Valérien Ismaël: Blackburn Rovers Head Coach

[chaddyrovers]

44 minutes ago, Tomphil2 said:

If Rudy is now the defacto DOF it;s not odd that he'd want someone like Ismael if they know each other and feel they can work together.

If Pasha is overruling Waggot on it though then it means Gestede is now ruling the roost.

Gestede is head of football operations at Rovers basically a Director of football role. 

[chaddyrovers]

39 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

O Neil didn't even make it through to a second round of interviews according to Jackson.

And that guy Crook at Talksport said that O Neill was out of the running long before that, presumably !as soon as he spoke to us.

That what I read from there. 

[roversfan99]

56 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No a head coach who fits into the structure and will accept the recruitment staff recommendations. 

I always thought Ismael appointment wasn't a Waggott one. More of Gestede and Owen. All 4 of them(Waggott, Pasha, Gestede and Owen) all interviewing candidates and I read They went to interviewed candidates in London before the Swansea game. Wagner and Ismael were the final candidates. 

 

 

You have just assumed that is the case. But it sounds about right and its the same as what I said.

Albeit I dont see appointing someone who happily accepts whatever players he is given as a positive thing. To me it shows that he realises that he wouldnt get a job at a club of similar standing without rolling over and having his belly tickled. Anyone decent wouldnt put up with that, as we have seen in each of the last two seasons.

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

You have just assumed that is the case. But it sounds about right and its the same as what I said.

Albeit I dont see appointing someone who happily accepts whatever players he is given as a positive thing. To me it shows that he realises that he wouldnt get a job at a club of similar standing without rolling over and having his belly tickled. Anyone decent wouldnt put up with that, as we have seen in each of the last two seasons.

Yet again you misunderstood again when the head coach gets involved in transfers. When he is present the shortlist and pick off that. You got to trust your recruitment staff otherwise it's won't work. Like with Eustace situation 

Plenty of head coaches put up with it cos that's how football clubs operate nowadays  Klopp wanted Brandt instead of Salah but his recruitment staff convince him that Salah was the right fit and how right they were. 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Come on, I think you need to go for a lie down.

It's important we don't detract from the real issues and lose traction  by diving back into the realms of conspiracy theory.

We had all this crap after they first took took over, Venky's not the real owners, criminal gangs etc etc. All that did was detract from the main issue which is that they are and always have been really terrible owners albeit they were prepared to chuck a lot of money away on our behalf up until a couple of years or so ago.

In bold = spot on.

"Prepared to chuck a lot of money away" not as much. They have done the bare minimum, which is raise share capital to offset the losses made to pay the bills (basically all clubs make losses at this level) in order to avoid risking administration. Something they only avoided in the last year because of a one off fluke record sale that covered those bills. Theyll have to and presumably will cover the loss this year.

Being prepared to chuck money away would surely mean willingly investing/reinvesting proceeds at a reasonable level to improve the squad. Weve not spent more than £2m on a player since 2019.

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Yet again you misunderstood again when the head coach gets involved in transfers. When he is present the shortlist and pick off that. You got to trust your recruitment staff otherwise it's won't work. Like with Eustace situation 

Plenty of head coaches put up with it cos that's how football clubs operate nowadays  Klopp wanted Brandt instead of Salah but his recruitment staff convince him that Salah was the right fit and how right they were. 

Youve still not realised that this club doesnt have a functional operation of recruitment. Why would you happily and blindly accept it if you had anything about you considering your reputation is on the line?

If you willingly accept what is foisted on you, its generally cheap and randomly assembled shite, not specifically suited to any style you might want to play. 

Theres a reason we all call for the same  things every window. A new number 1. Pacy wingers. A goalscorer. They never get sorted.

Eustace was right not to trust the recruitment. Ismael probably doesnt but he might just keep his opinions to his self knowing he has a nice long contract and he wont get a good job if he was to leave.

[martonrover]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Or Maybe Rovers were looking for a different head coach and a head coach who will listen and accept the recruitment team who suggested signings and not come up with their own sgnings

did we? what happens if that gone the same way, your opinion would be the other way. 

rising star? very few fit this type of appointment and we seen Stoke try this and went nowhere or Joe Edwards at Millwall 

or do we take risk on a head coach in league 1 or 2 and what would happens if all went pear shape, you would here criticising them for that, so tbh the club could do nothing right unless they appoint a Warnock or Allardyce who you wanted despite Warnock being 76 years old and Allardyce being 70 years old. 

Give it a rest.

When we appointed Ismael it was obvious to some of us that he was a poor appointment.

Im not interested in your petty bickering contests and point scoring.

Wake up and smell the mustard.

We don’t just need a new head coach , we need new owners for anything to change from this constant cycle of doom.

Hope you enjoy all us naughty people making our feelings clear on Friday evening during the dead rubber of a game, (for us).

 

Edited Monday at 23:40 by martonrover

[lraC]

I am as close t being 100% certain, as I can be now, about Gary O Neil, being Waggott's choice and Pasha over ruled him, as Ismael was cheaper.

There are two different sources, who have since confirmed, this as being accurate and before anyone asks, no I won't name them, but I 100% trust them both. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Youve still not realised that this club doesnt have a functional operation of recruitment. Why would you happily and blindly accept it if you had anything about you considering your reputation is on the line?

If you willingly accept what is foisted on you, its generally cheap and randomly assembled shite, not specifically suited to any style you might want to play. 

Theres a reason we all call for the same  things every window. A new number 1. Pacy wingers. A goalscorer. They never get sorted.

Eustace was right not to trust the recruitment. Ismael probably doesnt but he might just keep his opinions to his self knowing he has a nice long contract and he wont get a good job if he was to leave.

We’ve  been needing a new goal keeper for nearly as long as we’ve been needing a pacy winger.

Edited yesterday at 08:34 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[lraC]

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We’ve  been needing a new goal keeper for nearly as long as we’ve been needing a pacy winger.

My second grandson is due in June, he could be all 3 of these!!!

[G Somerset Rover]

55 minutes ago, lraC said:

I am as close t being 100% certain, as I can be now, about Gary O Neil, being Waggott's choice and Pasha over ruled him, as Ismael was cheaper.

There are two different sources, who have since confirmed, this as being accurate and before anyone asks, no I won't name them, but I 100% trust them both. 

Waggott needs booting out of this club with a king sized rocket placed directly up his arse, but the number 1 target needs to be Suhail. Get him uncomfortable enough and the house of cards will begin to tumble IMO.

Edited yesterday at 08:55 by G Somerset Rover

[lraC]

1 minute ago, G Somerset Rover said:

Waggott needs booting out of this club with a king sized rocket placed directly up his arse, but the number 1 target needs to be Suhail. Get him uncomfortable enough and the house of cards will begin to tumble IMO.

Pasha is without doubt the most dangerous of anyone at the club.

He has now surrounded himself with Gestede and Ismael, so much as I dislike Waggott, he is now isolated and won't be around for much longer, I wouldn't think.

[Ghost7]

I wonder if this will be the quickest sacking in football? At other clubs it would be. His impact has been totally unacceptable and clearly doesn't bode well for the future. That said the reality is a good CEO probably wouldn't have appointed him in the first place, and a well ran club would have used their position in 5th to attract a "better than they could usually get manager" by paying some compensation..... yet another opportunity to show some ambition gone, opportunities that you have to capitalise on with the support of your owners.

There is no reason why we couldn't have someone far better, other than Venky's, Waggott and Suhail Pasha.

Get the lot of them out!

[Mattyblue]

Quickest sacking in football, here? For a bloke with a three and a half year deal?

What do you reckon?

[M_B]

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You have just assumed that is the case. But it sounds about right and its the same as what I said.

Albeit I dont see appointing someone who happily accepts whatever players he is given as a positive thing. To me it shows that he realises that he wouldnt get a job at a club of similar standing without rolling over and having his belly tickled. Anyone decent wouldnt put up with that, as we have seen in each of the last two seasons.

I disagree on that, if the situation is that the coach coaches the players provided, then the coach has to be totally on board.

It needs to be understood from day one. To me it's the ambiguity of the situation which has been the main  problem with the last 2 coaches.

If you look at the transfer business done in January, Eustace got covered   more or less the positions everyone was calling out for. It isn't the "what" he got, it's the "who" he got which seems to be the problem.

 

I'm not saying it's the right way to go, but  if that's how it is then all parties need to be on board or it definitely won't work. I can't say it's how I'd be thinking, but I'm sure there are many examples of clubs where it works successfully.

[roversfan99]

45 minutes ago, M_B said:

I disagree on that, if the situation is that the coach coaches the players provided, then the coach has to be totally on board.

It needs to be understood from day one. To me it's the ambiguity of the situation which has been the main  problem with the last 2 coaches.

If you look at the transfer business done in January, Eustace got covered   more or less the positions everyone was calling out for. It isn't the "what" he got, it's the "who" he got which seems to be the problem.

 

I'm not saying it's the right way to go, but  if that's how it is then all parties need to be on board or it definitely won't work. I can't say it's how I'd be thinking, but I'm sure there are many examples of clubs where it works successfully.

Its all well and good saying about being on board from the start. Things change. When recruitment goes wrong, whether that means signing shit players, not signing enough players, not signing players that he would like, not signing players suited to how he wants to play, anyone would become frustrated.

Tomasson was on board from the start, he was used to a similar model. But this is Venkys run Rovers. When signings of poor quality were repeatedly foisted upon him, positions he needed were neglected, they slashed the budget mid window etc, its his head on the block and he grew more and more frustrated to the point of leaving.

With Ismael, it may take him longer because unlike the previous 2 he wont be walking into another decent job for example at Championship level anytime soon because this will be his third failed Champipnship job in a row and hes sat on a long contract.

[Tricky]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Quickest sacking in football, here? For a bloke with a three and a half year deal?

What do you reckon?

Hopefully, but i just cant seem him getting sacked, i guess similarly we can hope he leaves by mutual consent or if we're hoping for sooner, his position becomes so untenable he has to resign.

[JHRover]

The only way he gets sacked is either if he deliberately turns the spotlight himself onto Venkys / Curtain Twitcher

Or if the pressure that has been building in the last couple of weeks grows and grows over the coming months and eventually the Curtain Twitcher feels he has no other option but to feed Ismael to the wolves, a last gasp desperate sacrifice to attempt to diffuse the anger and quieten the public down (this is the sort of stunt that would be pulled at a normal club, where a panic stricken owner or chairman bits the bullet and pays the necessary to remove a manager and in doing so diverts anger and focus back onto the pitch/new manager). 

At Rovers however even this second option highly unlikely because even that would require going to the Indians and requesting permission to pay someone off, which just doesn't happen unless the person asking for it wants to get themselves into all manner of trouble. 

Best off just heads down and hope it blows over.

[Tomphil2]

Iv'e been calling this Pasha guy out for years it's nice the spotlight is finally on him and he has had no choice to put his head up.

You just don't have someone working at a club who hides in the shadows all the time, half don't know he's there and the other half don't actually know or won't say what he actually does. Even various managers have been unable to or stopped short of naming his role.

Its been off from the start and now he seems to carry the Chief Operating Officer title then obviously he is (and always has been) the big cheese.

So how much of the constant circus down there is really down to him ?

I'd say most of it and Waggot has been happy as a Venky stooge taking his money and covering for them or just hiding away himself aside from his corporate lounge hob nobbing.

Chain of command now looks like it'll be Suhail - Gestede - Ismael.

Buckle up we are going back to the Kean or at very least the Coyle years imo.

[Norbert Rassragr]

4 hours ago, Ghost7 said:

I wonder if this will be the quickest sacking in football? At other clubs it would be. His impact has been totally unacceptable and clearly doesn't bode well for the future. That said the reality is a good CEO probably wouldn't have appointed him in the first place, and a well ran club would have used their position in 5th to attract a "better than they could usually get manager" by paying some compensation..... yet another opportunity to show some ambition gone, opportunities that you have to capitalise on with the support of your owners.

There is no reason why we couldn't have someone far better, other than Venky's, Waggott and Suhail Pasha.

Get the lot of them out!

Leroy Rosinier was Torquay manager for 15 minutes, but I think he resigned.

[JamieUK]

It's not going to happen but let's not forget there's the £500k-£750k they got for JE to use if they wanted to sack him. Use that and go grovel to Gary O'Neil..

[norwichblue]

1 hour ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Leroy Rosinier was Torquay manager for 15 minutes, but I think he resigned.

Sven at Notts County can’t be too far behind. They also had an (extremely) dodgy shadow man behind the scenes.

BBC did a great podcast about the story if anyone wants to take their mind off of our own circus for a while - 

 

[Tomphil2]

Following on from that interview with the 3 stooges i'm still struggling to get my head around why appoint this guy.

They went through their tick box exercise and said he hit the standard on all of them and that is extremely worrying and i suspect a bit of a lie.

Could understand Eustace he was ideal for where we were, had a cv of saving a struggling club from relegation then having them in the top 6.  Could understand JDT even if he was another left field appointment, good brand of continental style football and had just won back to back Swedish top league titles.

This guy though is nothing more than a mercenary looking at his record yet they waxed on about him bringing everything we need to the table.

Can only assume that a WLD dull style football record and aiming for 12th is what they aspire to as long as they can tell him who to play and keep selling players from under him.

This was nearly as bad as Waggots 'best bus in football' snakeoil job.

[John]

15 minutes ago, Tomphil2 said:

Following on from that interview with the 3 stooges i'm still struggling to get my head around why appoint this guy.

They went through their tick box exercise and said he hit the standard on all of them and that is extremely worrying and i suspect a bit of a lie.

Could understand Eustace he was ideal for where we were, had a cv of saving a struggling club from relegation then having them in the top 6.  Could understand JDT even if he was another left field appointment, good brand of continental style football and had just won back to back Swedish top league titles.

This guy though is nothing more than a mercenary looking at his record yet they waxed on about him bringing everything we need to the table.

Can only assume that a WLD dull style football record and aiming for 12th is what they aspire to as long as they can tell him who to play and keep selling players from under him.

This was nearly as bad as Waggots 'best bus in football' snakeoil job.

Doesn’t make sense and doesn’t stack up but what does…? Gestede as head of football operations because he’s a former player and has no credentials at all for the role……..it’s all a total sham. 

[Tomphil2]

7 minutes ago, John said:

Doesn’t make sense and doesn’t stack up but what does…? Gestede as head of football operations because he’s a former player and has no credentials at all for the role……..it’s all a total sham. 

It can really only be he's French, he knows Rudy, his record isn't good but isn't a disaster, he keeps getting sacked and is desperate for a job stability so he'll himself fit right into our wage budget.

Edited 15 hours ago by Tomphil2