v Leeds Utd (a) - 1/1/2025

[MarkBRFC]

14 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

When did a Rovers player last score a hat trick ? 

Szmodics vs Cambridge in the FA Cup 3rd round last season.

Last league hat trick I believe was Brereton Diaz in September 2021 against Cardiff.

[Commondore]

If nothing else, Gueye is so far continuously available for selection. Gallagher missed out on about a third of our games through injury both last season and the one before that.

Edited Thursday at 22:55 by Commondore

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Gallagher got 8 or 9 goals 3 seasons running. Below average but still well above how many Gueye is in line to get IF he continues as we have seen so far.

Its this "goal involvements" nonsense where headers 30 yards out from goal and 5 yard passes are being treated on par with actually scoring goals. 

Gueye has missed only 2 sitters that I can remember, he doesnt regularly get into good positions. Both times, he embarassed himself.

You were hyping up Gueye beyond belief (Buckley £10m levels) after 45 goalless minutes in a friendly at Stockport.

If Gallagher is the benchmark and people are having to chuck in "assists" including headers miles out and 5 yard passes to put Gueye past Gallagher, and he is our main striker signing from the summer, somethings gone wrong. He is the worst finisher and technical striker of a ball that I can remember.

I guess it depends what you want from your players. I think Gueye leads the line well - better than Ohashi, Leonard and Gallagher (you can add Ennis and Brereton-Diaz to that list too from recent players). He's technically limited, but he puts himself about and brings others into play. To put it bluntly, the ball sticks upfront when he's playing and it gives us an added dimension. 

If we're looking at the stats, technically Gueye has 3 goals and 6 assists so far for us this season. Personally I don't think that accurately reflects his impact on the game, but it's a tangible stat to work from (i.e. no other CF on our books wins that header against Leeds [and I don't think JRC got credited for an assist either, even though it came off him].).

If we're comparing him to, admittedly my least favourite Rovers player of recent times (Danny Murphy can no longer be considered recent), Gallagher's best season for us, when he was on loan, he had 12 goals and 3 assists. His next two best seasons he had 8 goals and 5 assists and 9 goals and 3 assists respectively. 

Right now Gueye has 9 goal contributions. During his best season here (when he was touted as the next big thing and ultimately Mowbray was suckered into spending £5m on him) Gallagher had 15 goal contributions. After that his next two best seasons hit 13 then 12. Barring injury I think Gueye will go on to eclipse Gallagher's best season here - probably quite comfortably.

Obviously this all depends on how much you value assists - evidently you don't think cushioning a header into the path of Weimann warranted much praise, and that's fair enough. 'Old school' I think they'd call your thinking. 

[Paul Mani]

18 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I guess it depends what you want from your players. I think Gueye leads the line well - better than Ohashi, Leonard and Gallagher (you can add Ennis and Brereton-Diaz to that list too from recent players). He's technically limited, but he puts himself about and brings others into play. To put it bluntly, the ball sticks upfront when he's playing and it gives us an added dimension. 

If we're looking at the stats, technically Gueye has 3 goals and 6 assists so far for us this season. Personally I don't think that accurately reflects his impact on the game, but it's a tangible stat to work from (i.e. no other CF on our books wins that header against Leeds [and I don't think JRC got credited for an assist either, even though it came off him].).

If we're comparing him to, admittedly my least favourite Rovers player of recent times (Danny Murphy can no longer be considered recent), Gallagher's best season for us, when he was on loan, he had 12 goals and 3 assists. His next two best seasons he had 8 goals and 5 assists and 9 goals and 3 assists respectively. 

Right now Gueye has 9 goal contributions. During his best season here (when he was touted as the next big thing and ultimately Mowbray was suckered into spending £5m on him) Gallagher had 15 goal contributions. After that his next two best seasons hit 13 then 12. Barring injury I think Gueye will go on to eclipse Gallagher's best season here - probably quite comfortably.

Obviously this all depends on how much you value assists - evidently you don't think cushioning a header into the path of Weimann warranted much praise, and that's fair enough. 'Old school' I think they'd call your thinking. 

Yes, and he will eclipse Gallaghers best contribution in less minutes, with less starts, in a team that creates less chances.

The stats tell a story, but in honesty anyone who understands football and watched Gally for 4 seasons would’ve picked Gueye out as being better in his first 20 mins. As ungainly as he looks and as easy as it is to criticise him for the chances he misses, he has an effect on every game and SG simply would not have been in the position to miss them. He certainly wouldn’t have been flinging himself around the back post to head that ball back into play! 

I’ll take a striker who misses two sitters a week and leads our goal contributions on an individual basis, because as long as he’s missing them, he’s got a chance of scoring one.

Final point - IF (and it’s a big IF), big Mak hits a purple patch and begins to get that bit of luck in front of goal, then he’ll score plenty because he always gets a chance. When you’ve seen Ben Brereton turn into Ben Brereton Diaz, we have to believe anything is possible, right?

[Herbie6590]

The BRFCS POTM for the game against Leeds is Danny Batth…👍⚪️🔵

[Valconite]

Was gutted when they got a penalty awarded for a dive (wasn't the first time they tried it during the game) but absolutely fantastic that we pulled one back instantly.

Delighted at the result but also disappointed. We can take points from teams at the top end of the table yet constantly gift points to those at the bottom end. Can't mount a promotion push like that. Then again we have Venkys and Waggot who are anti promotion.

On another note, quite funny how salty Leeds fans are. Still flooding any official or rovers tagged social media posts 24 hours later. They really do think they are some kind of football juggernaut and everyone should just roll over them. 

[aletheia]

10 hours ago, davulsukur said:

They would come to Ewood and have the hell kicked out of them and then be crying all the way home how we didn't play football "in the right way", as in just let them win basically.

Seem to remember some crying/shouting about Millwall recently.

[aletheia]

8 hours ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

He's a whingeing little bitch for me is Farke

Wasn't Farke at the top of people's list here for manager before JDT came?

[Bbrovers2288]

3 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I think this is a Scots term. It basically means ‘scuffed effort’

Sorry, Scot’s dialect here, yes it’s a mishit shot, used a lot in golf 

[davulsukur]

 

Rovers admin going all in on Leeds. 

Didn't realise Gnonto shoved Batth over after the penalty. 

Makes Danny's goal *chefs kiss* even sweeter.

Brittain laughing at him right at the end of the video 😂

[M_B]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Yes, and he will eclipse Gallaghers best contribution in less minutes, with less starts, in a team that creates less chances.

The stats tell a story, but in honesty anyone who understands football and watched Gally for 4 seasons would’ve picked Gueye out as being better in his first 20 mins. As ungainly as he looks and as easy as it is to criticise him for the chances he misses, he has an effect on every game and SG simply would not have been in the position to miss them. He certainly wouldn’t have been flinging himself around the back post to head that ball back into play! 

I’ll take a striker who misses two sitters a week and leads our goal contributions on an individual basis, because as long as he’s missing them, he’s got a chance of scoring one.

Final point - IF (and it’s a big IF), big Mak hits a purple patch and begins to get that bit of luck in front of goal, then he’ll score plenty because he always gets a chance. When you’ve seen Ben Brereton turn into Ben Brereton Diaz, we have to believe anything is possible, right?

I don't see why we can't just give a player plaudits without slaughtering another one, it's the same with Beck and Pickering.

If you're determined to compare,you can't do it without considering that Gallagher has partnered 3 of the best goalscorers we've had in recent years. Maybe ask Szmodics, Brereton and Armstrong who they'd rather play with.

[RevidgeBlue]

4 minutes ago, M_B said:

 Maybe ask Szmodics, Brereton and Armstrong who they'd rather play with.

Like you I've absolutely no idea, but I'd imagine they'd say someone who could find the net on a reasonably regular basis like themselves.

[M_B]

10 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Like you I've absolutely no idea, but I'd imagine they'd say someone who could find the net on a reasonably regular basis like themselves.

Aye well, we both know that isn't really how it works. Let me know how many partnerships get 25 or 30 apiece.

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I guess it depends what you want from your players. I think Gueye leads the line well - better than Ohashi, Leonard and Gallagher (you can add Ennis and Brereton-Diaz to that list too from recent players). He's technically limited, but he puts himself about and brings others into play. To put it bluntly, the ball sticks upfront when he's playing and it gives us an added dimension. 

If we're looking at the stats, technically Gueye has 3 goals and 6 assists so far for us this season. Personally I don't think that accurately reflects his impact on the game, but it's a tangible stat to work from (i.e. no other CF on our books wins that header against Leeds [and I don't think JRC got credited for an assist either, even though it came off him].).

If we're comparing him to, admittedly my least favourite Rovers player of recent times (Danny Murphy can no longer be considered recent), Gallagher's best season for us, when he was on loan, he had 12 goals and 3 assists. His next two best seasons he had 8 goals and 5 assists and 9 goals and 3 assists respectively. 

Right now Gueye has 9 goal contributions. During his best season here (when he was touted as the next big thing and ultimately Mowbray was suckered into spending £5m on him) Gallagher had 15 goal contributions. After that his next two best seasons hit 13 then 12. Barring injury I think Gueye will go on to eclipse Gallagher's best season here - probably quite comfortably.

Obviously this all depends on how much you value assists - evidently you don't think cushioning a header into the path of Weimann warranted much praise, and that's fair enough. 'Old school' I think they'd call your thinking. 

His header for the Weimann goal was obviously a good contribution.

But people are only measuring his output in goal contributions because goals alone (1 in the league, not including a goal against a Stockport youth team where Vale also scored, or a penalty against Blackpool) paint him in a terrible light.

Assist is such a flawed stat to judge a striker on. For Gueye they range from a totally fluffed tap in, to a good header but one that only became an assist because someone smashed in a worldie from 30 yards, to a 5 yard pass.

A striker who was signed to be the main striker can simply not be deemed a success when he has a solitary league goal at this point of the season. Thats the top and bottom of it.

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Yes, and he will eclipse Gallaghers best contribution in less minutes, with less starts, in a team that creates less chances.

The stats tell a story, but in honesty anyone who understands football and watched Gally for 4 seasons would’ve picked Gueye out as being better in his first 20 mins. As ungainly as he looks and as easy as it is to criticise him for the chances he misses, he has an effect on every game and SG simply would not have been in the position to miss them. He certainly wouldn’t have been flinging himself around the back post to head that ball back into play! 

I’ll take a striker who misses two sitters a week and leads our goal contributions on an individual basis, because as long as he’s missing them, he’s got a chance of scoring one.

Final point - IF (and it’s a big IF), big Mak hits a purple patch and begins to get that bit of luck in front of goal, then he’ll score plenty because he always gets a chance. When you’ve seen Ben Brereton turn into Ben Brereton Diaz, we have to believe anything is possible, right?

You often resort to "people who understand football" because you seemingly have a particularly high opinion of your own knowledge of the game. You are saying that about knowing after 20 minutes because you yourself said after 45 in a friendly that it was clear.

Gueye doesnt miss 2 sitters a game through excellent anticipation, he has missed 2 sitters in his time here. And ones that he had no excuse not to put away. He is a terrible finisher and striker of the ball. His shot against Hull and also one earlier in the season that ended up back in Belgium show that. Hes not a goalscorer who seems on the cusp of going on a goalscoring run. If he does then the whole narrative obviously changes, because he would be scoring goals. Until if and when that happens, its not good enough.

If he got close to a usual Gallagher 8 or 9 goal a season, then we would see that as a success. Which says a lot as Gallagher was below average. As it is, the only way to defend him is considering assists which include missed tap ins and headers 30 yard out as on par with goals.

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont doubt the players try their best but all of the real stand out players this season are the ones behind whoever is selected in the front 4.

Try their best, The players deserved as much as Eustace for our league position which you aren't given them. 

I think Ohashi has been a standout this season. Others than that maybe but every players deserved the credit for our results and league position. 

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

As I said, we have scored more than once only 3 times in 17 games. That shows how little an attacking threat we have. It also adds context whereby if we cant keep a clean sheet, which Eustace is good at getting but as I said its impossible to get one every game and because he is having to make do with such a poor set of attackers, when we concede any goals its really hard to win as we have seen in the last 4.

Cherry pick stats to suit your arguments here. 

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Thats why Eustace is doing such a good job to repeatedly need to try and grind out results without an attack. Yesterday in open play we just didnt offer a threat and the game was essentially played in one half so to keep them to such few chances was even more impressive.

Eustace played those tactics yesterday cos that how to stop Leeds playing their way by having no space in behind, in space, play deeper and etc. We done this twice this season and we have 4 points from it. Leeds created nothing to be honest given their supposedly quality in the final third. I don't think Eustace would play another way even if we are proven striker and pacey left winger in the squad. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

A striker who was signed to be the main striker

who says he will the main striker and not Ohashi who have good season

[Bbrovers2288]

1 hour ago, M_B said:

Aye well, we both know that isn't really how it works. Let me know how many partnerships get 25 or 30 apiece.

Rhodes and gestede 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, M_B said:

I don't see why we can't just give a player plaudits without slaughtering another one, it's the same with Beck and Pickering.

If you're determined to compare,you can't do it without considering that Gallagher has partnered 3 of the best goalscorers we've had in recent years. Maybe ask Szmodics, Brereton and Armstrong who they'd rather play with.

I’ll bet they wouldn’t say Gallagher. The lad was going backwards every season he played.  He was no more than ok on loan here back in the day but paying £5 million for him was beyond a joke. We had our pants pulled down there. Having said that not as badly has Stoke have had their pants pulled down.

[Upside Down]

7 hours ago, arbitro said:

Me too. I'm guessing we are both from a similar generation and grew up watching games with lots of excitement. Far too games (particularly Premier League) I watch are too sterile and sanitised. 

Maybe we are dinosaurs 😂😂

Hey, dinosaurs were the dominant form of life on this planet for millions of years and some are still around today.

They've outlasted the football hipsters anyway.

[roversfan99]

49 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Try their best, The players deserved as much as Eustace for our league position which you aren't given them. 

I think Ohashi has been a standout this season. Others than that maybe but every players deserved the credit for our results and league position. 

Cherry pick stats to suit your arguments here. 

Eustace played those tactics yesterday cos that how to stop Leeds playing their way by having no space in behind, in space, play deeper and etc. We done this twice this season and we have 4 points from it. Leeds created nothing to be honest given their supposedly quality in the final third. I don't think Eustace would play another way even if we are proven striker and pacey left winger in the squad. 

I have never said that they dont deserve credit for our position. Obviously they do. The stand outs are all players behind the front 4 of the team. Tronstad, Travis, Beck, Hyam, Batth, Brittain have all stood out.

If Ohashi is stand out in our attack considering hes a striker with 1 goal since mid September, it tells you a lot.

The fact that we have such difficulty in scoring more than 1 goal highlights the impotency of our attack. Youve dismissed that stat because it shows in black and white what I am trying to say. Eustace is doing brilliantly to leave us so well organised but when we dont keep a clean sheet, and you cant in every game, as we have seen lately as we cant often score more than 1 goal, its hard to get positive results, certainly wins.

If he had some attacking quality then that could change. But he doesnt.

Edited Thursday at 21:37 by roversfan99

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I have never said that they dont deserve credit for our position. Obviously they do. The stand outs are all players behind the front 4 of the team. Tronstad, Travis, Beck, Hyam, Batth, Brittain have all stood out.

They stood for 3 reasons. 

1. We defend properly

2. No suicide high line

3. Confidence of keeping clean sheets

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

If Ohashi is stand out in our attack considering hes a striker with 1 goal since mid September, it tells you a lot.

5 goals coming into a completely and different style of football, new country and given he has played a full 12 months of football tell you the story. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

The fact that we have such difficulty in scoring more than 1 goal highlights the impotency of our attack. Youve dismissed that stat because it shows in black and white what I am trying to say. Eustace is doing brilliantly to leave us so well organised but when we dont keep a clean sheet, and you cant in every game, as we have seen lately as we cant often score more than 1 goal, its hard to get positive results, certainly wins.

You have dismissed our 4 goals against Derby, 2 goals at Norwich away, 2 goals against Oxford, 3 goals against Bristol City. I wonder why? Fits your point  

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

If he had some attacking quality then that could change. But he doesnt.

Wait would you give Leeds what they want for example, a higher defensive line and space in behind. Why would you change that tactical when its earned 4 points from 2 games this season? 

[Exiled_Rover]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

His header for the Weimann goal was obviously a good contribution.

But people are only measuring his output in goal contributions because goals alone (1 in the league, not including a goal against a Stockport youth team where Vale also scored, or a penalty against Blackpool) paint him in a terrible light.

Assist is such a flawed stat to judge a striker on. For Gueye they range from a totally fluffed tap in, to a good header but one that only became an assist because someone smashed in a worldie from 30 yards, to a 5 yard pass.

A striker who was signed to be the main striker can simply not be deemed a success when he has a solitary league goal at this point of the season. Thats the top and bottom of it.

Why are assists a flawed stat to judge a striker on? 

As for the rest, bearing in mind you'd start Weimann upfront against Burnley it's clear we want very different things from our CFs and are never going to see eye-to-eye on the matter!

[roversfan99]

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

They stood for 3 reasons. 

1. We defend properly

2. No suicide high line

3. Confidence of keeping clean sheets

5 goals coming into a completely and different style of football, new country and given he has played a full 12 months of football tell you the story. 

You have dismissed our 4 goals against Derby, 2 goals at Norwich away, 2 goals against Oxford, 3 goals against Bristol City. I wonder why? Fits your point  

Wait would you give Leeds what they want for example, a higher defensive line and space in behind. Why would you change that tactical when its earned 4 points from 2 games this season? 

Im not saying we had the wrong approach specifically against Leeds, we clearly didnt. I am saying that Eustace is massively restricted because our underfunded squad lacks attacking quality and if our owners gave a shit and backed him, it could potentially give us a different dimension. 

As I have said and backed up with the stat of only 3 times in 17 in which we have scored more than 1 goal, we need better attackers. Its not a hard thing to grasp. Eustace has done excellently to have us so well organised, and its led to us being as high as we are. We can see that if we dont keep a clean sheet, something Eustace is very good at getting but something that is impossible to get in every match. Then we will always struggle to score more than 1 which we would need to win.

I feel like you are arguing for the sake of arguing. You clearly feel like we need better attackers hence why you keep saying we need a striker and a winger. 

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Why are assists a flawed stat to judge a striker on? 

As for the rest, bearing in mind you'd start Weimann upfront against Burnley it's clear we want very different things from our CFs and are never going to see eye-to-eye on the matter!

I obviously dont see Weimann as who I want up front. We dont have a striker available who comes close to what I would perceive to be a Championship standard striker.

A strikers primary job is to score goals and Gueye has 1. It feels like this "goal contributions" metric that people are using is to try and convince ourselves that Gueye is anything other than a poor striker. As I said, a header 30 yards out, a missed tap in, a couple of 5 yard passes, those contributions arent on par with goals.

In terms of the assist stat, one of his main contributions as a Rovers player was the header back across the face of goal yesterday. That ISNT an assist apparently. Whereas him embarassing himself missing a tap in but it hitting his heel is. That shows that the assist stat needs to be taken with a pinch of salt and doesnt accurately measure a strikers contribution.

[chaddyrovers]

39 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Im not saying we had the wrong approach specifically against Leeds, we clearly didnt. I am saying that Eustace is massively restricted because our underfunded squad lacks attacking quality and if our owners gave a shit and backed him, it could potentially give us a different dimension. 

No we didn't cos that's how you played against Leeds. He has played the same way against Leeds 3 times and we have 7 points. 

39 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

As I have said and backed up with the stat of only 3 times in 17 in which we have scored more than 1 goal, we need better attackers. Its not a hard thing to grasp.

Cherry picking stats to suit your point of view. 

39 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Eustace has done excellently to have us so well organised, and its led to us being as high as we are. We can see that if we dont keep a clean sheet, something Eustace is very good at getting but something that is impossible to get in every match. Then we will always struggle to score more than 1 which we would need to win.

Eustace has done what a good head coach would do. Wouldnt you Wilder has his team well organised? Or WBA under Corberan? Or Sunderland under Le Bris? 

39 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I feel like you are arguing for the sake of arguing. You clearly feel like we need better attackers hence why you keep saying we need a striker and a winger. 

Yes we need a winger cos I would like a different option to Hedges. On Striker, Ohashi has played a full 12 months of football and at some point will need a rest. Plus factoring in Gueye hasn't scoring as much as we like.