Iraq poll

[Rustyman]

in the near future, elect their own government which may or may not be of a Moslem fundamentalist nature.

No it won't, the US has clearly stated that a fundamentalist regime like Iran will not be allowed to take place in Iraq even if that's what the Iraqi's want.

Now that's democracy.  

And sadly it is what a lot of them think they want. History teaches us that when a cruel dictator is gone the people will start to gravitate towards that which the former leader hated the most. (Just look at the nationalist feeling in Yugoslavia post-Tito) Those Shi'ites were savagely repressed by Hussein and now they want to get in with Iran who they see as their real ally, rather than the Brits/Yanks. Some people have no gratitude.

Still not all of the people in Iraq want to be fundamentalists. It's time the Kurds got their own place - they'd be a far better and more reliable ally than the rest of the 'Iraqis'

[Dr Rich]

Only trouble with that is, that your other good allies in Turkey won't be happy, to put it mildly.

[Rustyman]

Only trouble with that is, that your other good allies in Turkey won't be happy, to put it mildly.

F*** 'em then. Who likes them anyway?

[colin]

Not really relevant to Iraq, but interesting notheless:

duplicitous or what?

[Legion]

I thought originally, and i still think that the war was justified.  But, I just know in my heart that the yanks will totally stuff up the peace.  The Kurds deserve support - they won't get it, Religion needs to be kept out of the next Iraqi government - cue an islamic state.   Saddam had to go - but I fear for what follows.

[broadsword]

Just read on the Beeb website that senior sources in Whitehall don't think WMD will be found but they "might find paper documentation".

It also quotes the source as saying that they are sure Saddam did have WMD before the War, but he must've destroyed them.

This is becoming farcical. If the weapons inspectors were derided by Colin Powell as "Inspector Clouseau figures" then what does that make Blair and co. - why did they ever think they could find what Blix and co. couldn't?

I think they'll get Blair over this - can't see him surviving now that Dubya's dropped him like a hot potato.

[Bernard]

I clicked to vote in the poll and got a message saying I'd already voted. Rigged or what!

Unjustified of course, but haven't given up hope that some good might come of it all.

[Morph]

Unjustified, unneccesary and illegal under international law. Laughable that America keeps harping on about bringing terrorists and tyrants to justice when it breaks every international law going - keeping prisoners without charge at Guantanamo Bay for  eighteen months, then selecting four of them at random and telling them "plead guilty and we will lock you up for twenty years, plead innocent and we will execute you". Flagrant violation of it's own constitution and the Geneva Convention. Then invades a country which it knows doesn't have WMD with the intention of removing by force the sovereign head of state, securing Iraq's oil supplies and pandering to the will of the military / industrial complex which bought Bush the White House. Oh, and we can't accuse US soldiers of war crimes either (even though they have certainly perpetrated war crimes in Afganistan and Iraq) because they refuse to join the International Criminal Court unless we grant them carte blanche amnesty from prosecution!

P.S. I voted "no" btw...

[pg]

Don't worry about Mr. Blair Bryan.

With a bit of luck they will be bombing North Korea by the end of the year, so Tony and George can stand shoulder to shoulder on an aircraft carrier somewhere and talk about "defending freedom" etc.

That should help his popularity!

[ABBEY]

they have found some abucusses with poison on the beans.............they are weapons of maths deduction.

put saddam back in control ,ungrateful tossers and then nuke em.

[adopted scouser]

I prefer Kelly Brook's weapons of mass distraction.

[colin]

As an aside:

I've just been dipping into an old favourite book - Hunter S Thompson's "The Great Shark Hunt"

Written in 1979 no less.

His observation on the final solution of the tail end of the Nixon presidency just before Tricky Dicky was impeached and disgraced over the watergate affair was:

" a long term treaty with Russia (arranged by Henry Kissenger) securing Moscow's support of an American invasion, seizure, and terminal occupation of all oil-producing countries in the Middle East. This would not only solve the "energy crisis" and end unemployment immediately by pressing all the idle and able-bodied males into service for the invasion/occupation forces...but it would also crank up the economy to a war-time level and give the Federal government unlimited emergency powers."

Twenty four years too early, but not a bad stab at the reality.

Back to the present day: anyone else wondering where these "ready in 48 hours" WMD have gone to?" And why they were not used?

[Shaddy]

Back to the present day: anyone else wondering where these "ready in 48 hours" WMD have gone to?" And why they were not used?

We were lied to by our governments colin. They never existed. Not only lied to, but collectively commited to an immoral, illegal *crusade* by our governments, in my firm belief, against our will.

How many people still consider it a force of liberation?

You know, I believe many of those that had an opinion either way cannot bring ourselves to discuss Iraq anymore. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, and I have no stomach for the recriminations.

[broadsword]

Back to the present day: anyone else wondering where these "ready in 48 hours" WMD have gone to?"

Saddam says they're either in his sock drawer or in the bathroom cabinet (please try not to leave a mess in the bathroom).

Failing that they might be in the cupboard under the stairs, or Abdul next door may have borrowed them again to help power his lawn mower/ clean the swimming pool out.

[Morph]

Back to the present day: anyone else wondering where these "ready in 48 hours" WMD have gone to?"

Saddam says they're either in his sock drawer or in the bathroom cabinet (please try not to leave a mess in the bathroom).

Failing that they might be in the cupboard under the stairs, or Abdul next door may have borrowed them again to help power his lawn mower/ clean the swimming pool out.

Now that you mention it, I did find half a dozen scud missiles with depleted uranium tipped warheads down the back of the sofa the other week, but I thought they must have just fallen out of my pocket when I was pi**ed. Knew I should never have asked Saddam to feed the cat when I was on holiday, the rascal.

[tenpo]

Against the war. Reinstate Saddam, I say! What a guy. His people love him.

Warning: Sarcasm.

[Shaddy]

Anyone else captivated by this latest twist, with the apparent suicide of Iraq weapons expert David Kelly?

[Simon Says]

Just watch Blair, Hoon and Campbell duck and dive and try to distance themselves as far away as possible from this.

An innocent, decent man caught in a huge battle between New Labour and the BBC.

After his grilling at the hands of the commons commitee and in particular by Labour MP Andrew Mackinlay he looked a broken man. He was put in an intolerable position.

But, by whom?

I am not sure about Blair, but Hoon and Campbell need to look at themelves.

The term "blood on their hands" springs to mind.

[Shaddy]

The BBC have revealed that David Kelly was the source of the "sexed up" dossier claim. The man has, apparently, no inneudo from me, commited suicide. I believe that such an act, if it is linked to the Iraq WMD row, is a truer sign of a man who has stood by his convictions, then another who has merely given us those words, and expected us to drop our accounting of his actions and behaviour.

[blue phil]

An innocent, decent man caught in a huge battle between New Labour and the BBC.

After his grilling at the hands of the commons commitee and in particular by Labour MP Andrew Mackinlay he looked a broken man. He was put in an intolerable position.

Not entirely innocent . He did , after all ,voluntarily enter the murky world of leaking information to the press , even if it was supposed to be "unattributable". Perhaps a man with such a scientific mind should have been able to predict the hostility from gov't circles his actions would precipitate.

During his grilling by the select committee - which is what they are for - I suspect he was not entirely honest about the degree of his own importance to Gilligan's stories.

His was a tragic story but he helped to write it .

[Guest Messiah_4k]

wow that poll is close!

[FourLaneBlue]

An innocent, decent man caught in a huge battle between New Labour and the BBC.

After his grilling at the hands of the commons commitee and in particular by Labour MP Andrew Mackinlay he looked a broken man. He was put in an intolerable position.

Not entirely innocent . He did , after all ,voluntarily enter the murky world of leaking information to the press , even if it was supposed to be "unattributable". Perhaps a man with such a scientific mind should have been able to predict the hostility from gov't circles his actions would precipitate.

During his grilling by the select committee - which is what they are for - I suspect he was not entirely honest about the degree of his own importance to Gilligan's stories.

His was a tragic story but he helped to write it .

Yes I agree with you there Phil.

Dr Kelly did seem to get caught up in events which he couldn't control and ended up taking his own life. However it was not an honourable way for him to leave this world. By taking his own life he has passed the grief onto his widow and family who are left to face the outside world in his absence. Kelly's widow, Janice Kelly, has now had to have meetings with the likes of Geoff Hoon after her husband just left her to it. The tragedy of Kelly's death is more on the suffering inflicted on those living by it than that of Kelly himself. With suicide he acheived release, yet his family are not granted that easing of stress.

As someone who has seen the effect a suicide by a father had on a friend and her family, I have every sympathy with Kelly's surviving family.

[blue phil]

Too true . It's a tragic tale all round . The bloke must have been in a pretty desperate condition but in a years time how many people will remember who he was or why he killed himself ? Apart from his family that is ... It would have been more decent and worthy of him to tough it out - or even tell the whole truth .

[colin]

Just thinking "outside the box" (yuk) as they say.

Has it yet been proved that Dr Kelly killed himself?

[Paul]

That's been in my mind since the day he was found colin. As it's never been raised by the media I've assumed it was suicide............