Valérien Ismaël: Blackburn Rovers Head Coach

[sharpysharps86]

6 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I think Ismael is a total dud and a mutual agreement for his immediate exit should be reached and then QUICKLY appoint a manager who might just give those players who seem inevitably heading for the exit door as their contracts run down some reason to stay.

Knowing our luck these days, Rovers will be the one club he stays at for more than 50 games.

I've taken an immediate disliking to this guy. Comes across as horribly in the press. Arrogance without the results to back it up.

[Herbie6590]

1 hour ago, M_B said:

I don't normally take any notice of all that expected goals malarkey, but for a team which doesn't score many, I'd expect the loss of our top scorer to have an effect.

xG measures the quality of chances being created by the team. We don’t score many because we don’t create many good quality chances & when we do we don’t convert them…so apart from that we’re looking good…!

[islander200]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

To lose a single game in isolation against a struggling side would be bad but it can happen. 3 in a week is the issue. We had also won 3 in 5 prior to his arrival.

It really is scraping the barrel to defend him because weve lost games or had runs of losses in the past.

I get that he is only 4 games in so I understand that side of not writing him off. But even beyond results, I have seen not one positive in terms of performances, nothing to cling onto. Your argument seems to be just that we have lost games in the past. Have you seen anything at all in his first 4 games that has impressed you in any way?

No iv seen nothing. Iv not even said he will turn things round or is the right man for the job

My point is 4 games in is too early to be completely writing him off, and using language like donkey,his fault we won't make the playoff. Yes man etc etc is ridiculous at this point, the same people where saying the same things about Eustace when he had no win in ten 

Again the team has struggled picking up expected wins against teams below us every season, just our record away v newly promoted clubs in the last few seasons can be used as proof of that. 

Even under Eustace this season Hull and Stoke both towards the bottom lost them both at home.

[TimmyJimmy]

I'm not looking to defend Ismael in any way but ---

Every year we have a cheap, crap low cost January window, clearly the ownership's doing.

Every year the January window delivers to us substandard squad filling bodies, clearly the board's doing.

Every year we enjoy the January death spiral from play off aspirants to survival desperados.

Who the manager is (Mowbray, JDT or Eustace) has had no impact on that, clearly hang that on the one remaining constant, the players.

All this "the players need help" stuff just translates to they aren't good enough or they aren't fit enough or both.

Who knows if the heavy winter rain sodden turf of Lancashire stresses leg muscle and hamstrings but you have to suspect that the amount of injuries we constantly suffer must be laid at the door of the back room staff.

I remember the year we got relegated to league 1 we had a full team of starters on the physio's benches so nothing new there either.

So whatever happens in the new year seems to have little to do with who the manager is or what he's up to. For me the players are just not up to it, end of, the owners and board to put it kindly are not up to it  the backroom staff seem to have confused creating a friendly  homely family style environment for one that produces results.

The Fergusons and Cloughs of this world cared little about family atmospheres or friendliness, they just demanded win after win after win and if you weren't up for it they explained it to you with teacups and hairdryers.

So for me Ismael is just the next victim sacrifice to the cult of failure that's been developed at Venky FC. He can't be expected to succeed no matter how good he is as long as he's surrounded by so much crap wherever you look.

I dislike his appointment but I'll cut him some slack this season, our death spiral was inevitable and as we all know nothing will change until the ownership changes (excepting that we will likely be enjoying new pastures in leagues 1 and 2 before too long. Joy).

[M_B]

23 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

xG measures the quality of chances being created by the team. We don’t score many because we don’t create many good quality chances & when we do we don’t convert them…so apart from that we’re looking good…!

I get that, but surely having someone on the pitch who knows where the net is, would increase the chance of getting into a goalscoring position, hence affecting the xg.

[chaddyrovers]

49 minutes ago, sharpysharps86 said:

Not as simple as that though is it? Edwards has one promotion to the premier league on his CV. By that logic Owen Coyle wouldn't be a downgrade on Eustace either 😂.

For what it's worth I think its clear now that Edwards would've been a better pick than Ismael at this moment in time, regardless of whether we think Edwards is better than Eustace or not.

 

 

Edwards has 2 promotions on his CV so how would he actually been a downgrade as @roversfan99has said on Eustace.

I actually he was upgrade but I doubts cos this season, his team has nosedive and his Luton team were the worst team I've seen at Ewood. Do I think he wanted to come? Not for me and I've read he is still paid his Luton salary

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

To lose a single game in isolation against a struggling side would be bad but it can happen. 3 in a week is the issue. We had also won 3 in 5 prior to his arrival.

It really is scraping the barrel to defend him because weve lost games or had runs of losses in the past.

I get that he is only 4 games in so I understand that side of not writing him off. But even beyond results, I have seen not one positive in terms of performances, nothing to cling onto. Your argument seems to be just that we have lost games in the past. Have you seen anything at all in his first 4 games that has impressed you in any way?

We lost to Hull at home whenr Plymouth with Rooney in charge away or Coventry away being our first lost of the season or Stoke at home?.

All near bottom of the league when we played them, so why that? Player mentality or performance or Eustace team selection or tactics? 

[47er]

22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We lost to Hull at home whenr Plymouth with Rooney in charge away or Coventry away being our first lost of the season or Stoke at home?.

All near bottom of the league when we played them, so why that? Player mentality or performance or Eustace team selection or tactics? 

You can dress this up as much as you like but only an idiot could fail to see how much of the brown stuff we are in.

[Mercer]

26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We lost to Hull at home whenr Plymouth with Rooney in charge away or Coventry away being our first lost of the season or Stoke at home?.

All near bottom of the league when we played them, so why that? Player mentality or performance or Eustace team selection or tactics? 

Are you on the Rovers' payroll?

Your criticism seems solely reserved for those managers / players who leave the club - you praise them to the hilt when here then diss them when they leave!

Pour yourself a very strong coffee laced with an even stronger dose of reality in order to bring some independence and objectivity to your thoughts.

Edited March 18 by Mercer

[Lancaster Rover]

I see he's given Cantwell a very public rocket up the arse via the LET this morning, I'd be interested to see which has the longer Rovers career at this stage.

[LeftWinger]

5 minutes ago, Lancaster Rover said:

I see he's given Cantwell a very public rocket up the arse via the LET this morning, I'd be interested to see which has the longer Rovers career at this stage.

I'm not sure Cantwell is the kind to respond well to that sort of thing, but time will tell

[sharpysharps86]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Edwards has 2 promotions on his CV so how would he actually been a downgrade as @roversfan99has said on Eustace.

I actually he was upgrade but I doubts cos this season, his team has nosedive and his Luton team were the worst team I've seen at Ewood. Do I think he wanted to come? Not for me and I've read he is still paid his Luton salary

We're talking promotions to the premier league though aren't we? Edwards has one of those, an fair play to him for doing so. The other was a promotion out of League Two, which doesn't really scratch the surface and is somewhat irrelevant given its two tiers below Rovers. Mark Hughes, one of our best modern managers failed to get a promotion out of League Two with Bradford, so its a mute point IMO. That aside, you go with the here and now, and Edwards struggled massively this season with Luton, whereas Eustace had us punching well above our weight.

It's a pointless discussion anyway, he didn't come here and we're stuck with someone who so far appears to be clearly inferior of either Edwards or Eustace. Lucky us!

[booth]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

To lose a single game in isolation against a struggling side would be bad but it can happen. 3 in a week is the issue. We had also won 3 in 5 prior to his arrival.

It really is scraping the barrel to defend him because weve lost games or had runs of losses in the past.

I get that he is only 4 games in so I understand that side of not writing him off. But even beyond results, I have seen not one positive in terms of performances, nothing to cling onto. Your argument seems to be just that we have lost games in the past. Have you seen anything at all in his first 4 games that has impressed you in any way?

I don't know if it's defending him, and as someone else has said he is an uninspiring appointment. It's just far too easy to blame him when there are other factors at play.

We're without key defenders and our top scorer.

We have several players coming back from injury who won't be fully match fit.

We're without the manager that led them to sixth in shambolic circumstances.

We didn't strengthen in January. If anything we're weaker.

A lot of Rovers fans expected this to happen with Eustace.

Sure we won three in five but the Swansea game where we lost 3-0 before he took over was fucking diabolical. The matches under Ismael have been a continuation of the players being piss poor.

I'm not sure which manager could deal with that turmoil. There are other people at the club who are responsible for us dropping out of the play offs and it's important to direct our anger at the right people.

[LeftWinger]

Ismael's banner on Linkedin suggests "I never lose. I either win or I learn.

Won 0

Drawn 1

Learned 3

Technically undefeated 

 

[StHelensRover]

2 hours ago, islander200 said:

No iv seen nothing. Iv not even said he will turn things round or is the right man for the job

My point is 4 games in is too early to be completely writing him off, and using language like donkey,his fault we won't make the playoff. Yes man etc etc is ridiculous at this point, the same people where saying the same things about Eustace when he had no win in ten 

Again the team has struggled picking up expected wins against teams below us every season, just our record away v newly promoted clubs in the last few seasons can be used as proof of that. 

Even under Eustace this season Hull and Stoke both towards the bottom lost them both at home.

I agree we can't be hysterical about his appointment, one man in front of me in BBE on Sat started screaming "Ismael out" when second Cardiff goal went in... 

But I was very underwhelmed by the fact that not once in the last few weeks has he ever mentioned the words "playoff" or "promotion", given that he inherited a team that was in 5th with a mouthwatering run of fixtures giving the opportunity cement that. Then after defeats at Derby and Stoke, two of this season's actual donkey teams, he started talking about the summer and preparing for next season. A complete lack of interest and ambition. Alarming for me.

Edited March 18 by StHelensRover

[Hasta]

14 hours ago, islander200 said:

Look at that graph in the 7 games prior to the 6 game winning run 5 defeats 1 win 2 draw, we then don't win in 5 3 defeats and 2 draws ,then win a game then 3 defeats in a row, the squad on multiple occasions thus season have gone runs of games losing .It is not something new created by Ismael.It can't be said for certain we would have won any of those last 3 games under another manager or the previous one 

 

If the comment is "we have been inconsistent and got good and bad results in patches all season, not just under Ismael" then I agree. Nobody is saying we would have won those games under another manager. I've said that Ismael will be better judged at the end of the season. All I am saying is these 3 defeats are not a "continuation of our recent form". 

 

 

[M_B]

29 minutes ago, booth said:

I don't know if it's defending him, and as someone else has said he is an uninspiring appointment. It's just far too easy to blame him when there are other factors at play.

We're without key defenders and our top scorer.

We have several players coming back from injury who won't be fully match fit.

We're without the manager that led them to sixth in shambolic circumstances.

We didn't strengthen in January. If anything we're weaker.

A lot of Rovers fans expected this to happen with Eustace.

Sure we won three in five but the Swansea game where we lost 3-0 before he took over was fucking diabolical. The matches under Ismael have been a continuation of the players being piss poor.

I'm not sure which manager could deal with that turmoil. There are other people at the club who are responsible for us dropping out of the play offs and it's important to direct our anger at the right people.

Spot on, to just compare form right now to other times in the season is as pointless as it is ridiculous. That isn't to excuse some of the dross served up over the last 4 games.

I actually think he's looking more to next season, let's face it he needs to. Like Eustace coming in when he did, I'm hoping this period will stand him in good stead for next season.

[islander200]

16 minutes ago, Hasta said:

 

Sry didn't mean to quote your post Hasta but yes my initial post was worded incorrectly,  I meant we have played in patches this season  good or woeful form 

 

19 minutes ago, StHelensRover said:

I agree we can't be hysterical about his appointment, one man in front of me in BBE on Sat started screaming "Ismael out" when second Cardiff goal went in... 

But I was very underwhelmed by the fact that not once in the last few weeks has he ever mentioned the words "playoff" or "promotion", given that he inherited a team that was in 5th with a mouthwatering run of fixtures giving the opportunity cement that. Then after defeats at Derby and Stoke, two of this season's actual donkey teams, he started talking about the summer and preparing for next season. A complete lack of interest and ambition. Alarming for me.

Agree with his comments about promotion and this season but that has come from above.He will have no pressure from above to secure a top 6 position this season 

If the club was ambitious and really wanted promotion this year then Ismael wouldn't have been appointed. They would have thrown money at a name on an initial deal until the end of the season with big bonuses attached. 

He was given that length of contract because the club fully believe that we will still be a championship club next season and he will work under the conditions set by them like having minimal say in recruitment 

 

Edited March 18 by islander200

[martonrover]

14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

He was interviewed by zoom as were several candidates before Rovers have a final shortlist which appears to be Ismael and Wagner, but the move for Ismael as he was the choice of 4 people were made after Swansea 

Therefore, it was already in the offing.

You don’t work for the club and have no definite information about the process.

Like the rest of us, you are feeding off scraps from the media.

14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think you are naïve thinking Waggott, Pasha or Gestede are going to tell them who is interviewed or not. Interviews were done via Zoom and in London

Sorry, but you calling someone else naive is priceless.

The players will find things out indirectly.

It’s commonplace in all workplaces.

14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

hear from where? 

Local media and supporters of clubs he’s previously managed.

14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes I remember quite alot of people saying similar things about Eustace when he came in. 

Ismael and Wagner were 2 names I mentioned from day one cos that the type of appointment I thought it what we would go for

I certainly didn’t say he was a poor fit, in fact quite the contrary.

I was pleasantly amazed, because Stuart McCall was a strong rumour.

A lot of the backlash was that people were unhappy that JDT had gone, and Eustace was seen as a Waggott appointment, therefore damned by association.

 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, booth said:

I don't know if it's defending him, and as someone else has said he is an uninspiring appointment. It's just far too easy to blame him when there are other factors at play.

We're without key defenders and our top scorer.

We have several players coming back from injury who won't be fully match fit.

We're without the manager that led them to sixth in shambolic circumstances.

We didn't strengthen in January. If anything we're weaker.

A lot of Rovers fans expected this to happen with Eustace.

Sure we won three in five but the Swansea game where we lost 3-0 before he took over was fucking diabolical. The matches under Ismael have been a continuation of the players being piss poor.

I'm not sure which manager could deal with that turmoil. There are other people at the club who are responsible for us dropping out of the play offs and it's important to direct our anger at the right people.

I totally agree that Ismael is clearly not who the brunt of the anger should be aimed at. Its the owners.

But speaking specifically in the Ismael thread, I think it has been beyond a mere continuation of what we have seen before. I think that might have been more of a valid argument had we gained a disappointing say 3 or 4 points from 3 games against teams in the bottom 5. We have lost games in isolation v poor teams before he joined, and had we done so once or even twice in the last week, then ok, but to lose all 3 is unacceptable. Yes we have injury problems (we seem to pick up a new one each game since he joined so maybe questions can arise about training methods) but we have more than enough to at least get some points from these last 3 games to avoid already having nothing to play for.

And the performances have been a huge concern. Ismael seems confused, changing formations, changing tact from wanting to not change much to now talking about the changes hes making. That confusion is evident in the performances of the players. We stand off more and press even less, we seem more keen to pass for the sake of passing. Its not just a continuation, its a further decline.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Ismael's banner on Linkedin suggests "I never lose. I either win or I learn.

Won 0

Drawn 1

Learned 3

Technically undefeated 

 

He's learning a lot then.

[lraC]

4 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

He's learning a lot then.

The worry is, he might carry on learning and he will know an awful lot, about losing. 

[booth]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I totally agree that Ismael is clearly not who the brunt of the anger should be aimed at. Its the owners.

But speaking specifically in the Ismael thread, I think it has been beyond a mere continuation of what we have seen before. I think that might have been more of a valid argument had we gained a disappointing say 3 or 4 points from 3 games against teams in the bottom 5. We have lost games in isolation v poor teams before he joined, and had we done so once or even twice in the last week, then ok, but to lose all 3 is unacceptable. Yes we have injury problems (we seem to pick up a new one each game since he joined so maybe questions can arise about training methods) but we have more than enough to at least get some points from these last 3 games to avoid already having nothing to play for.

And the performances have been a huge concern. Ismael seems confused, changing formations, changing tact from wanting to not change much to now talking about the changes hes making. That confusion is evident in the performances of the players. We stand off more and press even less, we seem more keen to pass for the sake of passing. Its not just a continuation, its a further decline.

 It is a further decline, it's the worst mini run of the season of which he's overseen four games, but the squad has been in poor shape. It may get better now that Travis and Tronstad are back but we're now struggling in defence. Thanks to Sufail and Maggott we also have a new manager who is just getting to know the squads failings.

I'm not convinced by Ismael but looking at the bigger picture he's been dealt a bad hand and he came in off the back off an awful 3-0 defeat to Swansea which was one of the worst performances of the season.

Eustace left for an awful team like Derby to avoid exactly this, that says a lot.

[Herbie6590]

4 hours ago, M_B said:

I get that, but surely having someone on the pitch who knows where the net is, would increase the chance of getting into a goalscoring position, hence affecting the xg.

It’s where the ball is when the attempt on goal is made, so conceivably yes…but what this graph is saying is that we are giving up more & better chances to our opponents & creating fewer & worse chances than just a few weeks ago…causation or correlation?

Depends on what you think of Ismael & his likely impact…

[Herbie6590]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Ismael's banner on Linkedin suggests "I never lose. I either win or I learn.

Won 0

Drawn 1

Learned 3

Technically undefeated 

 

So that’s what L stands for…who knew?