v Leeds Utd (a) - 1/1/2025

[Dreams of 1995]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

 

A strikers primary job is to score goals and Gueye has 1. It feels like this "goal contributions" metric that people are using is to try and convince ourselves that Gueye is anything other than a poor striker. As I said, a header 30 yards out, a missed tap in, a couple of 5 yard passes, those contributions arent on par with goals.

Tbh, goal contributions are just facts. The only person trying to convince people of something is you

Across multiple threads over a period of weeks now you have been arguing against anyone and everyone regarding Gueye. We get it. You think he is poor

The fact is, he has been involved in pieces of play that has changed games. They are called goal contributions. That you don’t recognise them as a ‘metric’ to judge an attacking player on is your own problem. All of those instances you discuss resulted in Rovers goals. Gueye was involved in them all. It is that easy 

Edited Friday at 01:40 by Dreams of 1995

[Paul Mani]

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Tbh, goal contributions are just facts. The only person trying to convince people of something is you

Across multiple threads over a period of weeks now you have been arguing against anyone and everyone regarding Gueye. We get it. You think he is poor

The fact is, he has been involved in pieces of play that has changed games. They are called goal contributions. That you don’t recognise them as a ‘metric’ to judge an attacking player on is your own problem. All of those instances you discuss resulted in Rovers goals. Gueye was involved in them all. It is that easy 

100%

No one is saying Gueye is a top player. We’re saying that when he plays, stuff happens and he is central to it somehow. In FACT, when you look at the most common attacking metrics (goals and assists) aka goal contributions, he’s the highest scoring forward at the club.

[Paul Mani]

8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

His header for the Weimann goal was obviously a good contribution.

But people are only measuring his output in goal contributions because goals alone (1 in the league, not including a goal against a Stockport youth team where Vale also scored, or a penalty against Blackpool) paint him in a terrible light.

Assist is such a flawed stat to judge a striker on. For Gueye they range from a totally fluffed tap in, to a good header but one that only became an assist because someone smashed in a worldie from 30 yards, to a 5 yard pass.

A striker who was signed to be the main striker can simply not be deemed a success when he has a solitary league goal at this point of the season. Thats the top and bottom of it.

You often resort to "people who understand football" because you seemingly have a particularly high opinion of your own knowledge of the game. You are saying that about knowing after 20 minutes because you yourself said after 45 in a friendly that it was clear.

Gueye doesnt miss 2 sitters a game through excellent anticipation, he has missed 2 sitters in his time here. And ones that he had no excuse not to put away. He is a terrible finisher and striker of the ball. His shot against Hull and also one earlier in the season that ended up back in Belgium show that. Hes not a goalscorer who seems on the cusp of going on a goalscoring run. If he does then the whole narrative obviously changes, because he would be scoring goals. Until if and when that happens, its not good enough.

If he got close to a usual Gallagher 8 or 9 goal a season, then we would see that as a success. Which says a lot as Gallagher was below average. As it is, the only way to defend him is considering assists which include missed tap ins and headers 30 yard out as on par with goals.

It’s not rocket science. He has the most goal contributions of all our strikers / forwards in less minutes, with less starts. Fact.

You quite often try to debunk the notion of ‘football understanding’ because it doesn’t follow a 1+1+1 = X, narrative. You can’t research it, or make sense of it. It comes from years playing at differing standards, watching and it’s a feeling. In truth, I quickly googled our forwards to see if it were true and to prove the feeling that those hours of playing, watching, experience screams at me.

This is not Messi vs Ronaldo. Neither SG or MG are world beaters. If either were prolific goal-scorers, with their considerable physical attributes, then they’d basically be Drogba, or at least a Kiefer Moore!

But yes, 20 minutes into a 45 minute cameo at Edgeley Park in the summer, me and probably a good few others realised (after MG had missed at least two of the four sitters) that day, that he was better than SG based on the danger that he created, his ability to hold the ball up and his desire to be in a position to score (or miss) another chance. For me, that last chance saloon, lung busting run in the 90th minute vs Leeds was the epitome of the difference between him and SG who has forged a career out of working hard for the team and has the goal threat and mentality of Center half.

For context - It’s that feeling when, you watch an attack build up, you know from  experience where the striker needs to be, and you can see Gueye putting himself exactly there vs years of wondering wtf big Sammy wasn’t anywhere near that spot when the cross came in. 

Edited Friday at 05:04 by Paul Mani

[Mattyblue]

…he’s still not having that air shot as an assist though.

[Dan]

 

 

Edited Friday at 08:34 by Dan

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

It’s not rocket science. He has the most goal contributions of all our strikers / forwards in less minutes, with less starts. Fact.

You quite often try to debunk the notion of ‘football understanding’ because it doesn’t follow a 1+1+1 = X, narrative. You can’t research it, or make sense of it. It comes from years playing at differing standards, watching and it’s a feeling. In truth, I quickly googled our forwards to see if it were true and to prove the feeling that those hours of playing, watching, experience screams at me.

This is not Messi vs Ronaldo. Neither SG or MG are world beaters. If either were prolific goal-scorers, with their considerable physical attributes, then they’d basically be Drogba, or at least a Kiefer Moore!

But yes, 20 minutes into a 45 minute cameo at Edgeley Park in the summer, me and probably a good few others realised (after MG had missed at least two of the four sitters) that day, that he was better than SG based on the danger that he created, his ability to hold the ball up and his desire to be in a position to score (or miss) another chance. For me, that last chance saloon, lung busting run in the 90th minute vs Leeds was the epitome of the difference between him and SG who has forged a career out of working hard for the team and has the goal threat and mentality of Center half.

For context - It’s that feeling when, you watch an attack build up, you know from  experience where the striker needs to be, and you can see Gueye putting himself exactly there vs years of wondering wtf big Sammy wasn’t anywhere near that spot when the cross came in. 

You seem to think that you have really high football understanding and that anyone who doesnt share an opinion is just not very well clued up though.

Gueye isnt regularly getting into goalscoring chances though, he has missed those 2 sitters but its not a constant churn of misses. You speak as if he is a natural in terms of anticipating where the ball is going to go. He isnt. And either way he is an appalling finisher as we have seen. Gallagher is a poor technical player but Gueye makes him look like Harry Kane in front of goal somehow.

"Goal contributions" are only being used because people know his goal tally is so bad. Ohashi has scored 5 goals, he has done far better as a result. To show up the reliance on assists and how they dont rank equally with a goal, Ohashi made a great run and squared a perfect ball for Gueye v Luton. The latter miskicked it, Beck followed it up. Ohashi has made a far bigger contribution to that goal, yet if you base it on goal contributions, Gueye did. Ohashi scoring one of his goals doesnt equal Gueye winning a header 30 yards out or playing a 5 yard pass.

If he carries on the same rate and ends the season on 2 goals and 12 assists of a similar nature, is that a good season for a striker in your eyes?

[roversfan99]

7 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Tbh, goal contributions are just facts. The only person trying to convince people of something is you

Across multiple threads over a period of weeks now you have been arguing against anyone and everyone regarding Gueye. We get it. You think he is poor

The fact is, he has been involved in pieces of play that has changed games. They are called goal contributions. That you don’t recognise them as a ‘metric’ to judge an attacking player on is your own problem. All of those instances you discuss resulted in Rovers goals. Gueye was involved in them all. It is that easy 

Same question to you. If Gueye finishes the season on 2 goals and 12 assists of a similar nature. Is that a good season for a striker?

[Tom]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

…he’s still not having that air shot as an assist though.

Well he won’t get an assist for his role in Batths goal so they cancel each other out there 😛 

By the way does anyone know what Roversfan99’s view on Mahktar Gueye is; I’ve been keen to hear it 

Edited Friday at 09:56 by Tom

[Mattyblue]

Which shows the daftness of ‘goal involvements’ as a metric as he was pivotal to the Leeds goal but gets nowt.

[M_B]

39 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Same question to you. If Gueye finishes the season on 2 goals and 12 assists of a similar nature. Is that a good season for a striker?

He must be on 10 ish now??

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, M_B said:

He must be on 10 ish now??

6.

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

6.

Isn't Gueye on 3 goals or do we not league cup goals in goals figure? 

[Upside Down]

8 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Tbh, goal contributions are just facts. The only person trying to convince people of something is you

Across multiple threads over a period of weeks now you have been arguing against anyone and everyone regarding Gueye. We get it. You think he is poor

The fact is, he has been involved in pieces of play that has changed games. They are called goal contributions. That you don’t recognise them as a ‘metric’ to judge an attacking player on is your own problem. All of those instances you discuss resulted in Rovers goals. Gueye was involved in them all. It is that easy 

He does seem to win a lot of knockdown headers and such.

Only small things but they are crucial to some of the goals we've scored this season. The number one example being the goal at t'turd.

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Isn't Gueye on 3 goals or do we not league cup goals in goals figure? 

We was talking about league goals. Not a goal against a Stockport youth side when prolific Jack Vale also scored.

You clearly dont rate him either hence recently basically saying he isnt good enough.

[chaddyrovers]

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We was talking about league goals. Not a goal against a Stockport youth side when prolific Jack Vale also scored.

You very quick to find any excuse not to give him a goal or good performance 

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You clearly dont rate him either hence recently basically saying he isnt good enough.

He isnt goalscorer striker I wish we had but since his goal at Sheffield Wednesday, his performances are better and he is causing problems and affect goals. So maybe we shouldn't be so quickly to write him off

[M_B]

37 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

6.

So does that include Dolan's against Derby? Not being facetious but I don't know what we're counting and what we're not.

[Dreams of 1995]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Same question to you. If Gueye finishes the season on 2 goals and 12 assists of a similar nature. Is that a good season for a striker?

My judgement on Gueye’s season will come when our final league position is known

If he is part of the squad that gets us into the play offs then he will have had a good season. He’s contributed to us winning some important points so far. That’s all I know 

[Norbert Rassragr]

The RB Yarkshire fans seem very salty and entitled about the result from what I've seen. Loads of messages calling us anti football, small club, boring etc. 

[oldjamfan1]

4 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

My judgement on Gueye’s season will come when our final league position is known

If he is part of the squad that gets us into the play offs then he will have had a good season. He’s contributed to us winning some important points so far. That’s all I know 

I was just about to post exactly this Dreams.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

The RB Yarkshire fans seem very salty and entitled about the result from what I've seen. Loads of messages calling us anti football, small club, boring etc. 

They’ll have to play exactly like we did in most of their away games if they get into the Prem. If they don’t they’ll be straight back down again.

[booth]

5 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

They’ll have to play exactly like we did in most of their away games if they get into the Prem. If they don’t they’ll be straight back down again.

They'll come straight back down regardless.