Useless Eustace?

[M_B]

There you go, an insight into how this board would have looked if we'd started poorly.

[roversfan99]

Yes, I imagine he would have been criticised had results been poor just as he has been praised because results have been good. Funny that.

[M_B]

21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Yes, I imagine he would have been criticised had results been poor just as he has been praised because results have been good. Funny that.

As I said after the Leicester match, I'd give him a clean slate from the start of the new season. Never saw the point of carrying the hand wringing of last season into this one, considering the situation he inherited.

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, M_B said:

As I said after the Leicester match, I'd give him a clean slate from the start of the new season. Never saw the point of carrying the hand wringing of last season into this one, considering the situation he inherited.

I think what this season has proved is that if Eustace went on to do well, which of course so far this season he very much has, people would lose the doubts they had and not allow them to linger.

In fact its gone the other way where people are seemingly intent on belittiling those who criticised him last year. Some criticism was valid at the time.

[M_B]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I think what this season has proved is that if Eustace went on to do well, which of course so far this season he very much has, people would lose the doubts they had and not allow them to linger.

In fact its gone the other way where people are seemingly intent on belittiling those who criticised him last year. Some criticism was valid at the time.

Some was undoubtedly valid, but he was brought in to do a job and thankfully did it. I just never saw the need to carry Stokegate and the rest of it into this season.

There is no doubt that a poor start would have seen his record from last season being carried into this one,it has been left behind because of our excellent start.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, M_B said:

Some was undoubtedly valid, but he was brought in to do a job and thankfully did it. I just never saw the need to carry Stokegate and the rest of it into this season.

There is no doubt that a poor start would have seen his record from last season being carried into this one,it has been left behind because of our excellent start.

"Stokegate" hasnt been brought into this season because he is seen in purely a positive light due to his results.

[M_B]

6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

"Stokegate" hasnt been brought into this season because he is seen in purely a positive light due to his results.

I know.

[Mattyblue]

He didn’t win a home game last season so that was worth discussing. If he hadn’t won, say, his first four home games this season either it would definitely have been worth discussing, as it would’ve raised questions as to how he sets his side up at home, when you need to be more on the front foot etc etc… however he won them instead, so end of discussion.

Don’t know why standard results based message board chat is so controversial with some.

Edited December 21, 2024 by Mattyblue

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

10 hours ago, M_B said:

As I said after the Leicester match, I'd give him a clean slate from the start of the new season. Never saw the point of carrying the hand wringing of last season into this one, considering the situation he inherited.

Me too. That season was over. My view was let’s see what he can do with a his own pre-season and maybe even a new player or two.

I think what got on my nerves previously is that he seemed to be judged in a way the JDT never was by some sections of this board.

[Mattyblue]

Swings and roundabouts, JDT was very popular on here, but not particularly at Ewood. 

Whereas Eustace has always had the fans right behind him since day dot at the ground.
 

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I think what got on my nerves previously is that he seemed to be judged in a way the JDT never was by some sections of this board.

In what way?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, Hasta said:

In what way?

In the way that form and results were terrible at the end of JDT’s time here but Eustace was expected to improve things as soon he set foot through the door.

[Hasta]

31 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

In the way that form and results were terrible at the end of JDT’s time here but Eustace was expected to improve things as soon he set foot through the door.

I think the previous 18 month and a 44% win ratio (despite the awful ending) had given JDT some grace.

However at that QPR game it was planly obvious JDT had lost the players and had no intention of changing tactics to try and alter anything. Subsequent players comments confirmed this.

I can only speak personally, but I felt that removing JDT and with us posessing the players that had gathered so many points the previous season and up until December, that Eustace should have been able to get some form of new manager boost. Therefore yes, I was expecting improvement in form within the first few weeks and I was worried when it didnt happen, especially when we started to really need points and yet showed no attacking urgency at home to Millwall.

I'm not sure my reactions were too unrational.

I didnt agree with people who wanted him gone last season, although were there that many saying that?

 

Edited December 21, 2024 by Hasta

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, Hasta said:

I think the previous 18 month and a 44% win ratio (despite the awful ending) had given JDT some grace.

However at that QPR game it was planly obvious JDT had lost the players and had no intention of changing tactics to try and alter anything. Subsequent players comments confirmed this.

I can only speak personally, but I felt that removing JDT and with us posessing the players that had gathered so many points the previous season and up until December, that Eustace should have been able to get some form of new manager boost. Therefore yes, I was expecting improvement in form within the first few weeks and I was worried when it didnt happen.

I'm not sure my reactions are unrational.

 

JDT had the benefit of the best midfield player in the league. Our form fell off a cliff once he was sold. He also managed to off load the midfield player who has been our best player this season for no apparent reason. Having Travis and Wharton running the midfield would have been a massive improvement on what Eustace had to work with.

[Hasta]

8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

JDT had the benefit of the best midfield player in the league. Our form fell off a cliff once he was sold. He also managed to off load the midfield player who has been our best player this season for no apparent reason. Having Travis and Wharton running the midfield would have been a massive improvement on what Eustace had to work with.

Our form had fell off a cliff long before Wharton was sold, although I agree on the point with Travis. I said it was ludicrous the moment he left.

But none of that changes my view on JE last season.

Ultimately his absolute minimum achievement for me was making sure we stopped up and we just about did that. I said he'd get a clean slate this year, I aired no criticism over the summer and this season he's proving to be an absolute masterclass.

Edited December 21, 2024 by Hasta

[DE.]

JDT had a strange time here. I think a lot of sympathy towards him came from Venky's consistently pulling the rug out from under him, and it was understandable for that to be used as mitigation. With that said, we generally seemed to get worse as JDT's ideas became further implemented. He had a fairly strong start but we weren't immediately playing his style of football. We had a weirdly disjointed way of playing which was far from pleasing on the eye, but somehow propelled us to the very top of the division. You have to give him credit for that, as odd as it was.

However, once our football started looking nicer, results stopped coming. We collapsed in the second half of his first season - there was a lot of insistence it would get better as the football looked nicer to watch, but it never did. In the summer Venky's continued to torpedo any chances of JDT succeeding with the style he wanted to play - so he offered to resign. Our idiot owners declined this, and decided keeping an unhappy manager in situ whose style clearly didn't suit the majority of the players he had to work with was the better option. Stupidity as usual.

With that said, we somehow started off the season in quite good form and it wasn't really until November that the wheels totally came off. It was obvious JDT was not going to change his style (one assumes he was quite happy to get the sack, considering he wanted out in the summer), which seemed like it was being done in spite but perhaps it was just that JDT didn't know how to adapt or genuinely believed he could turn things around with his methods. We'll never know, but it was obvious at that point that a change needed to be made. As always with Venky's, it took them far too long to realise this and if not for the deadline day disaster and JDT's brutal and cutting assessment afterwards, who knows if he actually would have been removed?

We were very lucky that Birmingham had sacked exactly the type of manager we needed, that he was still out of work, and that Waggott was seemingly a fan. A rare moment of good fortune for us.

Ultimately I liked JDT for his honesty, he did well within the chaotic sphere that is Venkyworld, and I appreciated how he wanted to play football. It was never going to work in the long-term, though, and the end was an inevitability. It's a shame as I think with some backing we could and should have at least got a playoff finish, for the first time since we were relegated from the PL, during JDT's first season. The second season was never going to be a success, though, and JDT should have been let go the moment he made it clear he (understandably) no longer wanted to be the manager of the club.

Edited December 21, 2024 by DE.

[Hasta]

4 minutes ago, DE. said:

JDT had a strange time here. I think a lot of sympathy towards him came from Venky's consistently pulling the rug out from under him, and it was understandable for that to be used as mitigation. With that said, we generally seemed to get worse as JDT's ideas became further implemented. He had a fairly strong start but we weren't immediately playing his style of football. We had a weirdly disjointed way of playing which was far from pleasing on the eye, but somehow propelled us to the very top of the division. You have to give him credit for that, as odd as it was.

However, once our football started looking nicer, results stopped coming. We collapsed in the second half of his first season - there was a lot of insistence it would get better as the football looked nicer to watch, but it never did. In the summer Venky's continued to torpedo any chances of JDT succeeding with the style he wanted to play - so he offered to resign. Our idiot owners declined this, and decided keeping an unhappy manager in situ whose style clearly didn't suit the majority of the players he had to work with was the better options. Stupidity as usual.

With that said, we somehow started off the season in quite good form and it wasn't really until November that the wheels totally came off. It was obvious JDT was not going to change his style (one assumes he was quite happy to get the sack, considering he wanted out in the summer), which seemed like it was being done in spite but perhaps it was just that JDT didn't know how to adapt or genuinely believed he could turn things around with his methods. We'll never know, but it was obvious at that point that a change needed to be made. As always with Venky's, it took them far too long to realise this and if not for the deadline day disaster and JDT's brutal and cutting assessment afterwards, who knows if he actually would have been removed?

We were very lucky that Birmingham had sacked exactly the type of manager we needed, that he was still out of work, and that Waggott was seemingly a fan. A rare moment of good fortune for us.

Ultimately I liked JDT for his honesty, he did well within the chaotic sphere that is Venkyworld, and I appreciated how he wanted to play football. It was never going to work in the long-term, though, and the end was an inevitability. It's a shame as I think with some backing we could and should have at least got a playoff finish, for the first time since we were relegated from the PL, during JDT's first season. The second season was never going to be a success, though, and JDT should have been let go the moment he made it clear he (understandably) no longer wanted to be the manager of the club.

That’s a fair appraisal although the wheels were still on in November. The start of the bad run was the first game in December. But we still beat Bristol City pre-Christmas (and we’re unlucky not to beat Watford due to Wahlstedt). It was the back to back heavy away losses over Christmas and then a failure to beat Rotherham at Ewood when I’d say they came off.

[DE.]

23 minutes ago, Hasta said:

That’s a fair appraisal although the wheels were still on in November. The start of the bad run was the first game in December. But we still beat Bristol City pre-Christmas (and we’re unlucky not to beat Watford due to Wahlstedt). It was the back to back heavy away losses over Christmas and then a failure to beat Rotherham at Ewood when I’d say they came off.

True, and my memory is clearly a bit hazy, as we actually didn't start the season off well. From 19th August - October 4th we actually lost 6 out of 8 games. We had a mini-revival between October 7th - 29th November before it totally fell apart. JDT's tenure here really was bizarre from a results perspective. 

[M_B]

5 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

He didn’t win a home game last season so that was worth discussing. If he hadn’t won, say, his first four home games this season either it would definitely have been worth discussing, as it would’ve raised questions as to how he sets his side up at home, when you need to be more on the front foot etc etc… however he won them instead, so end of discussion.

Don’t know why standard results based message board chat is so controversial with some.

The complaint, as I remember it, was that we hadn't won a game. The focus only switched to "home" games after we'd won a couple away.

[Mattyblue]

Didn’t win his first 9 games, didn’t win a home game until this season. I don’t see the issue in folk commenting on those results.

[martonrover]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Didn’t win his first 9 games, didn’t win a home game until this season. I don’t see the issue in folk commenting on those results.

Agreed, but we were grinding out points, which was already an improvement on what had gone before.

All history now anyway.

[waynerovers]

Entertainment is secondary, I'd take hard fought points every time over flashy football. We played some cracking stuff under JDT but whenever we conceded we never looked like getting back in the game.

[Mattyblue]

Picked up a few draws but wouldn’t have been close to being enough without two totally unexpected wins. But we got them, the end.

Don’t get the issue, he got stick when we couldn’t win a game, he gets unadulterated praise when we win every week - that’s football forums.

Edited December 21, 2024 by Mattyblue

[M_B]

18 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Didn’t win his first 9 games, didn’t win a home game until this season. I don’t see the issue in folk commenting on those results.

No issue with anyone commenting on anything, I just never saw the point in carrying it into this season.

Yourself and R99 obviously did, difference of opinions, that's all.

[Mattyblue]

I would’ve have done if results were poor, they weren’t.