2025 Summer Transfer Thread. 😂

[Tomphil2]

41 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mike Cheston was our previously financial director before retiring to be replaced by Matt Wright as CFO.

We havent had any other financial director at Rovers 

Both Badu and the other fella are directors and are financial people on behalf of Venkys, please point me to what else they are if they aren't that ?

I'll reiterate, just how many financial people does one football club need, way too many layers at this club that leads to constant confusion as we've seen.

Edited April 14 by Tomphil2

[chaddyrovers]

26 minutes ago, Tomphil2 said:

Both Badu and the other fella are directors and are financial people on behalf of Venkys, please point me to what else they are if they aren't that ?

I'll reiterate, just how many financial people does one football club need, way too many layers at this club that leads to constant confusion as we've seen.

we don't know what they actually do as Board members or even if they are paid a salary as board members or not? 

[47er]

4 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

if there are other clubs interested then forget it,our wage offer will be pathetic,lovely to see we are trying  the free transfer market already 😁
 

A lot of names being thrown around at he moment in a vain attempt to convince us we have something to look forward to.

[lraC]

10 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

not sure we signed less talented players 

 

I am.

[lraC]

In the season 2020/21 we had the following players at the club:

Kaminski, Harwood-Bellis, Branthwaite, Ayala, Mulgrew, Elliott, Downing, Dack, Armstrong and Brereton.

That's 10 players in my opinion, who are more talented, than most of the players amongst this years squad, so 4 years on, we still seem to have the same wage bill apparently, despite the reduction in player quality. I think if you match up the starting line up, in any of the games we have played this season, you would choose most of these players, over those who have actually played, but maybe some would disagree with that.

Granted some of these players were on loan, but apart from one, all have played in the premier league.

Maybe it is me being unkind, but the wage bill is surely distorted in some way, if it is constantly around £25m every season for the last 5. 

[DutchRover]

If Director wages are included we might have an idea from the latest set of accounts....

[lraC]

34 minutes ago, DutchRover said:

If Director wages are included we might have an idea from the latest set of accounts....

I know we have certain people on here, who understand detailed accounts. With my job, I do need to have a decent knowledge of both Limited company and sole trader/ trader accounts. It is impossible to decipher, the split in wages and the only way to actually find this out, would be for the club or the clubs accountants to state this.

I know it is unlikely, but to be able to determine what is really happening, perhaps a breakdown of wages for players, wages for none playing staff and wages and P11D benefits for directors, would be required, 

[KentExile]

3 hours ago, lraC said:

In the season 2020/21 we had the following players at the club:

Kaminski, Harwood-Bellis, Branthwaite, Ayala, Mulgrew, Elliott, Downing, Dack, Armstrong and Brereton.

That's 10 players in my opinion, who are more talented, than most of the players amongst this years squad, so 4 years on, we still seem to have the same wage bill apparently, despite the reduction in player quality. I think if you match up the starting line up, in any of the games we have played this season, you would choose most of these players, over those who have actually played, but maybe some would disagree with that.

Granted some of these players were on loan, but apart from one, all have played in the premier league.

Maybe it is me being unkind, but the wage bill is surely distorted in some way, if it is constantly around £25m every season for the last 5. 

Wasn't JDT also quoted as stating that the player wage bill (or maybe he said "budget"?) had been decreased by something approaching 25% at the start of last season?  Which would have been covered in the period covered by the latest accounts

Something about the constant £25Mish wage bill (every year!) does not seem right

 

Edited April 15 by KentExile

[joey_big_nose]

6 hours ago, lraC said:

In the season 2020/21 we had the following players at the club:

Kaminski, Harwood-Bellis, Branthwaite, Ayala, Mulgrew, Elliott, Downing, Dack, Armstrong and Brereton.

That's 10 players in my opinion, who are more talented, than most of the players amongst this years squad, so 4 years on, we still seem to have the same wage bill apparently, despite the reduction in player quality. I think if you match up the starting line up, in any of the games we have played this season, you would choose most of these players, over those who have actually played, but maybe some would disagree with that.

Granted some of these players were on loan, but apart from one, all have played in the premier league.

Maybe it is me being unkind, but the wage bill is surely distorted in some way, if it is constantly around £25m every season for the last 5. 

I am not sure I would be taking that squad as an example... Out of that list I'd take Kaminski, Harwood-Bellis, Armstrong and Brereton out those. Mulgrew by that time was a total liability, Elliott poor, Ayala constantly injured, Downing struggling in his second season, Branthwaite poor, Dack had done his cruciate in 2019 and was out for a year, and never a decent player again. 

Really I haven't seen much variation in the quality of the squad since we have been in the Championship. Some decent players some poor players season after season. Good enough to finish mid table somewhere.

[Tomphil2]

5 hours ago, lraC said:

I know we have certain people on here, who understand detailed accounts. With my job, I do need to have a decent knowledge of both Limited company and sole trader/ trader accounts. It is impossible to decipher, the split in wages and the only way to actually find this out, would be for the club or the clubs accountants to state this.

I know it is unlikely, but to be able to determine what is really happening, perhaps a breakdown of wages for players, wages for none playing staff and wages and P11D benefits for directors, would be required, 

Wouldn't surprise me if there's various staff names on the payroll who nobody knows what they actually do.

An 'adviser' on ten grand a week, that sort of thing.

[lraC]

1 hour ago, Tomphil2 said:

Wouldn't surprise me if there's various staff names on the payroll who nobody knows what they actually do.

An 'adviser' on ten grand a week, that sort of thing.

Me neither.

What would bother me even more, is if people are still being paid, who were around from the very beginning, such as agents and managers and maybe even the son of an agent, as I would not put anything past this regime. 

[dingles staying down 4ever]

3 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

I am not sure I would be taking that squad as an example... Out of that list I'd take Kaminski, Harwood-Bellis, Armstrong and Brereton out those. Mulgrew by that time was a total liability, Elliott poor, Ayala constantly injured, Downing struggling in his second season, Branthwaite poor, Dack had done his cruciate in 2019 and was out for a year, and never a decent player again. 

Really I haven't seen much variation in the quality of the squad since we have been in the Championship. Some decent players some poor players season after season. Good enough to finish mid table somewhere.

Harvey Elliott was hardly poor.

[Exiled_Rover]

23 hours ago, lraC said:

I know it hasn’t and that’s the bit Im struggling with. We seem to have signed less talented players in the last 3-4 years, or to be fair, cheaper options, where you would expect lower wages to be paid, yet the £25m seems to be a constant.

We've been dealing in cheap loans and journeyman free agents rather than marquee cash signings (Dack renewed contract, Armstrong, Gallagher, Brereton-Diaz) for the last 5 years and the wage budget hasn't decreased according to the accounts.

Ayala and Downing wouldn't have been cheap either.

There's absolutely no way we're even sniffing the wage bill of that side you listed. Who is the money being spent on!?

[lraC]

20 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

We've been dealing in cheap loans and journeyman free agents rather than marquee cash signings (Dack renewed contract, Armstrong, Gallagher, Brereton-Diaz) for the last 5 years and the wage budget hasn't decreased according to the accounts.

Ayala and Downing wouldn't have been cheap either.

There's absolutely no way we're even sniffing the wage bill of that side you listed. Who is the money being spent on!?

My guess is hangers on and the people who were here at the beginning, still taking a wedge.

[Lucimo]

10 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Harvey Elliott was hardly poor.

Surely must be thinking of Elliott Bennett or Ward. The latter of which was absolute dogshit, and the former not much better.

[islander200]

14 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Harvey Elliott was hardly poor.

Think he had the most assists in the league when he was here.He was an excellent loan

[TimmyJimmy]

All the faux hype coming from the club about exciting rebuilds, new players fitting the VI style, projects (yawn) is getting really tiresome.

Bottom line ..... we have no money, Venkys don't give a crap, our board is piss poor.

There's a pecking order in all things, football is no exception, except for the once in a lifetime 'golden generation' fluke you have to SPEND to get anywhere and we won't.

We're supposed to get excited about being allowed to watch an event at:

- Glastonbury Pyramid Stage
- Etihad Stadium
- O2 Apollo
- Butlins DJ Sets
- Blackburn Empire Theatre

What's your pick for an enjoyable night out. We're supposed to get excited by an open mic evening at the Dog and Duck!? Really!!?

We're buying no one of note, we're going to sell any prospects that we might have in the Academy and we'll be thrilled and excited to welcome a handful of 35 year old has beens and B List loans.

Another project to get us nowhere.

What happened to my club Venkys? What did you do!!??? WHY!!!!!???????

[joey_big_nose]

23 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Harvey Elliott was hardly poor.

Hah - read it as elliott bennett my bad! Yes Harvey Elliott was great, would obviously take him!

[joey_big_nose]

22 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

We've been dealing in cheap loans and journeyman free agents rather than marquee cash signings (Dack renewed contract, Armstrong, Gallagher, Brereton-Diaz) for the last 5 years and the wage budget hasn't decreased according to the accounts.

Ayala and Downing wouldn't have been cheap either.

There's absolutely no way we're even sniffing the wage bill of that side you listed. Who is the money being spent on!?

I wonder if general wage inflation is an issue... Do any stattos have a link to a graph of how the average wage bill in the Championship has increased over the last 5 years? It would be ideal if there was a way to exclude parachute clubs.

[joey_big_nose]

13 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I wonder if general wage inflation is an issue... Do any stattos have a link to a graph of how the average wage bill in the Championship has increased over the last 5 years? It would be ideal if there was a way to exclude parachute clubs.

To answer my own question I found this... parachute clubs are not excluded, but I suppose an assumption can be made that they roughly net out year on year. So it does suggest that overall wage inflation is not a big issue in last 5 years. Big jump in 2024 but thats not going to impact us as we didn't sign any new contracts in that year... otherwise flat/declining. 

 

I agree that it is very hard to understand how our wage bill has stayed roughly the same over last 5 years when we have gone to as extreme lengths as letting established players run out of contract and signing no established premier league or even top half championship players in the last 5 years. 

Is this a question that has been raised with the club by the fans forum etc? It does seem very suspicious.

Edited April 16 by joey_big_nose

[Ghost7]

On 15/04/2025 at 07:21, lraC said:

In the season 2020/21 we had the following players at the club:

Kaminski, Harwood-Bellis, Branthwaite, Ayala, Mulgrew, Elliott, Downing, Dack, Armstrong and Brereton.

That's 10 players in my opinion, who are more talented, than most of the players amongst this years squad, so 4 years on, we still seem to have the same wage bill apparently, despite the reduction in player quality. I think if you match up the starting line up, in any of the games we have played this season, you would choose most of these players, over those who have actually played, but maybe some would disagree with that.

Granted some of these players were on loan, but apart from one, all have played in the premier league.

Maybe it is me being unkind, but the wage bill is surely distorted in some way, if it is constantly around £25m every season for the last 5. 

 

Yep it's all nonsense. You also had high earners such as the likes of Bradley Johnson, Lewis Holtby and Tom Trybull as squad players. We are being fooled!

[Moptop1]

Heard from a Peterborough supporting mate, we won’t be getting Poko. Birmingham have offered him £30,000 per week.

They contacted his after the recent Final. Seems crazy money. 
 

 

[KentExile]

2 hours ago, Moptop1 said:

Heard from a Peterborough supporting mate, we won’t be getting Poko. Birmingham have offered him £30,000 per week.

They contacted his after the recent Final. Seems crazy money. 
 

 

It is crazy money, but players who are good Championship performers (Travis, Tronstad, Brittan) or have high potential/sell on possibilities (such as Poku, and you could even argue Dolan to the extent that they are similar ages and Dolan has been around for longer at a higher level) can command over £20K/week from Championship  clubs (at least the ones with the funds and ambition to do so)

 

Edited 9 hours ago by KentExile

[Exiled_Rover]

3 hours ago, Moptop1 said:

Heard from a Peterborough supporting mate, we won’t be getting Poko. Birmingham have offered him £30,000 per week.

They contacted his after the recent Final. Seems crazy money. 
 

 

Should have bid for him in January when he was injured with just 6 months left to go on his contract.

That's how canny operators work. Birmingham are flush with cash so they're overpaying him - when you factor in the Stansfield transfer they're going to run foul of the FFP rules eventually. 

[RoverCanada]

On 16/04/2025 at 17:02, joey_big_nose said:

To answer my own question I found this... parachute clubs are not excluded, but I suppose an assumption can be made that they roughly net out year on year. So it does suggest that overall wage inflation is not a big issue in last 5 years. Big jump in 2024 but thats not going to impact us as we didn't sign any new contracts in that year... otherwise flat/declining. 

I agree that it is very hard to understand how our wage bill has stayed roughly the same over last 5 years when we have gone to as extreme lengths as letting established players run out of contract and signing no established premier league or even top half championship players in the last 5 years. 

Is this a question that has been raised with the club by the fans forum etc? It does seem very suspicious.

I've wondered similarly, but, at least for the last couple years, it's that +26% jump in 2024 that probably matters most. Nobody sheds cost-of-living tears for most footballers, but they're not going to accept real terms pay cuts due to recent inflation in a highly competitive labour market... Would definitely be a factor for non-playing staff costs too.

Just taking a simple average, our ~£25m is well-below the 2023-24 is league-wide average of £37m, but that's of course skewed by parachute clubs. I may trial Swiss Ramble's substack to see if he's got a new chart for 2023-24, but we were mid-table in 2022-23, but that's before a 26% average league-wide jump, while we dropped 1.5% to £25.4m (or -2.5% if you exclude the impact of Waggott's deferred pension!). Doing a back-of-the-envelope calc assuming the same distribution of wage budgets excluding us, that alone could have dropped us from 11th in 2022-23 to 21st in 2023-24 (guessing it's less of a drop if I properly tried to account for changes in the wage distribution due to promotions/relegations!).

Our 'other' operating costs oddly swing from year-to-year, but they'll have definitely been hit by recent inflation too; electricity bills most pertinently! 2023-24 reports them at £13.2m vs an average of £8.7m for 2019-20 to 2021-22 (which will be skewed down by Covid)

What counts as the 'budget' can also get a bit wooly. JDT claimed our 'budget' was cut 20%, yet our wage bill was effectively flat and the number of senior players/management increased from 79 to 80. Perhaps 'other' staff costs increased for some reason... meaning a material cut for players (after factoring in departures, new contracts, escalators, etc), but the elephant in the room is obviously the transfer budget, where we swung from a ~£5m net spend to a ~£20m net profit (ultimately reflecting Venky's ceasing to pump money in). I'd bet JDT was having ridiculous arguments about transfer budget promises being dramatically reversed, while the Rovers hierarchy (disingenously!) pointed to the wage budget being maintained...

The Academy can also make it hard to benchmark Rovers' staff costs against other non-parachute payment Championship clubs. For example, we had 211 staff in 2023-24 vs 138 at Preston, largely reflective of us having 71 'Academy football players and management. (Preston's accounts also mention an additional 115 matchday staff (so, not full-time employees), which our accounts don't mention). Now, most of those staff are presumably relatively low-paid (but also need to factor in costs beyond basic salaries!), and apparently grants offset some of those costs (it's not clear to me how those are included in our accounts), but it's definitely a factor.

As we're well-aware, directors' salaries are published in the accounts, but it's certainly opaque enough that you can wonder what the 'true' player wage budget is, as well as 'other' staff salaries (including whatever the hell Suhail is on).

Edited 6 hours ago by RoverCanada