Valérien Ismaël: Blackburn Rovers Head Coach

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, booth said:

 It is a further decline, it's the worst mini run of the season of which he's overseen four games, but the squad has been in poor shape. It may get better now that Travis and Tronstad are back but we're now struggling in defence. Thanks to Sufail and Maggott we also have a new manager who is just getting to know the squads failings.

I'm not convinced by Ismael but looking at the bigger picture he's been dealt a bad hand and he came in off the back off an awful 3-0 defeat to Swansea which was one of the worst performances of the season.

Eustace left for an awful team like Derby to avoid exactly this, that says a lot.

He has had Hyam, Carter, Travis and Tronstad available for all of the games. I know Tronstad has not been fully fit but to prior to Ismael's game, it had been a long while since Travis and Tronstad had been included in the same squad. Our form had not been great but its misleading to focus on only one game considering we had won 3 in 5.

Suhail and Waggott arent even the main problem, Venkys are but they are clearly much bigger problems than the manager. I certainly would be the first to criticise the way the club is run, I have criticised the recruitment especially in January but also the summer. But specific to this thread, what Ismael has overseen (when you would expect some sort of new manager bounce) has not been a continuation of poor results. Its considerably worse even than that, and IMO performances and tactics used have also been very poor.

[islander200]

32 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Our form had not been great but its misleading to focus on only one game considering we had won 3 in 5.

 

It's Been inconsistent all through the season before the 6 game winning run,7 without a win losing 5 of them and drawing twice, straight after the 6 game winning run no win in 5, 3 defeats and 2 draws.Then won a game...then lost 3 and so on...

It has been crap since Ismael come in but it is still only 4 games.Despite the 3 wins in 5 leading up to his appointment it still wasn't an easy situation he was coming into.Zero points from the last 3 games is awful but like I have said previously it wouldn't have shocked me if Eustace was still in charge we had got zero points 

We have a weak mentality and have had it for years 

[RevidgeBlue]

Cant believe the number of people lining up to defend Ismael.

Yes we know about the owners and the deeper issues affecting the Club. Yes we know the January window was a disaster as always.

However, Eustace had this squad in and around the play offs all season and even Lowe managed 2 wins out of 3 in very trying circumstances. A new permanent manager should have had the team ready to run through a brick wall given the promising position we were in.

Instead we've conceded goals inside the first 20 minutes in the last three games and in 360 minutes of football we've not been ahead once! It's just not good enough and needs to change pronto.

Frankly if Ismael couldnt motivate them when we were in the play off mix with 12 games to go I dread to think how he'll do it at the start of a new season but we'll have to live in hope I suppose.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

We've gone to shit under the new man,result's unacceptable.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

There’s no real accountability at any level at the club. From top to bottom. Nobody came in on Monday morning fearing the sack. It’s as simple as that.

[simongarnerisgod]

we`ve gone crap defensively in three games under ismael and  we ar`nt creating chances despite lots of possesion,he`s not getting his message across and the players hav`nt taken to his methods,thats pretty clear

[Torgeir]

26 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

we`ve gone crap defensively in three games under ismael and  we ar`nt creating chances despite lots of possesion,he`s not getting his message across and the players hav`nt taken to his methods,thats pretty clear

Coincides with Batth out injured. He doesn't concede soft goals like we have been conceding lately.

[M_B]

4 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Cant believe the number of people lining up to defend Ismael.

Yes we know about the owners and the deeper issues affecting the Club. Yes we know the January window was a disaster as always.

However, Eustace had this squad in and around the play offs all season and even Lowe managed 2 wins out of 3 in very trying circumstances. A new permanent manager should have had the team ready to run through a brick wall given the promising position we were in.

Instead we've conceded goals inside the first 20 minutes in the last three games and in 360 minutes of football we've not been ahead once! It's just not good enough and needs to change pronto.

Frankly if Ismael couldnt motivate them when we were in the play off mix with 12 games to go I dread to think how he'll do it at the start of a new season but we'll have to live in hope I suppose.

I'm not defending the performances, they've been dire, but the comparisons have been way off.

Eustace didn't have this squad available to Ismael in the play offs, it's been decimated. Everyone agrees Eustace was let down in the January window, he supposedly left because of it, yet Ismael has been left with a shell of even Eustace's squad.

I just hope that the time he has left this season, stands him in good stead for the start of next season,as was the case under Eustace.

[chaddyrovers]

11 hours ago, sharpysharps86 said:

We're talking promotions to the premier league though aren't we? Edwards has one of those, an fair play to him for doing so. The other was a promotion out of League Two, which doesn't really scratch the surface and is somewhat irrelevant given its two tiers below Rovers. Mark Hughes, one of our best modern managers failed to get a promotion out of League Two with Bradford, so its a mute point IMO. That aside, you go with the here and now, and Edwards struggled massively this season with Luton, whereas Eustace had us punching well above our weight.

It's a pointless discussion anyway, he didn't come here and we're stuck with someone who so far appears to be clearly inferior of either Edwards or Eustace. Lucky us!

 

11 hours ago, sharpysharps86 said:

We're talking promotions to the premier league though aren't we? Edwards has one of those, an fair play to him for doing so. The other was a promotion out of League Two, which doesn't really scratch the surface and is somewhat irrelevant given its two tiers below Rovers. Mark Hughes, one of our best modern managers failed to get a promotion out of League Two with Bradford, so its a mute point IMO. That aside, you go with the here and now, and Edwards struggled massively this season with Luton, whereas Eustace had us punching well above our weight.

 

Promotion is promotion tho. Edwards has done it twice yet Eustace hasn't but RF99 says it downgrade. That's the bit I'm questioning which it can't be can it. 

Mark Hughes was a very good manager here but after the Southampton job he couldn't get a job anywhere and he ended up at Bradford. 

11 hours ago, sharpysharps86 said:

It's a pointless discussion anyway, he didn't come here and we're stuck with someone who so far appears to be clearly inferior of either Edwards or Eustace. Lucky us!

I remember quite a lot of people writing Eustace off on here after 4 games. 

Ismael record in the championship, Barnsley playoffs, Wba in playoffs when sacked and 9th when sacked at Watford. His CV aren't half as bad as people on here make out. 

Edited Tuesday at 23:21 by chaddyrovers

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, martonrover said:

Therefore, it was already in the offing.

You don’t work for the club and have no definite information about the process.

Like the rest of us, you are feeding off scraps from the media.

The final process only started after the Swansea game in which we were battered them. 

You don't have any inside info either but I do know what was reported in the media and Ismael being the choice of Rovers head coach

10 hours ago, martonrover said:

Local media and supporters of clubs he’s previously managed.

No biased there but here is his actually record. 

Playoffs with Barnsley. Sacked by WBA in the playoffs and sacked by Watford when 9th. His record ain't that bad and if anything decent enough. 

10 hours ago, martonrover said:

I was pleasantly amazed, because Stuart McCall was a strong rumour.

Really? Strong rumour from where? Social media?.

10 hours ago, martonrover said:

A lot of the backlash was that people were unhappy that JDT had gone, and Eustace was seen as a Waggott appointment, therefore damned by association.

Quite of alot of people never took to JDT and his style aswell. 

[Southside Rover]

16 hours ago, islander200 said:

?.Eustace hadn't gone anywhere when Woodrow was brought In.The Derby job wasn't even available. Ismael didn't want Dennis when he was at Watford 

 

21 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Eustace only left 10 days after the transfer window closed on 13th Feb

Swansea game was on 22th February. The transfer window shut on the 3rd of Feb. 

And we don't think conversations start until it's in the press?

We'll never know what happens behind closed doors especially here but as I posted, it's the only logic I can find in that signing

[roversfan99]

51 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Promotion is promotion tho. Edwards has done it twice yet Eustace hasn't but RF99 says it downgrade. That's the bit I'm questioning which it can't be can it. 

Mark Hughes was a very good manager here but after the Southampton job he couldn't get a job anywhere and he ended up at Bradford. 

I remember quite a lot of people writing Eustace off on here after 4 games. 

Ismael record in the championship, Barnsley playoffs, Wba in playoffs when sacked and 9th when sacked at Watford. His CV aren't half as bad as people on here make out. 

Is Coyle a better manager than Eustace?

Judging a manager isnt as black and white as number of promotions. Same when people start quoting win percentages, it depends on the context of the jobs they do, its subjective.

Youve spent days mocking my suggestion of Edwards (I said he was the best of an overall poor group of linked managers) in an attempt to deflect and make Ismael seem better. Now you are saying that Edwards would have been an upgrade on Eustace purely because of the promotions. Yet Ismael has no promotions and he was an appointment you strongly endorsed and have refused to criticise or even admit there are concerns/red flags. Where is the consistency in your arguments?

[chaddyrovers]

46 minutes ago, Southside Rover said:

 

And we don't think conversations start until it's in the press?

We'll never know what happens behind closed doors especially here but as I posted, it's the only logic I can find in that signing

The Derby job wasn't available when the transfer window were closing

From what was reported, Rovers had loads of applicants, they compiled a short list of a number to do zoom interviews, then they went to London to meet some candidates(before Swansea game). Then after Swansea we moved for Ismael as the next head coach and he was appointed 

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Is Coyle a better manager than Eustace?

I think you are cheeky asking me questions cos when I have asked yourself questions directly you have ignored them regarding why Edwards is downgraded on Eustace or recruitment structure and how we do it or even what to do with the ball in the final third when the forward pass isn't on. 

Nope. 

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Judging a manager isnt as black and white as number of promotions. Same when people start quoting win percentages, it depends on the context of the jobs they do, its subjective.

So is saying Rob Edwards is downgraded on Eustace, when asked why you dont answer. Wonder why..

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Youve spent days mocking my suggestion of Edwards (I said he was the best of an overall poor group of linked managers) in an attempt to deflect and make Ismael seem better. Now you are saying that Edwards would have been an upgrade on Eustace purely because of the promotions. Yet Ismael has no promotions and he was an appointment you strongly endorsed and have refused to criticise or even admit there are concerns/red flags. Where is the consistency in your arguments?

No mocking but I asked you why is Edwards downgraded on Eustace. You are acting like Eustace is the best head coach in the world but even this season we lost to Rooney's Plymouth, Hull, Coventry under Robins and Stoke under Pelach..all of them were towards the bottom of the league. 

On your Ismael point, his CV isn't has bad as others say he is..its been 4 games and people did the same last season under Eustace. I said at the start of search for new head coach, I expected us to have Ismael and Wagner on the shortlist. You didn't I guess. Other people on my shortlist would have been Gary O'Neil, Rob Edwards, Damien Duff, Raphael Wicky, Philippe Montanier and Danny Cowley. 

On your concerns or criticism point is wrong. I posted the other day, about Ismael tactics and Formation when he brought on Woodrow and Cantwell and what the tactical plan, cos I didn't get it one bit 

Edited Wednesday at 04:23 by chaddyrovers

[Mattyblue]

Chadster, just a reminder in case you’ve forgot you need to change your pic to one of the manager.

Edited Wednesday at 06:43 by Mattyblue

[martonrover]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

The final process only started after the Swansea game in which we were battered them. 

You don't have any inside info either but I do know what was reported in the media and Ismael being the choice of Rovers head coach

No biased there but here is his actually record. 

Playoffs with Barnsley. Sacked by WBA in the playoffs and sacked by Watford when 9th. His record ain't that bad and if anything decent enough. 

Really? Strong rumour from where? Social media?.

Quite of alot of people never took to JDT and his style aswell. 

1 / Speculation being passed off as fact.

2/  I’m not claiming to have inside information.

3/ Apart from a play off place at Barnsley, (after Struber had laid down all the groundwork), his only tangible success has been with Wolfsburg’s second team, and he’s had more clubs than Rory McIlroy. Giving him a 3.5 year deal was sheer lunacy.

4/ Mainstream media (and of little importance anyway). Eustace hadn’t been mentioned, but was clearly someone on his way up and still young and hungry.

5/ JDT was generally very popular and got an easy ride when things went pear shaped, because the owners and their hired goons were the chief culprits.

 

 

[islander200]

30 minutes ago, martonrover said:

 

3/ Apart from a play off place at Barnsley, (after Struber had laid down all the groundwork), his only tangible success has been with Wolfsburg’s second team, and he’s had more clubs than Rory McIlroy. Giving him a 3.5 year deal was sheer lunacy.

 

 

 

 

Come off it. Trying to credit Struber with their top 6 finish. Could you expand on that? How did Struber lay the groundwork? 

They finished just above relegation under Struber and got relegated the season after Ismael left after he had taken them to the playoffs.

They played a different style under Ismael to what they did under Struber, they also signed Darryl Dikes under Ismael who was a big player for them when fit

[booth]

18 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

He has had Hyam, Carter, Travis and Tronstad available for all of the games. I know Tronstad has not been fully fit but to prior to Ismael's game, it had been a long while since Travis and Tronstad had been included in the same squad. Our form had not been great but its misleading to focus on only one game considering we had won 3 in 5.

Suhail and Waggott arent even the main problem, Venkys are but they are clearly much bigger problems than the manager. I certainly would be the first to criticise the way the club is run, I have criticised the recruitment especially in January but also the summer. But specific to this thread, what Ismael has overseen (when you would expect some sort of new manager bounce) has not been a continuation of poor results. Its considerably worse even than that, and IMO performances and tactics used have also been very poor.

I don't know if you've been watching the games. I've seen every one.

Carter has been awful - possibly not match fit.

Hyam has been awful - he is obviously missing Batth, and it's not the first time he's been poor when he's lost his defensive partner. I'm not sure what Hyam is playing at, he seems a petulant character as seen by his elbow on the goalie against Norwich.

Travis has obviously been affected by the changes, he's not been the same player - possibly wasn't fully fit, rushed back, and missed Tronstad when he returned. Now his head has dropped with the results.

Tronstad wasn't fully fit when he returned, though he was better against Cardiff.

At Stoke and Derby Pears was especially poor and back to gifting the opposition opportunities. I'm not sure what a manager can do about that.

I'm not sure if Ismael is the right appointment, I defended Eustace last year even though I wasn't sure about him for similar reasons. The general state of the club is so muddy at the moment there's no way of knowing if it's his influence, the players or just that he's come in at a bad time. I've seen it so many times before under previous managers.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Chadster, just a reminder in case you’ve forgot you need to change your pic to one of the manager.

No chance. Stay as Uncle Jack now 

[booth]

2 hours ago, islander200 said:

Come off it. Trying to credit Struber with their top 6 finish. Could you expand on that? How did Struber lay the groundwork? 

They finished just above relegation under Struber and got relegated the season after Ismael left after he had taken them to the playoffs.

They played a different style under Ismael to what they did under Struber, they also signed Darryl Dikes under Ismael who was a big player for them when fit

Barnsley were good under Ismael, can't take that away from him. I remember that season well and he looked like he was going to be a top manager. Could have fluked it, which is the worry.

He looks to have done well at LASK. WBA sacked him in fifth place because they were chasing automatics at the time. Besiktas was a short term contract? I'm not sure what to make of his stint at Watford because they sack managers yearly, have high expectations and always fall short whoever is in charge.

[booth]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No chance. Stay as Uncle Jack now 

Excellent choice, but will there ever be a chance of a Venkys Out avatar? Jack would approve.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, martonrover said:

1 / Speculation being passed off as fact.

Not at all, but using what has been reported by the media. 

3 hours ago, martonrover said:

2/  I’m not claiming to have inside information.

Yes I know you dont

3 hours ago, martonrover said:

3/ Apart from a play off place at Barnsley, (after Struber had laid down all the groundwork), his only tangible success has been with Wolfsburg’s second team, and he’s had more clubs than Rory McIlroy. Giving him a 3.5 year deal was sheer lunacy.

Utter rubbish. Struber was playing a very different style to Ismael. 

It's interesting the length you are to dislike Ismael 🤔

3 hours ago, martonrover said:

4/ Mainstream media (and of little importance anyway). Eustace hadn’t been mentioned, but was clearly someone on his way up and still young and hungry.

For us? If so fair point. Jackson got that story..

3 hours ago, martonrover said:

5/ JDT was generally very popular and got an easy ride when things went pear shaped, because the owners and their hired goons were the chief culprits.

But the point still stands not popular with everyone 

[martonrover]

3 hours ago, islander200 said:

Come off it. Trying to credit Struber with their top 6 finish. Could you expand on that? How did Struber lay the groundwork? 

They finished just above relegation under Struber and got relegated the season after Ismael left after he had taken them to the playoffs.

They played a different style under Ismael to what they did under Struber, they also signed Darryl Dikes under Ismael who was a big player for them when fit

Struber didn’t take over until November in the season when they finished just above relegation zone, and his brief was clearly to keep them up, which he did.

Ismael got Barnsley in the Play Offs, whoopidoo.

At least Coyle won them.

Edited Wednesday at 10:35 by martonrover

[martonrover]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not at all, but using what has been reported by the media. 

Yes I know you dont

Utter rubbish. Struber was playing a very different style to Ismael. 

It's interesting the length you are to dislike Ismael 🤔

For us? If so fair point. Jackson got that story..

But the point still stands not popular with everyone 

I think Ismael could possibly do a job somewhere in European football, but ,as I’ve said umpteen times, I do not believe he was the right fit for us, or any ambitious Championship side, (so clearly he is the right fit for the clowns running the show at Rovers).

As we all know, the main problem is the owners and their hired goons.

If they had shown a bit of common sense and hired a senior figure until the end of the season, I’d wager they would’ve got more points on the board by now than this chump.

We might have even made the play offs.

Now we have e the worst of all worlds - a manger who has come in and upset the apple  cart, destroying any chance of success this season, and one who is unlikely to have a positive impact next season either.

A young manager on the up might at least have made next season a more appetising prospect.

Re - the other points, you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing.

Simply agree to disagree.

It’s a lovely day out there, go enjoy it.

 

 

[London blue]

37 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

It's interesting the length you are to dislike Ismael 🤔

You can be utterly insufferable at times.

Criticism of current staff isn't allowed. Once that P45 is delivered they're fair game.