on two occasions. All resolved in the end with a mid ground met, plus the Cantwell sweetener ar the end of the window.

I remember you referring to JE offering to resign a while ago with no explanation as to the context.

If true about the £5m being withdrawn from JDT why did they then press ahead with a loan deal for Mcguire - did they know it was going to be scuttled in advance or was it a genuine cock up?

Also if they later agreed to advance Eustace £5m in summer and then backed out - is that not them going rogue or does Suhail have virtual autonomy over the budget in line with my original question.

Either way if JE did offer to resign twice that's two managers in a row now and the whole situation is completely untenable , he won't be here long.

[Paul Mani]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I remember you referring to JE offering to resign a while ago with no explanation as to the context.

If true about the £5m being withdrawn from JDT why did they then press ahead with a loan deal for Mcguire - did they know it was going to be scuttled in advance or was it a genuine cock up?

Also if they later agreed to advance Eustace £5m in summer and then backed out - is that not them going rogue or does Suhail have virtual autonomy over the budget in line with my original question.

Either way if JE did offer to resign twice that's two managers in a row now and the whole situation is completely untenable , he won't be here long.

From what I heard, at the time the board had serious misgivings about the direction being taken by GB / JDT. No idea why they didn’t do the loan…maybe there was a fee they didn’t like? 

In terms of the money, that’s just how it works apparently. Regardless of what’s been agreed across the ‘leadership team’ or whatever, the final say is Suhails and that is the end of it. He has full autonomy.

I think the situ with JE is interesting. I have no doubts that he did offer his resignation over the summer as the club stubbornly refused to spend the previously agreed cash. However, them relenting and spending a bit on Gueye and Ohashi, agreeing to Batth, Baker, Beck and Weimann and then sanctioning Cantwell who id imagine is costing a few quid, will have relaxed things. On a personal level, I also think JE needs some continuity…one thing is for sure. At Rovers, under Venkys, if you keep us up, you keep your job!

Either way, I see this window as being important to the relationship between JE and the club. Give him what he wants (he refers to a list) and everything will be fine. But if we mess it up then I think it could see him leave. My feeling is that he’ll stay until the summer at least.
 

 

Edited Monday at 06:01 by Paul Mani

[Ossydave]

It's bonkers how Suhail is just left to ruin the club unquestioned, outside of this message board I dare say the majority of our fans don't even know who he is.

Waggott gets a bit of grief but not exactly a lot, i can genuinely say I've never seen a single post on social media slating king rat though, ever.

Edited Monday at 07:23 by Ossydave