Iraq poll

[den]

I thought now might be a good time to take a sample of opinions of the site members, on the Iraq situation. The question is simple.

Given that, as yet, no WMD's have been found, is the coalition's attack on Iraq justified?

[SouthAussieRover]

Totally unjustified though Ill keep my opinions as to why to myself

[broadsword]

Den:

I think you dropped a bit of a ricket with this thread mate.

You should've created it as a poll only because at the rate we're going we will soon have three jumbo-sized Iraq threads!

[dave birch]

Got to agree with Bryan, den.

Hardly something you'd "vote" on given the circumstances.

[den]

It's quite simple really. Have you seen anything yet, that justifies the war. Some people would argue, that evidence of Saddam's alleged murder and torture of his own people is justification in itself. That the overthrow of his regime is justified because of this.

Other's argue that ONLY discovery of WMD'd will justify such action.

[Tris]

Sorry Den, I'm not convinced this poll is relevant or necessary, or timely or helpful.

So I've voted Bomb Burnley.  So now at least it's helpful.

[adopted scouser]

Totally unjustified though Ill keep my opinions as to why to myself

[Radagast]

What he said.

Well not anymore.

[AlanSheppard]

Voted no as I feel the wider consequences of increased anti-Americanism and Islamic terrorism are not worth it.

[Timmy]

I was always against the war before it started, but history will tell if I was right or wrong. So  I voted for the third option.

[Dr Rich]

It's quite simple really. Have you seen anything yet, that justifies the war. Some people would argue, that evidence of Saddam's alleged murder and torture of his own people is justification in itself. That the overthrow of his regime is justified because of this.

Other's argue that ONLY discovery of WMD'd will justify such action.

Well that's just rubbish, whether or not there are WMD or not is the worst justification for a war IMO.

[blue phil]

Having watched about a million Islamic extremist lunatics yesterday beating their own chests and in some cases mutilating themselves in a way that went out of fashion with fundamentalist Christians centuries ago , I am more convinced than ever that this was a stupid war .

 I'd bet my bottom dollar that Bin Laden and every other religious lunatic will be confident of filling the political void that incompetents like Bush and Blair have not even considered.

  Better a secular extremist bent on keeping power internally than a religious fanatic bent on exporting "God's will".

[den]

It's quite simple really. Have you seen anything yet, that justifies the war. Some people would argue, that evidence of Saddam's alleged murder and torture of his own people is justification in itself. That the overthrow of his regime is justified because of this.

Other's argue that ONLY discovery of WMD'd will justify such action.

Well that's just rubbish, whether or not there are WMD or not is the worst justification for a war IMO.

Which bits rubbish, doc?

[American Rover]

I think the war is justified!

[Shaddy]

Having watched about a million Islamic extremist lunatics yesterday beating their own chests and in some cases mutilating themselves in a way that went out of fashion with fundamentalist Christians centuries ago , I am more convinced than ever that this was a stupid war .

 I'd bet my bottom dollar that Bin Laden and every other religious lunatic will be confident of filling the political void that incompetents like Bush and Blair have not even considered.

  Better a secular extremist bent on keeping power internally than a religious fanatic bent on exporting "God's will".

Spot on blue phil. I spoke about the sensitivity of the Shia topic and got shouted down, but you best believe that this has opened a can of worms. Fundamentalists, extremists now have the relative freedoms to influence the politics of the country. Just how much of that will the U.S tolerate, given that it could result in an Iraq with much in common with it's Islamic revolutionary neighbour Iran? Will they have to be forcefull... perhaps repressive, to quell this movement?

[Dr Rich]

It's quite simple really. Have you seen anything yet, that justifies the war. Some people would argue, that evidence of Saddam's alleged murder and torture of his own people is justification in itself. That the overthrow of his regime is justified because of this.

Other's argue that ONLY discovery of WMD'd will justify such action.

Well that's just rubbish, whether or not there are WMD or not is the worst justification for a war IMO.

Which bits rubbish, doc?

The argument that a WMD discovery would justify the war as opposed to anything else. War was justified, but the not because of the prescence or not of WMD, because Saddam slaughtered most of the population of Najaf with chemical/biological weapons because some of them had the cheek to rise up against him, sure, but if he had done the same with conventional weapons that would be just as bad.

There are a lot of countries out there who have nuclear weapons never mind chemical/biological ones, who are more likely to use them/supply them to terrorists than Saddam was, and he didn't even have any so it seems.

[S15]

im sure the fact such political threads..that turn into nasty argumentative scenarios like this is developing into is why no rovers fans seem to get on.. the the point where we wont sing together and create an atmosphere in the ground!!!

joke by the way before anything nastier develops.  

[broadsword]

So now we have a tie between "Bomb Burnley" and "War Was Justified" - what would Peter Snow make of that?!

[den]

So now we have a tie between "Bomb Burnley" and "War Was Justified" - what would Peter Snow make of that?!

He would probably work out that if Dale Winton's wedding was more important than the iraq war, then I can't believe it's not football is the place to be!

                                               

[rosie]

It does make me wonder.  I know a few weeks ago we were in the middle of a war, but radio 5 in the morning talked of nothing else.  It seemed, this morning, they could talk of nothing other than Phil Tuffnell on "I'm a Celebrity, Get me out of here!".

Similar logic in there somewhere?!  

[pg]

Wasn't Dean Acheson (US secretary of state during the 50's) once quoted as saying that since the average American only spends 10 minutes a day thinking about the rest of the world, that gave the govt. the right to do whatever it liked without worrying about public opinion?

I guess everyone has overloaded on their 10 minutes recently...so it is back to "Big Brother" and Millionaire-game shows.

I know where you are coming from Rosie.  Two weeks ago we saw non-stop video of tanks rolling in, bombs exploding everywhere and dead bodies.

Now when all of the interesting issues come to a head, the world's attention is once again diverted away.  I guess it isn't in the US administration's interest to have the world watching while it divides the riches of Iraq amongst the "coalition of the willing".

Let the people watch their game shows, and in five or so years when we have another war, we'll do it all again (ie non-stop media exposure about how terrible and horrible a certain regime/tryrant is, good days for freedom loving people everywhere etc.)

[FourLaneBlue]

Wasn't Dean Acheson (US secretary of state during the 50's) once quoted as saying that since the average American only spends 10 minutes a day thinking about the rest of the world, that gave the govt. the right to do whatever it liked without worrying about public opinion?

Seeing as less than 20% of Americans actually own a passport it's unlikely they as a nation they will suffer too many tugs at the heartstrings for a country half the world away, and which may as well be on the moon for most of them.  This has been the ultimate TV war.  Invasion through CNN and SKy News.  Mix that with a bit of hypocritical tear jerking image of a boy with his arms blown off and that says it all.  The News stastion were salivating over this war for a year before it even started and were all struck down with a severe case of bloodlust.  Then after reverentially watching the bombs his they suddenly have a conscience because of one boy caught up in it? Talk about force feeding the public what they should and shouldnt feel.

[Guest Kamy100]

Personally I think that the war has been proven to be unjustified.  As of yet we have not found any evidence of weapons of mass destuction.  Also before the war Bush and Blair claimed 'Saddam would use weapons of mass destruction and was a threat to world security'.  Well during the war the allies took over the country and humliated Saddam yet he still did not use these weapons of mass destruction.  

Now don't get me wrong I think that it is great that Saddam has gone because of the atrocities that he committed on his own people, however the war has killed and injured thousands of innocent civilians and it appears that the the issue that the allies went to war on namely Weapons of Mass Destruction have at this stage not been found.

Anyhow now that the war is over, I hope that a new government can be sorted out and then the Allies withdraw and let the Iraqi's get on with Governing their country, weather this happens remains to be seen.

[Drummer Boy]

When it all started, I was not at all sure, but when I watched the general outpouring of relief when the Iraqi population actually believed their beloved leader had gone for good, I came to the view that, for perhaps the wrong reasons, the outcome was good for the people of Iraq. Thay can now protest against the US in relative safety, complain about how the country is being governed without beimg horribly tortured and even, in the near future, elect their own government which may or may not be of a Moslem fundamentalist nature.

The agony of choice has been returned to the cradle of civilisation - I have no doubt there will be the usual cock-ups on the way, but that's democracy.

[Dr Rich]

in the near future, elect their own government which may or may not be of a Moslem fundamentalist nature.

No it won't, the US has clearly stated that a fundamentalist regime like Iran will not be allowed to take place in Iraq even if that's what the Iraqi's want.

Now that's democracy.